Hope There Won't Be Limited Action Bar Space

ArchivedUser

Ashes seeks to be an extremely immersive mmo experience where choice matters. Some other mmos have tried to limit the amount of skills you have at one time limiting your choice to a what. I hope that ashes does this differently in that choice will lie more with when, instead of what. Having access to all skills an archetype has at once is extremely immersive. A great mage knows many spells and can pick the right one for the occasion. A great bard remembers all the songs he's played, likewise a formidable warrior shouldnt have to wait to stop fighting to use a skill that he already knows. 

Thoughts on this?

ArchivedUser

I'd agree. The action bar should at least accommodate as many skills/abilities your character needs in combat. I'd also want the UI to not be too cluttered, auto hiding non combat actions while in combat would also be nice.

ArchivedUser

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/33023/information-class-and-skills#latest

I wrote that up a wee while back hope it helps a bit. (Even though it still needs updated I'm working on it #oneladyteam
The Devs said they want skills to matter tactically and are working out the right number of skills to give the best performance.
What we will also find in Ashes is that skill combos will likely work across classes so will be pretty awesome to work out what class skills work out with others ^^ so not only do you need to pay attention to your own skills - paying attention to others will pay off -^^

ArchivedUser

There will be.
Get used to clicking from spell book fam.

ArchivedUser

One of the things I've capitalized on for years is multiple skill bars. So with, say, my healer main, I have a bar that's all heal skills. Then I have a bar that's heal spells combined with deeps spells. Then I have a bar that's utilities. So on and so forth.

I actually do, however, approve of skill bars that make you really think about what you're going to use, when, where, and how. I don't, personally, think it's so great to have every possible spell available to you; some are just trash, and some are (imo) just silly to use as the cost of them outweighs any benefit.

Ssssooooo ... I'll be happy if we have 10 skills, much more, and I'll shrug and keep things minimalistic for myself, as I generally do.

ArchivedUser

4 12 slot skill bars should cover almost everything including emotes.

ArchivedUser

Isende said:

One of the things I've capitalized on for years is multiple skill bars. So with, say, my healer main, I have a bar that's all heal skills. Then I have a bar that's heal spells combined with deeps spells. Then I have a bar that's utilities. So on and so forth.

I actually do, however, approve of skill bars that make you really think about what you're going to use, when, where, and how. I don't, personally, think it's so great to have every possible spell available to you; some are just trash, and some are (imo) just silly to use as the cost of them outweighs any benefit.

Ssssooooo ... I'll be happy if we have 10 skills, much more, and I'll shrug and keep things minimalistic for myself, as I generally do.

Playing a healer over the years myself I have to agree with this.   It's all in the planning.  

ArchivedUser

I've done both extremes; WoW where I had skill bars on every edge of my screen and ESO that only had 2 sets of skill bars and each bar was tied to a specific weapon.

I have to tell you I much preferred ESO because it made you think hard about which skills you wanted to take into battle with you (although I would have welcomed just 1 more normal slot on each and a passive slot)

The one caveat to that would be I would welcome a non-combat bar to have other clickable options readily available like emotes and such.

ArchivedUser

As someone who's played GW2 and FFXIV as their most played MMOs, I would definitely prefer something closer to GW2. I like how impactful your ability choices are in GW2. For some fights, you really have to plan ahead and change up parts of your build. That being said, in GW2 there are some abilities that are much stronger than most on any given class, so there's a lot of the illusion of choice going on, since if you're good enough you can get away with using mostly the same abilities. Then there's Final Fantasy, and to be honest I don't like that you can have a ton of abilities, mostly because I feel like I never have to really change up what I'm doing before a fight. I love the foresight that comes into preparing for a specific fight, and having access to everything all the time ruins that for me because then I just react whenever to whatever and I'm golden.

Basically if we have around 15-20 skills, I'd probably be happy. Enough skills to have a core group that I probably don't change out, but enough leftover slots where I can feel like I can and should adapt to the situation ahead of time.

ArchivedUser

A great cook might remember every recipe - that doesn't mean they're prepared to cook every recipe at any given moment.

That's the immersion factor of having a limited action bar.

ArchivedUser

With the game's principle of "risk vs reward" I doubt the devs are gonna go for full access on your skills at all times. You're gonna wanna build your toon a certain way and that means choosing specific abilities to suit that build. So, you get rewarded with that play style and at the same time suffer the consequences of counters (eg your kit is full glass = profit from burst kills. dude was actually too tanky = your abilities are on cd and you get cc'd to death).

