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Pvp concern

What is stop a group of people, just harrashing people, by induvidualy attack people. There might be a group of friends or even a guild, that sends out a person or 2, when someone enters their "turf". And when you come back, they send a new. etc etc. And you are left with defending your self, and getting tagged/flagged yourself. Or just standing there like a pussy, and get beaten
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Comments

  • There will be a "corruption system"  along with a falling system, that when a player attacks another who is not flagged for PVP, the attacker gets a status called "corruption". As they get more corruption, they weaken, their PvP effectiveness decreases and when they have a certain amount of corruption, they drop gear up death 

    Now this may not fully deter attacks on players but it will make people have to weigh the pros and cons beforehand.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    There is the corruption mechanic explained above however there are other ways around the issue.
    You could just avoid what they call "their turf". If valuable stuff is there, other high level players will want it and have issues with them.
  • Or putting the above 2 comments together and or working with friends or hiring protection when you travel.   There are many ways to be sneaky also without using stealth,
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    @insomnia ... we know quite a bit about how the world PvP system will work in Ashes, including the flagging and corruption system designed to discourage the kind of behavior you describe.

    https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/33075/information-world-pvp/p1
  • I wonder if I kidnap a dwarf and toss him over a cliff, if that will give me corruption. Or perhaps, hide on his ship, and *accidentally* knock him over the side. I technically did not attack him.
     B)
  • We used to do stuff like this in Arma. Kidnap people. Killing them brings a bounty. So we drop them off cliffs or buildings. No bounty then, as they technically plummeted to their death. 
    Every now and again, if we were feeling a bit mean spirited, we would not kill them at all. Just blindfold/ziptie their hands. Fly them out to the middle of the ocean and leave them there. Good luck getting back. You'll either kill yourself and lose all of your stuff, or you'll choose the hour + it will take you to swim back.  >:)
  • Did they say whether you will still lose exp and durability even if you don't fight back? 
  • If you don't fight back you receive the normal death penalty.
    If you do fight back, you receive half of the normal death penalty.
    So, if you want the least death penalty, best to fight back.
  • I just hope there won't be some shenanigans with Cleric/Cleric and some spell ends being like mind control... And he makes you suicide by jumping off a cliff
  • I wonder if I kidnap a dwarf and toss him over a cliff, if that will give me corruption. Or perhaps, hide on his ship, and *accidentally* knock him over the side. I technically did not attack him.
     B)
    Spill his ale and see how much corruption you get!
  • Dygz said:
    If you don't fight back you receive the normal death penalty.
    If you do fight back, you receive half of the normal death penalty.
    So, if you want the least death penalty, best to fight back.
    Sooo I still lose xp and my stuff gets damaged because someone else has a desire to grieve??? They have this in BDO and it dose not work. Trolls are going to be trolls plain and simple. 

    Now if you switch that to no xp or gear damage to the person being ganked then yah sure whatever kill me all you want but if a troll knows hes costing me xp and money to repair my gear he's just going to keep at it and grind back his corruption later as he's farming for gear or something. Saw it happen all the time in BDO.

    True i could fight back but now the problem is I still have to repair my gear. I still lose XP. I still have no chance to beat said person because he way out levels me only now I flag and he takes no corruption. 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    I think OP is saying what's to stop a 300 player guild from taking turns harassing a player one by one minimizing the karma penalty.  Say because they want your freehold.  

    Or if you think about it potentially 1500 alts taking turns. If they really really want that land. They would never suffer the effects of the karma system. 

    Which I've seen done. 

    Though I've also seen 1 guy harrass an entire guild and pay him taxes and/or buy him a new place to live. 
  • Waysm said:
    I just hope there won't be some shenanigans with Cleric/Cleric and some spell ends being like mind control... And he makes you suicide by jumping off a cliff

    OMG....I had such fun with this in Arathi Basin (WoW Battleground). Loved that Priest!
  • Volomon said:
    I think OP is saying what's to stop a 300 player guild from taking turns harassing a player one by one minimizing the karma penalty.  Say because they want your freehold.  

    Or if you think about it potentially 1500 alts taking turns. If they really really want that land. They would never suffer the effects of the karma system. 

    Which I've seen done. 

