Will the world be alive?

ArchivedUser

When I ask this I'm not talking about node leveling, unlocking unique quests/events. I'm talking about the more mundane part. If I deforest an area will I be able to return in an hour to find all the trees have magically re-appeared or will I have to wait a much longer period of time for them to re-grow? (so I basically have to look elsewhere) This goes for all types of things like flora and fauna.

This also extends to things like mobs......If I wipe out that pesky Orc camp, will they just keep eternally spawning? (meaning I didn't actually wipe anything out)

Or dungeons.....after a period of time will that dungeon collapse and you will have to find another one?

I guess my point is, I think it's silly that in most games I can go online to find a map of where X or Y is located and it will always be the case whether it's today or 2 years from now. I would much prefer things in the world change and not be static. That would mean maps would only ever be a temporary tool and would have to be constantly be updated to be relevant.

This admittedly might be a lofty goal and would be an incredible programming headache but I can hope

ArchivedUser

I would hope that the trees regenerate at a not-so-realistic rate. It would really suck to have to wait hours to mil more wood. >.>

ArchivedUser

IThrowSexyParties said:

I would hope that the trees regenerate at a not-so-realistic rate. It would really suck to have to wait hours to mil more wood. >.>

Well I'm obviously not talking about true realism, else we would have to wait 10-15 game years! And things like ore/rocks would not regenerate at all but I would like to make the hunt a never ending process and require maps be updated continually.

ArchivedUser

Putting an agriculture system where we need to plant ourselves if we need trees of a certain type and gather afterward doesn't seem bad, and since the game has seasons you won't be able to get anything at any time but... yeah... I don't know... You would need to create specified areas where you can plant that types of plant/tree/ or whatever, and I can already foresee high tiers trees spot being guarded (I'd totally do it to have complete control over that resources on the market :v)

ArchivedUser

This has been asked on the live stream. If i remember correctly, they have said they want to try to simulate this with there node system but aren't going to create a complex system to do this. 

ArchivedUser

I'm not able to go find a reference at the moment, but I could swear I've seen something where the devs stated that we aren't going to be farming the same resource repeatedly spawning in the same location.

ArchivedUser

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/10158/quotebin-quotes-of-intrepid-team-from-discord/p1 this is the bible you need, I'll let you read it 

ArchivedUser

I think the resources are going to spawn in different locations but still be in close vicinity to where you initially farmed the previous resource node. I'm not going to be too concerned as long as it is relatively easy to spot resource nodes.

ArchivedUser

Ya, for me game-play is much more important than res-pawing timers of mobs or environement.

ArchivedUser

They will respawn in different areas.
What we won't see is Orcs packing up to seek a safer location.
Dungeons and mines, etc., will simply respawn elsewhere.

How long it will take to reappear in the same location? Who knows?
We'll have to see how seasons affect it all.

ArchivedUser

PlagueMonk said:

I guess my point is, I think it's silly that in most games I can go online to find a map of where X or Y is located and it will always be the case whether it's today or 2 years from now. I would much prefer things in the world change and not be static. That would mean maps would only ever be a temporary tool and would have to be constantly be updated to be relevant.

This admittedly might be a lofty goal and would be an incredible programming headache but I can hope

It's not really that difficult to program these days. Unreal Engine 4 makes dynamic procedural generation of in game assets fairly easy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmRggTwhiew

Gone are the days of fixed dungeon maps, static world backdrops and fixed spawn points

ArchivedUser

Waysm said:

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/10158/quotebin-quotes-of-intrepid-team-from-discord/p1 this is the bible you need, I'll let you read it 

I scanned through it but couldn't find anything specific on my topic

lexmax said:

PlagueMonk said:

I guess my point is, I think it's silly that in most games I can go online to find a map of where X or Y is located and it will always be the case whether it's today or 2 years from now. I would much prefer things in the world change and not be static. That would mean maps would only ever be a temporary tool and would have to be constantly be updated to be relevant.

This admittedly might be a lofty goal and would be an incredible programming headache but I can hope

It's not really that difficult to program these days. Unreal Engine 4 makes dynamic procedural generation of in game assets fairly easy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmRggTwhiew

Gone are the days of fixed dungeon maps, static world backdrops and fixed spawn points

You say that but it "seems" like an extremely complex task to me (not that I don't believe you)  Hell the whole concept of creating an MMO sounds like a programming and logistical nightmare.