As for my thoughts, I'd much prefer having limited abilities in a single action bar. Nothing like winning an impossible fight with what you have as opposed to pressing an "oh shit" button/s that's always gonna be there.

ArchivedUser

As complicated as it looked, I liked how Aion allowed you to have 3 actions bars.
1st bar: number keys
2nd bar: alt+#
3rd bar: ctrl+#

Worked really well and you could combo with linked skills by pressing the space bar. Something similar to this along with the option to have multiple bar setups on different pages will give players enough versatility to play however they want.

ArchivedUser

A lot of interesting thoughts here
Say we do have limited abilities. What is fun about a fight that is over before it starts because your opponent has a build that will inherently trump yours simply because you cannot respond to him while you are in combat.

ArchivedUser

Windwaker said:

A lot of interesting thoughts here
Say we do have limited abilities. What is fun about a fight that is over before it starts because your opponent has a build that will inherently trump yours simply because you cannot respond to him while you are in combat.

I don't understand why you won't be able to respond in combat? Would you mind explaining to me sorry.

I feel that regardless of number of abilities available - it's not quantity of skills that determines who wins - it's quality and how you play. If another class can trump you it's a class imbalance or because you played non tactically, not because you don't have enough number of skills.

In addition to that - if you mean like a cc break - then it's you as a player to create the build you want via the skill tree (I know we don't have infos yet), secondary archetype and the selected augments you choose and weapon type - which will be suitable for you and will work as you feel best against your opponents (or supporting your party). 
If you put the right skills on your bar you'll play better, or even better, play with friends and learn cross class combos that will cover all areas you feel is lacking on your own bar.

ArchivedUser

Hmm.. I'd rather have it so that there is a limited skill-bar. Now talking about "how" limited is a completely different matter and something I'd rather not dig too deeply into, that is Intrepid's job haha.

I just think that having a limited amount of skills to use makes for more diversity. This means that an individual of the same primary/secondary archetype to someone else could choose to have a different set of skills on their skill-bar, and essentially play differently than the other person. Allowing for every/near every skill to be placed on 4+ bars just seems kinda lazy, but that's just what I think anyway. Besides, it makes the screen look so full...

This isn't exactly something that bothers me too much either way, just thought I'd share my general thoughts about it.

However, it would be nice to have skill-bars separate from "convenience" bars. Like say you have an option to show an extra bar, but only things like potions/scrolls and stuff can be places in those slots.

ArchivedUser

Windwaker said:

A lot of interesting thoughts here
Say we do have limited abilities. What is fun about a fight that is over before it starts because your opponent has a build that will inherently trump yours simply because you cannot respond to him while you are in combat.

I'd like to have responded to this, but I can't think of anything I can say that @Diura didn't say.

Wait, maybe I can. Let's all ponder that monolith, WoW, and the incredible number of action bars/buttons allowed in that. Can you honestly tell me, if you played that and played that way, that you didn't have a rotation that included at most 5-6 "must-have" go-to skills which you used most of the time? I did. Everything else was utility. I know, I know, I may be an oddball, but really, if you can't pick a build that functions best for you and build the bars based on that, then what do you have, besides a whole lot of buttons that almost never get used?

ArchivedUser

That is something I agree with ^^ I hope there is a separate bar for utility skills and pots etc  

ArchivedUser

I'm a fan of limited skill bars that make your load-out choice
a tactical decision. It also helps diversify the battlefield.

ArchivedUser

hope there is no load out and ability swapping at all, i hope you are what you are, no dragging and dropping this skill or that skill to bar, work your way through skill lines you want with limited points acquired. here is what happens in every single mmo that allows such flexability...10000 choices....everyone's the same....everybody using the same most powerful skills of the month....the fotm game.  

so i hope we have 10-12 skills that combo into others, utility bar for food/drink/long duration buffs (stoneskin for example, 60 min buff) things like that and emotes would be on the utility bar, but for real if you can't type /emote i really don't know what to tell ya lol. 

ArchivedUser

Wizard_Beard said:

here is what happens in every single mmo that allows such flexability...10000 choices....everyone's the same....everybody using the same most powerful skills of the month....the fotm game.   