    Though I've also seen 1 guy harrass an entire guild and pay him taxes and/or buy him a new place to live. 
    Well AoC is a community game, so maybe get a few stealthed friends to help? I know I for one would be up for a good ambush!
  • I don't know 365 days, 24 hrs a day against a guild that's maybe 2 minutes away.  It's not about competing at that point it's about how often you get killed.  I don't want to give away to much of my history but it doesn't turn out well for the victim.  In all likelihood any caravans this individual has coming out of the house will be sacked, any materials he tries to bring home, any parties he throws will all be ruined.

    You can absolutely go the route of guild vs guild or whatever, but you have to keep in mind in this scenario this individual has set down his freehold next to a large guild who has freeholds stacked together closely knit.  Eventually your guilds going to go home, their guild is already home.
  • Have to win a siege before you can destroy a freehold.
    Other people can't take over your freehold.

  • Dygz said:
    If you don't fight back you receive the normal death penalty.
    If you do fight back, you receive half of the normal death penalty.
    So, if you want the least death penalty, best to fight back.
    Sooo I still lose xp and my stuff gets damaged because someone else has a desire to grieve??? They have this in BDO and it dose not work. Trolls are going to be trolls plain and simple. 

    Now if you switch that to no xp or gear damage to the person being ganked then yah sure whatever kill me all you want but if a troll knows hes costing me xp and money to repair my gear he's just going to keep at it and grind back his corruption later as he's farming for gear or something. Saw it happen all the time in BDO.

    True i could fight back but now the problem is I still have to repair my gear. I still lose XP. I still have no chance to beat said person because he way out levels me only now I flag and he takes no corruption. 
    If you don't fight back, your attacker will gain corruption. When the attacker dies, they will suffer 3x the normal death penalty and possibly suffer gear destruction.

    You could fight back and lose - and you would not have as much xp debt or durability loss as you would if you don't fight back.
  • insomnia said:
    What is stop a group of people, just harrashing people, by induvidualy attack people. There might be a group of friends or even a guild, that sends out a person or 2, when someone enters their "turf". And when you come back, they send a new. etc etc. And you are left with defending your self, and getting tagged/flagged yourself. Or just standing there like a pussy, and get beaten
    - join a guild and have friends help you (this is a MMO and not a single player)
    - use your coin (if you have hermit lifestyle you must have grinded some) and hire some help, or pay the attackers off.
    - stop be a scrub, get some skillz and fight back

     B) 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Dygz said:
    If you don't fight back you receive the normal death penalty.
    If you do fight back, you receive half of the normal death penalty.
    So, if you want the least death penalty, best to fight back.
    Sooo I still lose xp and my stuff gets damaged because someone else has a desire to grieve??? They have this in BDO and it dose not work. Trolls are going to be trolls plain and simple. 



    Trolls are people that are joking. People who want to kill you definitely aren't joking.

    And yeah, your stuff gets stolen and your house burned. Your farm animals end up on grill.

    Munch munch... and tasty they will be.

     B) 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    Dygz said:
    Have to win a siege before you can destroy a freehold.
    Other people can't take over your freehold.

    You might be in the wrong thread no one's talking about destroying a freehold. 

    You guys are missing the point it's flying so far over your heads. The actual answer clearly young guys,  is when you have something where they circumvent the system like this op you'd have to report them.  Even in the most hardcore games I've seen suspended accounts due to organized raids like this.  This isn't even "hardcore".  Cause if there willing to by pass the system their likely to avoid guild warfare and the like. 

    A military style harrass and raid isn't going to be repelled by "fight them".  I've seen entire guilds band together and get beat.  I have little hope of 1 helping a lone player.  Think you guys are expecting everyone to be at your level. People who harrass like this tend to be tier 1.  Military style organizations often with military leaders. 

    However that's all the fun of it. I've never seen a guild offer any real resistance though for 1 member too much trouble. Some game people would fight but this game puts resources at risk, do you put all you guilds caravans, ships, and city at risk for 1 guy. They'd more likely drop the poor guy from the guild. 
  • Volomon said:
    I think OP is saying what's to stop a 300 player guild from taking turns harassing a player one by one minimizing the karma penalty.  Say because they want your freehold.  

    Or if you think about it potentially 1500 alts taking turns. If they really really want that land. They would never suffer the effects of the karma system. 

    Which I've seen done. 

