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Tanks - The backbone of a successful group
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With the latest stream having revealed Tank related skills, I believe it is time to finally speak about one of the main classes (in my opinion at least) that exist in MMOs.
Tanks. What many may think of as a boring class (for those DD’s out there, that believe that doing damage is the be all and end all of a game), requires much skill, patience and brain power. Not that any other class does not also require the same attributes in the person behind the character, but the difference between a good tank and a bad tank can make or break the game, as far as any group activities are concerned. The same goes for clerics, but I will not speak to that class, as it is not the one that I plan on focusing on (at least in this discussion).
Also known as Meat Shields (a title that some people despise, I personally find it quite humorous), their main purpose in the game (if the game is properly built), is damage mitigation and absorption. They redirect enemy attacks or attention toward themselves in order to protect other characters or units. Since this role often requires them to suffer large amounts of damage, they rely on large amounts of vitality/health (health points) or armor, healing by other party members (this is where having a skillful cleric on your side is important), evasiveness and misdirection, or self regeneration.
What is the role of the tank? Literally, to protect and serve. Protecting the players that are low-armor or low-health classes most of the times. That does not mean that they cannot also protect other tanks and play in a system of main tank/off tank style. The role of a tank is typically to survive an oncoming attack, and then ensure that they are the target of the incoming attack. It then falls upon the healer (in large-scale play, often specifically assigned to the role, with spells specializing with high healing output over one or two targets) to restore the tank's health so he does not die and allow him or her to take the next attack.
How do tanks do that? They most often have skills that increase enmity towards them. Aggro skills, taunt, threat inducing, or however else they may be called in the variety of games that exist out there. That means that they have skills specifically oriented to draw in the target of either monsters, mobs, bosses or even other players, and in some cases lock that target on to them for a certain amount of time (Lineage2). Having said that, that DOES NOT always mean that agro cannot be lost, to either random agro techniques that bosses or monsters may have been built in to them, or skills by players that may break altered states. Another basic attribute that tanks SHOULD have (but not always do), are interrupt skills. What are these?
· Stuns. All kinds of stuns.
· Knockdown skills are another flavor of interruption mechanics.
· Leash, drag, pull, chain, lure (so many names for the same skill). Pulls target to you, interrupts casting, immobilizes, slows.
Tanks are typically central to group play, and a large amount of responsibility is placed on the tank. Often a tank's death will cause the monsters to overrun the party as they cannot cope with the magnitude of incoming damage.
Are all tanks the same? IF ONLY that was the case, I would NOT be spending the time writing this post. Every game does something different with its classes. A little nuance, a different flavor, an alternate spin to the basic skills.
But the main aspects of a tank (a proper tank) remain the same: You must have enough health to survive the amount of damage you will take, you must have ways to mitigate that damage (block abilities, parry) and the capability (and this is where skill comes into play at times, to overall AVOID the incoming damage, when it is possible. Just because you rolled a tank class, does not mean you can sit there like a lug and take any kind of damage thrown at you. If you are at a boss fight and KNOW that this boss is getting ready to stomp on you with its foot and do immense amounts of damage, do everyone a favor: step to the left or right and avoid that stomp! Yes, on occasion, the person playing the tank must use their brain. Sorry about that folks.
I’m not going to sit here and go through every single game that is out there and break down every kind of tank that has ever existed and its pros and cons. I don’t have the time and you won’t have the patience to read it. If you have played enough games (not just MMOs) you will know the options and variability that is out there and can judge for yourself on the following skills.
As stated at the beginning of this very long and drawn out post already, we got a glimpse of what some of the tank skills (hopefully, not all of them, are going to look like), in Ashes. Those are:
· Builds a wall to control the battlefield. – Sounds great, in theory. But what kind of a wall? Anivia style wall from LoL? Jarvan style crater (also from LoL)? Or something entirely new. Will it be a 3sided wall, allowing for some escape or will it 4-sided blocking all avenues of escape (unless a leap skill will exist to jump over it? Can it be placed in any direction of the controllers choosing, and it will collision play a part in it? Can the tank still lasso enemies thru that wall (while some may think that would be awesome! It would also seriously break the concept of the wall)
· Can lasso enemies to themselves. – A typical, well needed skill for tanks and one of the most hated probably from others (just as you think that you have gotten away, you get yanked back to the tank, and the pain continues). But! What kind of a range are we talking about? Can it be avoided? If the other classes have a form of a dodge or avoidance skill (mage and their illusion/mirror skill, assassins and rangers ALWAYS have some form of an ultimate evasion or a dodge skill), does that mean that they can all in all just avoid the pull? Will most definitely make for some interesting pvp, once the details are ironed out.
·
They can
taunt. – Well…thank the gods of Ashes for that! Imagine a tank, that couldn’t
taunt. It would be almost like… a summoner that can’t summon, or a healer that
can’t heal. :facepalm:
Single target, aoe, proximity or directional. Well, a tank should be able to do
all of those taunts. Just sayin’
· They can jump forward (charge ability) – Now this one has me scratching my head. Not that I don’t understand it, but it seems to be a mixed interpretation. Jumping forward would allow for jumping over targets, avoiding collision issues, avoiding LoS problems. Awesome! But then it says charge ability… that tells me that it involves a burst of speed (a dash, increased speed for short duration), but, without losing contact with the ground. Well, which is it? Tell them to make up their minds and then come on back! Cause right now, this is just confusing and can be left to much interpretation.