Not quite true. In GW2, I always sought out the builds that others weren't using, like stacking bleeds & self-healing spells on a Thief, rather than stacking crits. Even with limited bars, if you have wide variety of ways that things can be done, you'll always have folk like me who find the "other" way of doing things, rather than sticking with the "Tried & True."

ArchivedUser

As a healer I like the idea of at least 3 action bars that can be moved anywhere on the screen
One for single and/or  group heals. purging & cures to use when the healer of a group
One for heal and dps abilities.
One for Buffs.  utilities like gathering, mounts or pets.
I believe only one bar should actually be needed for whatever activity you are doing. Many abilities obtained over time become obsolete or ineffective and get replaces.  

ArchivedUser

Isende said:

Wizard_Beard said:

here is what happens in every single mmo that allows such flexability...10000 choices....everyone's the same....everybody using the same most powerful skills of the month....the fotm game.   

Not quite true. In GW2, I always sought out the builds that others weren't using, like stacking bleeds & self-healing spells on a Thief, rather than stacking crits. Even with limited bars, if you have wide variety of ways that things can be done, you'll always have folk like me who find the "other" way of doing things, rather than sticking with the "Tried & True."

Fair enough, but it also depends on what content you're going for. For example, you can do dungeons or fractals with pretty much any class and group composition. However, in raids, unless you have a group of people that really knows what they're doing, some fights are significantly harder with builds that aren't at least considered mid-to-upper tier. Of course, as long as you stick with a theme and fully flesh it out and test it, you should be able to make at least a mid-tier build, but at the same time, you're needlessly hampering yourself unless you just really enjoy that build.

Wizard_Beard said:

hope there is no load out and ability swapping at all, i hope you are what you are, no dragging and dropping this skill or that skill to bar, work your way through skill lines you want with limited points acquired. here is what happens in every single mmo that allows such flexability...10000 choices....everyone's the same....everybody using the same most powerful skills of the month....the fotm game.  

so i hope we have 10-12 skills that combo into others, utility bar for food/drink/long duration buffs (stoneskin for example, 60 min buff) things like that and emotes would be on the utility bar, but for real if you can't type /emote i really don't know what to tell ya lol. 

On the flip side of this, if you have no room for build diversity, every time a patch hits, there will be people who all of a sudden have a less viable build and can't easily swap, making it harder for them to find groups for content. Say you only play DPS mage, and then a patch hits and mage becomes '4th best' DPS behind Ranger, Fighter and Rogue. You're relatively screwed at that point, since it makes it harder to find groups. This just makes it so people have to invest more resources to make multiple characters instead of investing in one character and changing their build. In the end, it's all the same. There will always, ALWAYS be fotm builds in games such as MMOs with changing game balance. Trying to make a game without fotm builds is literally impossible, or near enough to it that it hasn't been done yet. 

The real task for developers is to create several builds per class, and have them all fall within a range of acceptance. (Edit: I mean this as in even if they go the route of having highly specialized builds that aren't easily swapped, any changes they make to builds have to stay within this 'realm of acceptance.' As long as this is maintained, all but the most hardcore players will feel like they have options to choose from, and that's what matters most. Whether or not you are able to easily change your build on the fly is of personal preference, as long as when you lock yourself into or find a build you like that build can stay relatively viable). Not that each class has to be able to do everything, but each class should at least have a few different viable playstyles. Take what Isende said earlier about GW2. Even though the build may not have been considered 'top-tier,' it doesn't mean that it didn't get the job done. As long as each class has a few builds that are viable, then I think that good balance is achieved. Bonus points if your class is balanced enough where you regularly change up weapons and skills based on the encounter to maximize your potential.

ArchivedUser

It's interesting that it's mainly us healers commenting here, I'd be curious to see a tanks pov...

Personally I'd love lots of options, because (just imo) actually having the brains to use the right skill at the right time is probably harder than preprepparing a limited rotation that almost any numpty can use without thinking...

And I totally agree, the first thing that I do when going into a new(for me) mmo is to look at a popular build, follow a tried and tested one before I can get my head around it enough to change it about, so yes this also means that if everyone's using the same build then limited skill accessibility hides any deficit of player ability.

