Suggestion: Class system

ArchivedUser

Hey guys, what do you think about doing a class system a bit like one in Lineage 2. It has 34/36 classes which makes the game REALLY uniqe. Im not saying that this game needs a bilion of classes but maybe something more than Knigh-Knight or Fighter-Mage. So the Player can really feel the differece between the Races-Classes. To clarify in Lineage you can really feel heavy punched fromm an orc, the human sorcerers fireballs or how dealdy can a dark elf Abyss Walker(assassin) can be.
The classes system presented feel like the ones from "Rift" and that system was weird. I think that if a Player can pick from for exaple 3 or 5 classes when he advances is better than creating your own and figuring out that it does not work.

I've read about classes system here: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/32502/how-the-class-system-works#latest

ArchivedUser

I personally like the idea of classless systems but those can be hard to do, and am very interested in what the devs plan on. Adding in more augmentations in my mind would be a lot easier then adding in more classes

ArchivedUser

L2 has 34/36 classes, Ashes has 64 and you want to make it more like L2 so that we have more variation on class system? I am confused.

ArchivedUser

Well It sounds like 64 classes but would it be really? What is the difference between Knight-Cleric and Fighter-Cleric. I will still hit enemy and heal himself. In L2 you had 8 buffing classes each one none like the other. Just because classes was Race based. Yes you had like 4 archers but each one had its own good and bad sides plus unique skills (not all but most). And on paper "Fighter-Cleric is different than Cleric-Fighter" sounds dull. At LEAST give that classes a name.

ArchivedUser

As they have been developing the classes they have been giving them names other then the "x/x" rogue/ranger for instance they are calling  predator, and tank/cleric paladin. @tugowar has put together a few threads for people to come up with names for the combos just for fun.

With augmentation you can add race into the mixture without having to create a whole new class. If they do make races have their own augments then in effect the "classes" get increased by factor of the number of races/subraces which atm is 7 so 64x7=488 different possibilities, they also said there is going to be religions. I believe 6 of them if given augments they add to that again so 488x6=2,688 and that's if they don't make not having a religion have its own augments. I don't know about you but 2688 seems like a lot to me.

I thinks also interesting to note that just because someone chooses the exact same race/class/religion doesn't mean that they will choose the same augments means that they could be totally different from what you have.

Keep the classes simple but give the players lateral depth in how they choose to mold it

BTW weapons are not class bound either which also has the potential to increase the variety as well

ArchivedUser

2,688 Possibilities sounds like alot of "+1%" modifiers. Because you cant just create so many things and still have that uniqueness. Even mobas struggle above 80 characters to have another one still uniqe enough. It seems absurd. If they really want to make something that BIG with so many possibilities it will take more than 16 more months just for that magic "2688" number. Weapons/armour wont change much, i dont think that a tank-tank will run around with a dagger in a cloth armor. I know what im saying i've been in the industry for some time i've seen projects that had alot of money and people but failed cause they promised to much. Im not hating im just learning more about the title im about to pay money for.

ArchivedUser

Daeion said:

2,688 Possibilities sounds like alot of "+1%" modifiers. Because you cant just create so many things and still have that uniqueness. Even mobas struggle above 80 characters to have another one still uniqe enough. It seems absurd. If they really want to make something that BIG with so many possibilities it will take more than 16 more months just for that magic "2688" number. Weapons/armour wont change much, i dont think that a tank-tank will run around with a dagger in a cloth armor. I know what im saying i've been in the industry for some time i've seen projects that had alot of money and people but failed cause they promised to much. Im not hating im just learning more about the title im about to pay money for.

I do see your concern with the 1% modifier thing, and it is one that I share, however when talking about augmentation the devs have been saying thing more along the line of "say a tank has a charge ability, going with a secondary class as a mage would give them an option to augment it into a teleport to the target". It is my hope that they go that route instead of the 1% with all of the augmentations they come up with.

Just had a thought from a different angle so you have 8 basic skill sets, then you have 8 ways to change them with secondary class, 7 from race and 6 or 7 from religions. So each skill would need 21 or 22 different ways to change it,  from a development standpoint this does seem like a challenge but not as much of one as creating 2k individual classes, it is easier to make the bits and pieces then let someone else find ways of putting them together then making the bits and pieces then putting them together yourself.

Making another class is putting the bits and pieces together yourself, making more augment sets is making the bits and pieces

ArchivedUser

Daeion said:

Well It sounds like 64 classes but would it be really? What is the difference between Knight-Cleric and Fighter-Cleric. I will still hit enemy and heal himself. In L2 you had 8 buffing classes each one none like the other. Just because classes was Race based. Yes you had like 4 archers but each one had its own good and bad sides plus unique skills (not all but most). And on paper "Fighter-Cleric is different than Cleric-Fighter" sounds dull. At LEAST give that classes a name.

I presume you meen tank when talking about knight, so difference between tank+cleric to fighter+cleric already comes with the main class. Its different to play self-healing tank or self-healing fighter. Also there will be variations in augments and those works little bit differently when combined to different abilities. So that self-healing will be just one option.

Also there will be names for each class combinations. Like tank+cleric is already confirmed to be paladin. And what it comes to fighter+cleric, it can be easily called knight and maybe cleric+fighter could be called crusader for example.

ArchivedUser

Lets just see what they have before we start picking it apart.

ArchivedUser

Adding more classes? huge, huge trouble, depends on the way you put it can be both awesome idea or can be the worst possible, having many classes can make the game very, very unbalanced, best case scenario the devs know what to do and they manage to balance the characters output of power.
i believe that starting with few classes will be the best for now, easy classes, so we can first learn the game mechanics, also lets not forget the effort and the work needed for new classes, let them get the game in alpha first and then we can talk for adding more things.

ArchivedUser

I think the post above that mention the variation between archetypes with secondary class augments, racial augments and social group augments will be enough.  As for adding more archetypes, that is not a discussion for Alpha or Beta but a discussion for after live release.  Let them develop what they have planned and then worry about adding to the list.  That discussion may only come up a long time after release as well.

ArchivedUser

Daeion said:

2,688 Possibilities sounds like alot of "+1%" modifiers. Because you cant just create so many things and still have that uniqueness. Even mobas struggle above 80 characters to have another one still uniqe enough. It seems absurd. If they really want to make something that BIG with so many possibilities it will take more than 16 more months just for that magic "2688" number. Weapons/armour wont change much, i dont think that a tank-tank will run around with a dagger in a cloth armor. I know what im saying i've been in the industry for some time i've seen projects that had alot of money and people but failed cause they promised to much. Im not hating im just learning more about the title im about to pay money for.

You can have infinite variety from +1% to +10%.....

...as long as they come with -1% to -10%.

That's where practically every single modern game falls apart with balancing. They all try to make you more powerful instead of more different.

ArchivedUser

I like the original idea that characters are created from combination of primary class + secondary class + race + religion. That gives huge amount of combinations as long as those gives some real difference and not jus few % adjustments.