· They can shield cover to do damage mitigation for party members. – I don’t know about you, but when reading this, I am getting an image in my head from LOTR from the scene of the Battle of the Army Armies, with the dwarves all hunkering down into a turtle formation. Is that what this is supposed to be? Cause, I can’t tell. And if it is, what is going to be the area that can be covered? Is it going to involve any other special effects from the shield bearer to “cover” the area of the party members such as raising the shield up? Or, am I just reading too much into this, and it will be nothing more than a case of stepping in front of the incoming damage and taking the hit for the person you are protecting? (similar to stepping in front of Caitlyn’s ultimate to take the hit for the person that Caitlyn had in target to begin with – yes, another LoL reference, I have played too much of it, to not make those)
· Ultimate: They can super jump and then AOE lasso. – Well, that reminds me of the Templar skill from Aion, Illusion chains. In appearance any way. But how many targets will the AOE encompass. 2?10?over9000? Will it be in a cone? Will it be from all around the Templar casting the skill? Will it be a set distance from the initial target (as in, target and all enemy targets within x meters distance, will be lasso’ed) Questions that need to be addressed!
· Utility: They have vision cast to see what enemies are beyond the normal range of vision – This is just an iffy statement to me in its entirety. But I will leave that for now.
And before anyone jumps out and says “The game is still in early development”… Just don’t. I do know that. What I am hoping to initiate here is a fruitful discussion amongst peers on thoughts and ideas regarding the already stated Tank classes and how these may or may not be interpreted properly and how they could be altered, should any alterations ever occur.
Thank you for the time that you took to read this. Cheers my darlings!
Comments
Although I'll play as a Ranger/Rogue for myself, you could say that if I were to do anything else, it'd be a tank, 'cause I hate to be the one grabbed
It's the tanks I run to with the stray mobs that aggro me when no one else is paying attention.
There is more to a tank then just being beat on. Anyone can cast a spell or shoot an arrow but not just anyone can be a good tank and coordinate the abilities he needs to use.
I guess it's a mind set like all classes.
I see all to often, as you mentioned, during raids, people forgetting that everyone has their role. And I dare say that tanks and clerics carry the most burden, as when something goes wrong, the blame always falls to them. Mostly because, people never want to admit their faults.
Not saying that at times the tank or cleric may not be at fault, but in most occasions, the blame is due to a stray DD that didn't do something that they were supposed to.
As you very well said, anyone can cast a spell, shoot an arrow, blindly bash on a mob, but it is a good player (regardless of the class that they are playing), that will make their character a worthy player in the game. And as always, with the weight that falls into the tank, most of the times people don't want that responsibility, and so they opt for a class with less of a role to play.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/34060/information-pax-tank#latest
I really like the Tanks skills and although they are typical of a tank they work really well with combos with other classes (of course PAX trials will enlighten us more).
Remember aswell the Tank in the stream is a specific type of Tank for PAX.
Not all tanks will have the same skill tree and weapon types.
Also the skills for tanks at Pax are primary archetypes only. Secondary archetype augments have not been included.
Good job, tanks are defo an important role and shine best when the team knows what there limits are.
1 Pure-Tank ( Tank/Tank ) = Classical Tank, more consistency, moderate versatility
1- 2 Primary-Tank-Hybrid ( Tank/ X ) = Viable Tank Role ,but slightly less Consistency
1- 2 ( maybe 3 ? ) Secondary-Hybrid-Tanks ( X /Tank ) = Viable Tank Role, but
more versatility, and moderate ( lesser ) Consistency.
my guess is the "X /Tank & Tank/ X " Hybrids will have to " Tank-Swap " more often ?
And this leads me to suggest the Raid-size limit ( if applicable ? )
Which might be five or six.
( NOTE: this is inferring Bard can't Heal ... they might ? But not most likely )