    Though I've also seen 1 guy harrass an entire guild and pay him taxes and/or buy him a new place to live. 
    Well AoC is a community game, so maybe get a few stealthed friends to help? I know I for one would be up for a good ambush!
    same
  • insomnia said:
    What is stop a group of people, just harrashing people, by induvidualy attack people. There might be a group of friends or even a guild, that sends out a person or 2, when someone enters their "turf". And when you come back, they send a new. etc etc. And you are left with defending your self, and getting tagged/flagged yourself. Or just standing there like a pussy, and get beaten
    u.  Most towns are going to be organized and will need crafters as well as gatherers.  Organization and community come into play and there will be people  to help protect and defend them.  The townships will depend on this.

    If you go solo  into hostile territory you either go prepared with protection or very stealthily.   It's up to you.   Use common sense!  
  • Dygz said:
    If you don't fight back you receive the normal death penalty.
    If you do fight back, you receive half of the normal death penalty.
    So, if you want the least death penalty, best to fight back.
    Sooo I still lose xp and my stuff gets damaged because someone else has a desire to grieve??? They have this in BDO and it dose not work. Trolls are going to be trolls plain and simple. 

    Now if you switch that to no xp or gear damage to the person being ganked then yah sure whatever kill me all you want but if a troll knows hes costing me xp and money to repair my gear he's just going to keep at it and grind back his corruption later as he's farming for gear or something. Saw it happen all the time in BDO.

    True i could fight back but now the problem is I still have to repair my gear. I still lose XP. I still have no chance to beat said person because he way out levels me only now I flag and he takes no corruption. 
    We actually had a very long discussion about this a couple of months ago. I'd like to make a point, now, that I made then.

    Yes, we'll have griefers when the game launches. Yes, I will be one of the ones eating the higher death penalty, in order to force said griefers into corruption; thereby reducing their stats and giving them a red dot on the map that shows their location and shows their status as a bounty.

    I expect that once this is no longer fun, they'll depart like rats from a sinking ship. I estimate this to take a couple of months.

    BDO had the "karma" situation which could easily be overcome by guilds grouping together and farming. Their karma situation sucked; recently, apparently, they've overhauled it to make it more painful. I believe the corruption system will be a better bet, and I'm willing to stake my little carebear self on it ... over and over and over again, if need be.
  • We used to do stuff like this in Arma. Kidnap people. Killing them brings a bounty. So we drop them off cliffs or buildings. No bounty then, as they technically plummeted to their death. 
    Every now and again, if we were feeling a bit mean spirited, we would not kill them at all. Just blindfold/ziptie their hands. Fly them out to the middle of the ocean and leave them there. Good luck getting back. You'll either kill yourself and lose all of your stuff, or you'll choose the hour + it will take you to swim back.  >:)
    No offense there but I would consider all of this a real d*ck move, imho. It's one thing to PK someone but to completely waste another person's time in this manner is a real negative. This is first and foremost a GAME and should be a fun experience for everyone, not just some ********** out to bully others for their own enjoyment. People seem to forget that there is an actual person attached to that avatar you are screwing with.
  • I am of the same thinking as @Isende. I plan to not fight back when green, and let anyone who bothers to try and pk eat the corruption. During alpha we will be testing different workarounds to close any loopholes like: First high level guy attacks but stops before killing non-combatant, lower level friend steps in for killing blow to eat corruption score. Dragging monsters with aoe attacks onto non-combatants. Attacking, then letting combat drop, then using environment to kill character to avoid corruption. And so on. Couple scenarios involving cliffs. Going to be fun times trying to find out the exploits they will try to get around the penalties for dickish behavior, and submitting reports to get them fixed.
  • We used to do stuff like this in Arma. Kidnap people. Killing them brings a bounty. So we drop them off cliffs or buildings. No bounty then, as they technically plummeted to their death. 
    Every now and again, if we were feeling a bit mean spirited, we would not kill them at all. Just blindfold/ziptie their hands. Fly them out to the middle of the ocean and leave them there. Good luck getting back. You'll either kill yourself and lose all of your stuff, or you'll choose the hour + it will take you to swim back.  >:)
    No offense there but I would consider all of this a real d*ck move, imho. It's one thing to PK someone but to completely waste another person's time in this manner is a real negative. This is first and foremost a GAME and should be a fun experience for everyone, not just some ********** out to bully others for their own enjoyment. People seem to forget that there is an actual person attached to that avatar you are screwing with.
    Have you ever played arma? It's like the entire point of the game? There are drug cartels who run coke, meth, pot, heroin, guns...the cops in the game are actual people. Picture a sims call of duty. The entire point of the game is based upon villains vs cops. Villains, which are comprised of rebels, cartels and terrorists, try to avoid cops so they don't get arrested and other cartels who are going to kidnap you and hold you for ransom. SMH
    The GAME IS FUN and those scenarios I described are exactly how the game is intended to be played. Even the moderators/admins that run the servers will tell you that. I suggest you never play the game.
  • No offense there but I would consider all of this a real d*ck move, imho. It's one thing to PK someone but to completely waste another person's time in this manner is a real negative. This is first and foremost a GAME and should be a fun experience for everyone, not just some ********** out to bully others for their own enjoyment. People seem to forget that there is an actual person attached to that avatar you are screwing with.
    While i wouldn't partake in the kind of gameplay SaeyoPrayers is talking about i have disagree with your arguments. Video games are a medium. Saying games should just be "Fun" is like saying all movies should be happy. Does a movie need to be happy to be enjoyable? for some maybe but no. Same thing for a game. Games don't need to be sunshine and rainbows around every corner for players to enjoy their experience.