I'd  rather have a wide range to choose from As In my experience you have to think harder about energy conservation, pre plan, depth of healing that player needs/is going to need compared to their team mate  etc etc... if you only have eight to ten options, it can get a bit simple.,

Also, as mentioned, if you're grouping with random, because of all the differences in builds there are going to be, having access to more cab mean you can also adapt to fit in with their personal style /needs

ArchivedUser

Here's the thing about Flavor of the Month:
It's YOUR choice to jump on that bandwagon.
Just because some people give in to it and only
play what others say is "Meta" doesn't mean the
system is bad, it means they either lack imagination, 
or lack the fortitude to do their own thing.

ArchivedUser

SconeOfDoom said:

Fair enough, but it also depends on what content you're going for. For example, you can do dungeons or fractals with pretty much any class and group composition. However, in raids, unless you have a group of people that really knows what they're doing, some fights are significantly harder with builds that aren't at least considered mid-to-upper tier.  

******
@Isende responded:
You made a very key statement there. See, once upon a time, the point of a raid wasn't to go in and ROFL stomp the bosses, it was to go in, learn the fights, learn what worked best, and then overcome the raid as a team. Nowadays, no one wants to let anyone but the overly cookie-cutter builds that everyone knows and loves into the fight, because it might take a little longer. It is, in fact, very possible to do everything with every style of fighter, it just may take longer, or take people finding new ways to work together.
******
@SconeOfDoom said:
On the flip side of this, if you have no room for build diversity, every time a patch hits, there will be people who all of a sudden have a less viable build and can't easily swap, making it harder for them to find groups for content. Say you only play DPS mage, and then a patch hits and mage becomes '4th best' DPS behind Ranger, Fighter and Rogue. You're relatively screwed at that point, since it makes it harder to find groups. This just makes it so people have to invest more resources to make multiple characters instead of investing in one character and changing their build. In the end, it's all the same. There will always, ALWAYS be fotm builds in games such as MMOs with changing game balance. Trying to make a game without fotm builds is literally impossible, or near enough to it that it hasn't been done yet. 

******
@Isende responded:
Yes, and no. 
You are, I believe, basing your information solely on the FOTM builds which can be degraded severely, yes, due to patches -- especially those that address "class balance." I mean, take a sec here; we all know, we all admit, that true class balance will never be perfectly achieved. Some parity will always exist, and moreso among people who step away from the cookie-cutter builds. For the build I mentioned above, as well as the off-spec Mez build I used which popped out glorious amounts of group heals, my characters' viability did not get impacted nearly as much as the more popular cookie-cutter builds were impacted.
******

@SconeOfDoom said:
The real task for developers is to create several builds per class, and have them all fall within a range of acceptance. (Edit: I mean this as in even if they go the route of having highly specialized builds that aren't easily swapped, any changes they make to builds have to stay within this 'realm of acceptance.' As long as this is maintained, all but the most hardcore players will feel like they have options to choose from, and that's what matters most. Whether or not you are able to easily change your build on the fly is of personal preference, as long as when you lock yourself into or find a build you like that build can stay relatively viable). Not that each class has to be able to do everything, but each class should at least have a few different viable playstyles. Take what Isende said earlier about GW2. Even though the build may not have been considered 'top-tier,' it doesn't mean that it didn't get the job done. As long as each class has a few builds that are viable, then I think that good balance is achieved. Bonus points if your class is balanced enough where you regularly change up weapons and skills based on the encounter to maximize your potential.

******
@Isende responded:
Not sure I understand this part. So, currently, with the main/secondary class setups we're looking at, there are a gajillion different builds that can be brought out. Someone else will have to give you those numbers, I can't remember them.

What I'm reading, what I think you're saying, is to give people a narrow choice of actual viability from the broad swath they've given us to play with. And I have to question why this is desirable. I mean, ok, so you're going to have your hardcore min-maxers who say "THIS IS THE ULTIMATE BUILD, DO IT THIS WAY OR DON'T GET CONSIDERED!" However, that does not, believe it or not, negate the myriad people like me who are, in fact, true theorycrafters, in that we take this, and that, and go "Huh. How come no one else has done this yet?" We do in fact create very viable, playable characters, but we don't do it within the limits set. I think that taking away our ability to do this would be undermining a central appeal of the game to people like me.

ArchivedUser

Alas these arrays of skills using come at the price of months/years of playtime and or are level locked that also require months/years of game time.

I am all for any player jumping into the game and be capable of playing at a level on a par with any other player. The players builds may be massively different, but they will remian competitive. The only realy limit to that competitive ability being the players skill deploying the right skills in the right place at the right time.