2 Hybrid-Primary Tanks ( Tank/ X )
2 Hybrid Primary Cleric ( Healer/ X ) maybe vice-versa ?
2 DPS ... which could / must have Tank as their Secondary ( X /Tank ) ?
OR
( worse-case scenario below )
3 Hybrid-Secondaries ( X /Tank )
; preffered DPS-Archetype as Primary, BUT can change
2 or 3 Secondary Healer ( X /Cleric )
; preffered Cleric as Primary & Secondary , BUT can change
1 DPS (possibly)
In short, the Worse-case Scenario is a Flexible Dungeon Build that may vary depending on the Boss fights
Because i think " Epic Bosses " are the Equivalent to a " World Bosses " . And there seems to be many of those throughout the Region(s) of the Map - based on their YouTube Video: Node Part 1 ( in the intro )
( which btw hoping that Map is bigger than what it looks - Similar, if not bigger, than
DarkFall: Rise of Agon's Map. Such as each Region being relatively the size of the Main Island ... From what i hear, i think i takes roughly 4 hours to reach to the other end of the island without PvP / PvE confrontations )
http://wiki.riseofagon.info/map/#-6.140554782450295%7C-7.20703125
i.e. this island ( above ) = 1 Node's Zone ... if not bigger
Lmfao, the message i sent you was the incomplete version - i sent the wrong one
But i edited it though
Tanks are together with healers the heart of a proper party. And as someone already mentioned, its not as simple as just running in and letting the monsters hit on you. Good tank has to watch over the whole party, what they are doing, how capable they are, is their gear good enough to pull more mobs or its better to take it carefully, is any dumb DD getting into trouble on the side pulling random agro? And most importantly, is your healer safe?
And PVP with a tank is gonna be a lot of fun, since all abilities are going to work the same way be it pvp or pve, cant wait for those group fights where a proper tank will be useful and will have his place and role on the battlefield - tanks will not be left out of pvp parties.
I am a tank in my heart and i will play this class for ever because i enjoy the role and gameplay very very much
#Ta...#MeatShields4Lyfe
In other games, Tanks have defensive skills that can be cast on party members or the entire party (not unlike the already mentioned mitigation skill for party members), but they require the tank being in group to cast. Just to mention a few:
Bodyguard (Aion) -For 30s, decreases damage by 100% and receive 75% of Attack damage inflicted on a group member within 25m whenever they receive attack)
Empyrean Providence (Aion) -Creates a protective shield for 15s that has a 100% chance of blocking damage each time the caster and up to 6 allies within a 30m radius receive all attack. In addition, increases Stun, Knock Back, Stumble, Spin, and Aether's Hold Resists by 1,000 (The protective shield blocks 50% of the damage received per attack).
Party Ultimate Defence (Lineage2) - All damage inflicted on party members is transferred to templar.
If skills like these exist in Ashes, they would make the need of a Templar even greater in group situations, regardless of the nature of the group.
But it remains to be seen.
First off there has always been hybrid healers and off tank classes. Everyone will have the choice of which road to follow and they will know if they can offer to be the main tank/healer in any raid or dungeon situation. If they don't know they will soon find out from experience when they're not invited in that capacity again. A person's play style has much to say how effective his/her abilities are.
As far as raid size and the number of tanks or healers needed would depend on the nature of the raid itself. Not every party in a raid needs a tank or a healer as a constant whether it is PvP or PvE. Everything is situational.
1. A tank should be a tank. Clear role definition. He should be able to take a lot of punishment and make mobs really mad at him. He should not be able to heal himself or push enough dps to make other healers or dds obsolete.
2. Tanking should involve more than standing in front of the group and pushing two or three buttons. Tanking should be just as engaging as killing stuff or healing/buffing your companions.
3. This one they may actually have to look at: There should not just be one viable tank class, just as there should not be just one viable healing class. Currently the dedicated tank is... well, the tank. And the dedicated healer is the cleric. With the dual-class system there certainly is some variety, but at the end of the day you may need a "real" tank or cleric to clear endgame content.
2. I completely agree and I think the devs do as well. Them making the tanks battlefield control masters seems like it will make theme have to actively pay attention the battlefield ando having abilities to modify the battlefield (such as walls) really adds a depth of game play to Tanks not really seen in other games.
3. I think the devs are developing the game so that hybrids will be very competitive and relevant in all content. I don't think we will see only pure Tank/Tank and Cleric/Cleric doing endgame content, but If that is indeed the case then the devs would need to change some things... I imagine pures will probably be the go to for min/maxers but I do not believe the devs will make it so that pures are the only viable route to take at endgame.
Having a deeps roll a tank just to get dungeon runs has always annoyed me, as has having tanks who think speed runs are the only way to go now. However, back to the OP:
Wall -- Don't care. How does it function? How well does it function? Is it similar to a cone, wherein folk need to know its boundaries, and stay the heck behind them?
Lasso/charge -- Whether being able to charge toward, or pull an opponent to you, is a major choice for this class. In one, you're pulling one mob to you, while letting the rest run up, which gives your healzor a bit of time to start HoTting you. If the latter, then you're automagically putting yourself in the middle of a bunch of mobs; healzor must have a different response.
Taunt -- Yep, must always have a way to pull agro off your pitiful little healzor, right? Taunt is a given, I think, a must-have.
Turtle power -- Mechanics schmecanics, just please use it! Your lowly healzor is begging for help while keeping deeps alive cuz they're standing in fire! Seriously, I don't have any preference, I just want this ability to be used. Tks.
Ultimate -- Hrm. So, super jump/lasso to round up multiple groups? Ok, healzor get those HoTs and long/slow heals ready to go, make sure your mana's up!
*cough* Is it obvious I've got a biased viewpoint on all this, lol?
I see it working if Summoners who choose tank as their secondary have a summon that can fill the role of the tank. That would be cool. Like the Warlock Voidwalker from WOW back in the day.
Im hoping a similar ability would be available to a summoner/tank character.