Tanks - The backbone of a successful group

ArchivedUser

IThrowSexyParties said:

Ultimates were very handy in Aion. It gave players a handy escape/attack option in pvp. DP food had a 30min/1hr cooldown could be crafted/sold so it served to establish an economy in the game. Adding options is good. Taking them away is often counter productive.

Being a long time Aion player (still playing it), Ulties just as in many games are meant to be used as game changing abilities. Just for that perfect moment of changing the course of a battle. Yes, I agree with @Eragale that they can easily be abused, but they are also very much needed, as you have hinted to.

ArchivedUser

@Roseeli

The term " Ultimate " in video games always makes me feel cringe inside ; it reminds me of Tekken & Street Fighter, it gets predictable. Whereas Super Smash Bros ... competitively, you'll never see Ultimates ( only Specials ) and thus,  more creativity in Skill / Ability Combos 

Despite this being an MMO .. it'll definitely bring the possibility of their being a Meta ... or rather somewhat, depending on how its executed. But its simple, when i hear the Term, " Ultimate Ability " it'll obviously be something i should " squeeze " into my other re-occuring abilities - mainly because it'll do more damage.

Bright side is, its Pre-Alpha & PAX ...  so they might consider keeping it.
( hopefully not   )
Lols, they most likely will have positive feedback from it because ... well PAX is the earliest gameplay anyone is going to get - the FeedBack will be good because Players can finally have a " Feel " of Combat  

(Hence: decreasing the chances of "Ultimates" staying ... but that will ultimately be decided on how its executed ... no pun intended  )

ArchivedUser

Area control is one of the most important things especially in pve when it comes to tanking. Good tank knows where, when,how and how many mobs and bosses to pull without putting other group members in danger. Badly lured boss can trap other group members in a spot where they can't evade bosses attacks which will result in a wipe. It is also crucial for tank to understand boss mechanics so he can time his skills and area control properly.

ArchivedUser

Roseeli said:

Sojiro1500 said:

Roseeli said:·      

·         They can taunt. – Well…thank the gods of Ashes for that! Imagine a tank, that couldn’t taunt. It would be almost like… a summoner that can’t summon, or a healer that can’t heal. :facepalm: "

Answers/opinions:

Tuant - outside of tuant swapping with another tank, I personally think that with the proper tools (threat/enmity/etc,) an exceptional tank shouldn't have to use tuant very often. Back in Van WoW for exactly I didn't use tuant but maybe 5 total times prior to max lvl raiding. I've always felt that if you need tuant to hold aggro your doing threat inefficiently, IMO of course.

In cases where you have many mobs attacking the group, a mass taunt skill or area threat skill can be very useful. Especially, in raid situations, where you may have to control minions along with the main boss, and you may not have the luxury or time to switch to those minions. In a case like that, a mass taunt would do the trick of pulling the initial aggro onto yourself so that once that is done, you can proceed into the proper controlling of said minions. Just one example however.

I agree that tanks should have a tuant ability at their disposal, I just think that too many players rely on it too heavily when if they got better at threat/enmity/etc they wouldn't need it much other than those few moments that arise from time to time. Just like the example you gave.

ArchivedUser

Zastro said:

1. Depending how he builds and what secondary he picks up, a Tank primary could be a viable self healer and damage dealer. Probably not as good as a cleric healer or pure dps, but viable still.
2. I completely agree and I think the devs do as well. Them making the tanks battlefield control masters seems like it will make theme have to actively pay attention the battlefield ando having abilities to modify the battlefield (such as walls) really adds a depth of game play to Tanks not really seen in other games.
3. I think the devs are developing the game so that hybrids will be very competitive and relevant in all content. I don't think we will see only pure Tank/Tank and Cleric/Cleric doing endgame content, but If that is indeed the case then the devs would need to change some things... I imagine pures will probably be the go to for min/maxers but I do not believe the devs will make it so that pures are the only viable route to take at endgame.

1. Of course the specialisation should play an important role in how the class plays. What I meant is that a tank/cleric should not have enough healing power to keep himself alive in group play nor should a tank/mage do enough damage to make having a damage dealer obsolete. I am aware that especially the dps-question is important for tanks because they still may have to do some solo stuff and that can be quite tedious without enough dps.
3. One possible option would be to not allow "double-combos" like tank/tank. Have the secondary class be different from your primary class and balancing hybrids becomes a bit easier because you aren't quite as bound to min/max as much.
And you have to balance the endgame around those min/maxers or else it becomes too easy for the more "competitive players".

ArchivedUser

Kainnee said:

Zastro said:

1. Depending how he builds and what secondary he picks up, a Tank primary could be a viable self healer and damage dealer. Probably not as good as a cleric healer or pure dps, but viable still.
2. I completely agree and I think the devs do as well. Them making the tanks battlefield control masters seems like it will make theme have to actively pay attention the battlefield ando having abilities to modify the battlefield (such as walls) really adds a depth of game play to Tanks not really seen in other games.
3. I think the devs are developing the game so that hybrids will be very competitive and relevant in all content. I don't think we will see only pure Tank/Tank and Cleric/Cleric doing endgame content, but If that is indeed the case then the devs would need to change some things... I imagine pures will probably be the go to for min/maxers but I do not believe the devs will make it so that pures are the only viable route to take at endgame.

1. Of course the specialisation should play an important role in how the class plays. What I meant is that a tank/cleric should not have enough healing power to keep himself alive in group play nor should a tank/mage do enough damage to make having a damage dealer obsolete. I am aware that especially the dps-question is important for tanks because they still may have to do some solo stuff and that can be quite tedious without enough dps.
3. One possible option would be to not allow "double-combos" like tank/tank. Have the secondary class be different from your primary class and balancing hybrids becomes a bit easier because you aren't quite as bound to min/max as much.
And you have to balance the endgame around those min/maxers or else it becomes too easy for the more "competitive players".

1. I agree.
2. I am not sure I would want to go that far. Doubling down on your archetype should be an option for those who just want to do and be what they originally chose. Forcing people to hybrid seems wrong. 
There will always be min/maxing. Someone will eventually find the "best" primary/secondary combo for anow archetype. The best way to balance out min/maxing is to make it so that how much damage you do doesn't always determine if you win a fight. Strategy and coordination should be more important. So if a team of min/maxers attacked a team who are well synergied with each other and better at strategizing then (all other variables equal) the min/maxers should lose or have a hard pressed time to win. 
That's how I think it should work at least