So...that requires a massive variety of skills to choose from to stop vets getting bored and have something to learn/do. BUT It also means there must be a highly limited skill bar where only X amount of skills can be used at any time as this ensures new players can have the full required array of essential skills almost straight away.

An MMO can never run into the situation where players can not play together from day one. If you stop MMO players journeying together through game design....you failed!

The desire to play together (or not) shoudl always be player choice...not DEV and game mechanic choice.

ArchivedUser

@Isende responded:
You made a very key statement there. See, once upon a time, the point of a raid wasn't to go in and ROFL stomp the bosses, it was to go in, learn the fights, learn what worked best, and then overcome the raid as a team. Nowadays, no one wants to let anyone but the overly cookie-cutter builds that everyone knows and loves into the fight, because it might take a little longer. It is, in fact, very possible to do everything with every style of fighter, it just may take longer, or take people finding new ways to work together.

*****

So, here I'm not trying to say that you have to allow cookie cutter-only builds. So, I'll use a few examples. I am by no means an accomplished raider in GW2, but I've been around the block. I've watched a stream where a team consisting of only Revenants (considered probably the worst class in PvE prior to this last patch in terms of DPS, and probably mid-tier in utility) cleared a raid wing, but these were all extremely experienced raiders. When I first started raiding, in a group that used only builds listed on a site by a guild that tests and measures the DPS output of builds, it still took us nearly a month to get our first kill, spending about 2 hours a week for that month. If we were using only Revenants at that time, it most certainly would have taken longer.

Like I said, I'm not saying that you need to use cookie cutter builds. But if you have healers, they should be able to output a reasonable amount of healing. Heck, the 'meta' healer in raids atm doesn't have the most healing output- they can just heal enough while giving better buffs. You don't have to play a meta DPS build, but for certain content such as raids with timers, no matter your build, there is a threshold of what you should be able to accomplish. 

@Isende responded:
Yes, and no. 
You are, I believe, basing your information solely on the FOTM builds which can be degraded severely, yes, due to patches -- especially those that address "class balance." I mean, take a sec here; we all know, we all admit, that true class balance will never be perfectly achieved. Some parity will always exist, and moreso among people who step away from the cookie-cutter builds. For the build I mentioned above, as well as the off-spec Mez build I used which popped out glorious amounts of group heals, my characters' viability did not get impacted nearly as much as the more popular cookie-

*****

Here, I'm not demeaning any of the builds people may be using. What I am stating is that there will be a bias that exists in any current meta. If you play a class that happens to currently have a negative bias, it makes it harder to find groups. To use my example of Revenants again, Revenants are a very rare sight to see in raids in GW2. As I also said previously, this only also matters in the highest end of difficulty for content. In dungeons, I see people running wacky builds I've never seen before. And this is more than fine! All I'm stating here is that if a stigma exists, people on the wrong end will suffer.


@Isende responded:
Not sure I understand this part. So, currently, with the main/secondary class setups we're looking at, there are a gajillion different builds that can be brought out. Someone else will have to give you those numbers, I can't remember them.

What I'm reading, what I think you're saying, is to give people a narrow choice of actual viability from the broad swath they've given us to play with. And I have to question why this is desirable. I mean, ok, so you're going to have your hardcore min-maxers who say "THIS IS THE ULTIMATE BUILD, DO IT THIS WAY OR DON'T GET CONSIDERED!" However, that does not, believe it or not, negate the myriad people like me who are, in fact, true theorycrafters, in that we take this, and that, and go "Huh. How come no one else has done this yet?" We do in fact create very viable, playable characters, but we don't do it within the limits set. I think that taking away our ability to do this would be undermining a central appeal of the game to people like me.

*****

So here, I am making the assumption that your secondary class won't change the core way your primary class plays, and I believe they have stated things to this effect. Rather, the secondary classes will give more of a flavor or utility style increases. Yes, secondary classes may increase damage, but every class will have secondary options to increase your core class' damage. Same thing goes for being tanky or healing. If this is, in fact, the case, there is already much more build variety than there is in most games. This would have to be my most desireable goal in terms of balance. Also, I believe there was the misunderstanding of hard limits being set. What I was trying to state was such; say you play a DPS mage. When editing classes and class balance, the core mage skills will largely determine the DPS output. They need to ensure that, in a sense, these core mage skills are in line with the core ranger skills. If the core mage skills aren't in line with the core ranger skills for DPS, then there will be a bias towards whichever class is stronger. Sure, say if mage is stronger than ranger, it doesn't mean ranger can't do the job done. However, if mage is far superior to ranger in terms of damage output, then it's somewhat of a failure in balance, and it will be reflected in a bias against rangers in the community, regardless of the fact that rangers are still good enough to clear the content. You mentioned earlier that you remember when the point of raiding wasn't to go in and ROFL stomp the bosses. Unfortunately, many people are more interested in clearing content easily than giving themselves a perceived handicap, and I'm making these statements with this in mind.