    Sometimes you need to be able to experience loss to appreciate victory. Maybe it isn't clear to everyone but this game isn't just about winning. Unless you are extremely lucky, you will lose and that is part of the experience they are trying to create for the players. This isn't a single player rpg where you are a savior/hero, this is a mmo and you are just one of many characters in a world. It is because the game isn't doing it for us that it makes the journey that much more satisfying.

    Yes, they need to be careful with their mechanics to make sure players can't exploit them and they have spoken many times on how they will watch this but they want these mechanics here. You can't have good guys if people can't be bad guys.
  • I also love how you said no offense...but...
    then inplied I was a ********* out to bully people LOL 
    there's always that but. Arma is definitely not for the soft skinned. You will die. A lot. You will get kidnapped. A lot. You will be publicly executed in kavala square. A lot. There's literally no other point to it.
  • That is the beauty of the internet. For those that want to embrace their inner "bro" and play a game that allows you to be a total asshat to people and let others do the same there is a whole genre. I personally can't be fucked to play the full loot pvp grief games, but if others want to spend their time and money there, more power to them. Ashes is looking to find a balance among those different playstyles. Want to be a griefing ****, go for it. You will just keep incurring more and more penalties that make you more and more laughable, till you get tired of it and leave. Maintaining your personal economic benefit while being a griefer will be hard without the support of your other "bros." And as we see time and time again, those temporary alliances of idiots break down easily and quickly. "What you mean I have to go chop wood for two hours because we don't have enough stuff to make me a new shield? I am just going to go PK till I get a new shield? Wait, I can't loot items? This game SUXXORS...I'm taking my bad self back to ARMA, where they get what a bro wants."
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited July 2017
    That is the beauty of the internet. For those that want to embrace their inner "bro" and play a game that allows you to be a total asshat to people and let others do the same there is a whole genre. I personally can't be fucked to play the full loot pvp grief games, but if others want to spend their time and money there, more power to them. Ashes is looking to find a balance among those different playstyles. Want to be a griefing ****, go for it. You will just keep incurring more and more penalties that make you more and more laughable, till you get tired of it and leave. Maintaining your personal economic benefit while being a griefer will be hard without the support of your other "bros." And as we see time and time again, those temporary alliances of idiots break down easily and quickly. "What you mean I have to go chop wood for two hours because we don't have enough stuff to make me a new shield? I am just going to go PK till I get a new shield? Wait, I can't loot items? This game SUXXORS...I'm taking my bad self back to ARMA, where they get what a bro wants."
    Eh, it's not even full loot. You can keep any cash they have on them and the drugs. Most people don't keep cash on them though. We put our money into the ATM. So, you'll lose the last 20 mins of drug gathering you did and have to rebuy your body armor/guns. Unless of course, you're like everyone else who has a house nearby with storage crates full of that type of stuff. So you re spawn at your house, grab your sniper rifle, climb on top of a building, and shoot them through the windshield as they try to drive by to the local drug dealer or chop shop. Repeat. /shrug lol
    if you get caught by the cops, they'll impound your vehicle, guns and take you to jail. Literally sitting in jail for certain amounts of time, depending on your bounty. Unless of course, you can role play your way out of it. Make up a good story and get the cops to laughing, they'll let you go....
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