ArchivedUser

PlagueMonk said:

Waysm said:

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/10158/quotebin-quotes-of-intrepid-team-from-discord/p1 this is the bible you need, I'll let you read it 

I scanned through it but couldn't find anything specific on my topic

lexmax said:

PlagueMonk said:

I guess my point is, I think it's silly that in most games I can go online to find a map of where X or Y is located and it will always be the case whether it's today or 2 years from now. I would much prefer things in the world change and not be static. That would mean maps would only ever be a temporary tool and would have to be constantly be updated to be relevant.

This admittedly might be a lofty goal and would be an incredible programming headache but I can hope

It's not really that difficult to program these days. Unreal Engine 4 makes dynamic procedural generation of in game assets fairly easy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmRggTwhiew

Gone are the days of fixed dungeon maps, static world backdrops and fixed spawn points

You say that but it "seems" like an extremely complex task to me (not that I don't believe you)  Hell the whole concept of creating an MMO sounds like a programming and logistical nightmare.

I totally agree, but what I meant is that the tools have evolved so much in the last few years that things that were difficult or impossible a few years ago are now comparatively easy to design and program

ArchivedUser

lexmax said:

PlagueMonk said:

<snip>

I totally agree, but what I meant is that the tools have evolved so much in the last few years that things that were difficult or impossible a few years ago are now comparatively easy to design and program

At this point I will have to have faith in your understanding since I know very little about what is currently "easy" on the back end. I have a good grasp on visuals coming from working with programs like 3DSM and Maya but the stuff programmers can do with those graphical assets sometimes blows my mind. I do know that as we progress, the graphic engines people are creating for games are becoming more robust all the time so it is quite possible.

ArchivedUser

PlagueMonk said:

lexmax said:

PlagueMonk said:

<snip>

I totally agree, but what I meant is that the tools have evolved so much in the last few years that things that were difficult or impossible a few years ago are now comparatively easy to design and program

At this point I will have to have faith in your understanding since I know very little about what is currently "easy" on the back end. I have a good grasp on visuals coming from working with programs like 3DSM and Maya but the stuff programmers can do with those graphical assets sometimes blows my mind. I do know that as we progress, the graphic engines people are creating for games are becoming more robust all the time so it is quite possible.

I'm the opposite, more on the technical side rather than the modelling side. Yeah what you can do with tools like Maya I find mindblowing. I've posted this link on another thread, but it illustrates how the "programming" side of world generation in UE4 has evolved in a similar direction. 

https://youtu.be/VmRggTwhiew

This is 1000's of times easier than the way it used to be done

ArchivedUser

Alive and vibrant.

ArchivedUser

I think one the biggest impacts to realism and immersion for me are the npc's and their actions.  I truly hope some of these npcs are dynamic, and not just aimlessly walking bots that run a rut in the same path bumping into things derpishly.

ArchivedUser

lexmax said:

PlagueMonk said:

lexmax said:

PlagueMonk said:

<snip>

I totally agree, but what I meant is that the tools have evolved so much in the last few years that things that were difficult or impossible a few years ago are now comparatively easy to design and program

At this point I will have to have faith in your understanding since I know very little about what is currently "easy" on the back end. I have a good grasp on visuals coming from working with programs like 3DSM and Maya but the stuff programmers can do with those graphical assets sometimes blows my mind. I do know that as we progress, the graphic engines people are creating for games are becoming more robust all the time so it is quite possible.

I'm the opposite, more on the technical side rather than the modelling side. Yeah what you can do with tools like Maya I find mindblowing. I've posted this link on another thread, but it illustrates how the "programming" side of world generation in UE4 has evolved in a similar direction. 

https://youtu.be/VmRggTwhiew

This is 1000's of times easier than the way it used to be done

HA, I actually watched that exact video when I was looking for info about the Unreal 4 engine yesterday! Made me interested in possibly going into environmental lyout and design.

Warkov said:

I think one the biggest impacts to realism and immersion for me are the npc's and their actions.  I truly hope some of these npcs are dynamic, and not just aimlessly walking bots that run a rut in the same path bumping into things derpishly.