Obviously it won't be this black and white. This is only a barebones explanation with a probably exaggerated example. But I state it like this to get the point across. 

ArchivedUser

Rune_Relic said:

Alas these arrays of skills using come at the price of months/years of playtime and or are level locked that also require months/years of game time.

I am all for any player jumping into the game and be capable of playing at a level on a par with any other player. The players builds may be massively different, but they will remian competitive. The only realy limit to that competitive ability being the players skill deploying the right skills in the right place at the right time.

So...that requires a massive variety of skills to choose from to stop vets getting bored and have something to learn/do. BUT It also means there must be a highly limited skill bar where only X amount of skills can be used at any time as this ensures new players can have the full required array of essential skills almost straight away.

An MMO can never run into the situation where players can not play together from day one. If you stop MMO players journeying together through game design....you failed!

The desire to play together (or not) shoudl always be player choice...not DEV and game mechanic choice.

Not so sure; you're looking at it, I think, as what has come before; all of everything we've done has been based on combat. Ashes isn't about that, so much as being about an entire "living" community that does more than just bash and slash and rip things apart. 

As for what should be player choice; it still is. If players do not like the direction @GMSteven and company are taking the game, they have the choice of playing other games.

ArchivedUser

SconeOfDoom said:
-snipsnipsnip-

Good answers. I'm not sure, overall, how I feel about them; I agree with some points, and some points I'm like "Yeah, but that's in so-and-so game."

I guess it'd be easiest to say that I hope we're not as locked down and limited as we've been in other games, and I hope that most of our players will play a class for love of the class, not for the numbers. I think that's a thing we've lost, as you pointed out above. If the Mage can't match the Ranger's numbers (even if it's because each player is playing the way they want to play), then I hope the Mage, and the Ranger, will continue playing as they love playing, and the rest of the community/group/etc will respond in kind, finding a use for them rather than saying "L2PNoob."

Additionally, I have to think about the design of the encounters. Yes, the encounter you mention (never did it, left GW2 before it got to be raiding, thankfully!) seems to be quite difficult. But why? Because it is a grind. Because it is something for people to bash their heads against, struggling to achieve for goodies and accolades while waiting for the next patch or content or whatever. And that's the current "tradition" in gaming. "Old school" and prior to that built its teams based on what was at hand, and struggled to achieve things without min-maxing, without "What's the best DPS for blahblahblah?" 

I guess I do know how I feel about them, lol! I can see your point, and your point is based on your experience. My experience is a bit different from yours, and so my point of view is also different. And to sum it all up; I'm drawn to Ashes because it feels, to me, as though it's going to be more "Old School" than "current traditional."

Thanks for the discussion!

ArchivedUser

I think limited action bars are great. Instead of having 1000 keybinds you have to think strategically about where you're going and what you need for that environment. I thought Wildstar did a good job of implementing a system like this. You could have a tank build that maximized dps, threat, or defense. It made you think about what content you're about to engage in. Farm content? Go max dps. New or more difficult dungeon? play it safe and go with damage reduction. Having trouble keeping threat off your imba dps? Max threat. Having trouble with packs? Pick up some aoe. 

ArchivedUser

I really enjoyed the Guild Wars 1 skill bar design. The only thing I'd have preferred was to have 10 or 12 skill slots instead of 8. Having a limit of 1 elite skill and 7 other skills meant the skills you picked really defined how your character played and what it could do.

In PvE and PvP it was a feeling of "ooh, I wonder what sort of Ranger/Necromancer we have here" rather than every character of a certain class combo having all of the skills and generally doing the same thing every time you come across that class.

There will always be optimal builds for certain situations so it can be argued that it means everyone plays very similarly anyway, but having the option of sitting down and working out a new skill build and how you think you want to play it is a really fun aspect, especially in split/cross class games such as this and GW1