What? You don't like how in most MMOs that 'questgiver' NPC is standing at their post 24/7/365 waiting patiently to help all adventurers collect those 10 wolf pelts?!

Honestly this was the first shortcoming I noticed when I started playing MMO's. I thought that the blacksmith I got a quest from should have his normal work day, close down for the night and not be available until morning but yet there he was, just waiting for me in the dead of night to deliver my finished quest to him for a reward.

So yes, I totally agree it would be a great stride forward if the NPC's in a town actually appeared to go about a fairly normal routine (not say just a few key point cycles, only to return and do them again 5 mins later. I don't know how possible THAT is to program but it would be nice.

ArchivedUser

@PlagueMonk Back in swg they use to have packs monsters that would stalk you, or be afraid and run from you.  There was also tons of different factions, and you could have positive or negative factions with various npc groups.  Well if you were out in the wild and were fighting something, and the npc group you had positive faction with happen to see you, they would come and help you kill whatever was attacking you.  If you had negative faction, then they would join your enemy in attacking you.

  You could also be out wandering around and come across enemy factioned npc's/monsters already fighting each other!  It really went a long way to make it seem the world was living and carried on even when you weren't there.

ArchivedUser

@PlagueMonk I hear you. Static NPCs questgivers are immersion breakers for me Maybe the NPCs that perform actual duties around nodes could also double as questgivers? That way you'll need to chase them down somewhere in town to turn in your pelts etc.

@Warkov I want to find out more about the "adaptive AI" for mobs that IS have talked about. I'm guessing that running into a mob of wolves one time might cause them to startle and scatter, but the next time they might put up a fight or even hunt you down, so this might be along the lines of what you're talking about?

ArchivedUser

Warkov said:

@PlagueMonk Back in swg they use to have packs monsters that would stalk you, or be afraid and run from you.  There was also tons of different factions, and you could have positive or negative factions with various npc groups.  Well if you were out in the wild and were fighting something, and the npc group you had positive faction with happen to see you, they would come and help you kill whatever was attacking you.  If you had negative faction, then they would join your enemy in attacking you.

  You could also be out wandering around and come across enemy factioned npc's/monsters already fighting each other!  It really went a long way to make it seem the world was living and carried on even when you weren't there.

Ohhh I admit I never got past my first couple days in SWG but what you described sounds awesome. Not sure how to directly apply that to AoC since we have no factions but I want it in some fashion!

ArchivedUser

@lexmax  Yes pretty similar I hope.  So in swg there were 3 types of actions the monsters typically took out in the wild.  I forget what the third action was, but one was stalking and eventually attacking you, and the other was to run and try to escape out of your attack radius.  There was a sort of distinction between predator and prey type animals, and that determined their actions around you.  The Predator animals would also attack the prey type animals if they happened to spawn within range of each other.

As for Npcs, they would either attack, help, or be indifferent towards you and other npcs/monsters.  Whenever you would kill a gang or faction affiliated npc you'd get negative faction with them, and positive faction with their enemy npc.  You could also gain faction through questing too.  So it was a balancing act on who you should and shouldn't attack.  

So let's say you are out in the wild and you decide to attack some big bad monster, and you start losing.  Well off in the distance you see a gang of swoopers.  If you had good standing with them you could drag the monster within range of them and they would see you and come running to help you kill the monster.  But there could be a different gang that's nearby for instance, and since they are the enemies of your swoop gang friends, they proceed to come attack them and you.  This mechanic could lead to some temporary all out brawls where everyone is attacking everyone else, and it could even allow you to slip out of the fight unnoticed.  It was a ton of fun!  A heck of a lot better than attacking one npc that spawns in the same place over and over.  

It also wasn't uncommon while out exploring the world to stumble across npc's fighting each other, or fighting predator type monsters.  It makes for some memorable and fun experiences.  So I really hope that IS captures some of that creative npc magic.  I'd also like to see npc's that don't have static pathing, as well as ones that are only around during certain times of the day, and look to be going somewhere, or performing a mission.  

oh oh! I also remember dynamic quest givers that would spawn in the wild and approach you to help them.  So say you are out exploring the world.  A lady npc sees you and runs up to you.  She tells you that so-so is attacking her family/home etc nearby, and can you please help her.  You can choose to help or decline etc.  But if you accepted it would turn into a neat little mini mission close to wherever you are already exploring etc.