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PVP System Discussion & Suggestions
ArchivedUser
Guest
Hi! My name is Tirithel – I’m one of the Guild Masters of Cynical. We’d like to offer our opinion on the PVP system that this game will showcase and possible remedies to some of our concerns.
Before beginning, I do want to say that I do like the base that Intrepid Studios has presented for open work PvP and PK and their efforts to make it an objective based opt-in system.
How The System Already Works:
Resultant status is displayed by the color of the box!
A Non-Combatant Is:
A “Green” player that absolutely refuses to participate in PVP. This is fine – if you don’t want to participate for whatever reason, you don’t have to fight back. Players will still be able to kill you but they will be “punished” for it.
A Combatant Is:
A “Purple” player is a player that has opted-in to the open work PK. They have either retaliation while being killed as a “Green” player or initiated a fight between a Green/Purple player to gain this status. Combat between purple players is fine since both players have opted in.
A Corrupt Player Is:
A “Red” player is a person that has continuously killed non-combative “Green” players and is being punished by the system. Corrupt players experience additional exp loss, chance to drop gear, and stat degradation. As far as we know, the only remedy to being corrupt is to die lots of times.
What We Believe the Issues to Be:
While we understand the intention of the corruption system (which is to protect players that don’t wish to participate in PK), we don’t believe that a Corrupt player will be overly and unfairly diminished because of their actions. Not only will a Corrupt player risk breaking and losing all his/her gear, but they will also be more likely to lose battles because of the stat degradation. The way that the system is set up it seems like the Corrupt player will not only be punished by the possibility of gear loss, but at an extreme disadvantage because their stats won’t be accurately represented.
TL;DR Gear loss AND stat degradation isn’t fair to a corrupted player.
Possible Remedy:
I believe that without the stat degradation, the bounty system should entice players to hunt the Corrupt without having to nerf their stats. Having a player driven open world game should allow for players to make these choices without being overly penalized. If the reward for killing green players are good enough for a player to want to go red, there should be equal or greater rewards to wanting to be a bounty hunter to kill the corrupt players or protect the green players given that the fight will be fair.
TL;DR We would like a fair shake – the bounty system should be enticing enough that there shouldn’t be both gear loss and stat degradation for corrupted players.
Comments
That does not meen there would not been PvP at all, because corrupted players can attack each others and combatant players freely. Even these rules might feel harsh, but those can always be changed after testing. Also its good to start with more punishing rules and come down from there if needed.
I also see that these rules can always play around. People will always find ways to do that. If i would want kill non-combatant players, i could consider to go with small group and with gear i can easily afford to loose. I could also bait bountyhunters to get ambushed.. i would ofc not do that, because i am a model citizen..
There will be plenty of OW PvP. The Devs are trying to implement a fair and as balanced game as they can to encourage both PvP and PvE players.
If you don't like the punishment then don't do the crime.
If you don't like the corruption and it's consequences then go pick on someone who is flagged. Simple.
Player who dont want to fight will lose a bit of exp and a bit of resources , but if you kill him you are must to suffer for lifetime corruption ? I am sorry what?
So what does the penalties for green if he dies from pk : a bit exp loss and a bit of resources .
PK penalties: corruption, BH will see you on the map, a chance to lose your gear, exp loss,green can kill you and you cant kill them or you will get even more corruption, stat degradation. MMMaximum carebear.
What I offer,if you kill an other player he will lose part of his money, part of his loot, piece of his equipment.
If you kill green he lose 100% of his money, 50% of his inventory , 2-3 parts of equipment. I want to play Ashes of Creation , not Adventures in Carealot .
And give to people to choose what would they like to play. PvE and PvP servers... That is always the best option.
I don't think it's about punishment versus crime. I think it creates an unfair disadvantage for the PKer - why should his stats go down AND his gear drop if he commits the crime. Shouldn't they be able to defend themselves too for playing the game how they want to play it? I understand why the system is there but think that the bounty hunter system should be enough to entice other players to protect other green players from the corrupt players.
See, I'm not concerned so much as the labels and the fact that worse things happen the further corrupt you get - I'm upset the fact that because someone wants to PK they lose stats and therefore lose the ability to defend themselves properly. By taking away their stats, they don't represent the same criminal that committed the crime.
I think its ideal to reward people, without downgrading those who want to pvp like myself. Both sides can be rewarded and no one will have issue, as long as the downfall to enjoying pvp is enjoyable, and not griefing to a green player. Mostly being a purple player is where its at though, no risks of being corrupt, and still pvp. Just have to ignore green.
I don't know that this topic has necessarily been overdone, maybe it has, but i think it is important for us as potential players to analyze everything that could go wrong now, so if we come up with the something the devs havn't considered yet, they can work it into their blueprint.
So yes, this may be a common topic, but it is also one of the most important ones for the devs to get right. I don't think we should discourage people from trying to rethink it.
As to the OP, If you do have concerns about the pvp system, maybe post a question in the livestream thread?
But i have faith that the devs will balance it out.
You will still be able to occasionally PK green players but do it too much and your soul rots your body from the inside out weakening you and making you an easier mark.
At least try it out and see how it works before saying that it won't work. Alpha and Beta testing will likely allow for a system that is balanced to the tolerances envisioned by the Devs and palatable to the ENTIRE community.
Example, Black Desert, severe punishment for pvp, not worth doing, result, no one does it unless they like to punish themselves.
Example 2. Archeage, result was basically cash shopped away, no punishment unless intended to do so, jail was fun for both victum and killer. (Acceptable approach) long term result is pvp was too frequent, and people felt no need to do it until monetary gain (IE
Example 3. (Ideal example) Age of Conan had no penalty to pvp, and rewarded it. People had the option to pvp anyone they saw, and as a result trended not to based off the community, small factions of kill any and everyones formed and the larger pvp guilds shunned them and hunted them down for killing their members.
End result is different systems will breed different responses to pvp and systems. If there is no reason for pvp, there wont be any typically, if there is harsh penalty to initiate pvp, again wont be pvp.
I play atm game called Albion Online and those who dont know its hardcore OW PvP game with full loot system. That is the core of Albion and it will not change from that. Now Ashens core is different, its also PvE player friendly and the devs intend is to protect that playerbase from ganking. Because ganking is only fun from one point of view. They focus on PvP, but in elsewhere. Now too many gankers are trying to change this game to favor their playstyle without realizing it will hurt other players gaming experience. Other players who will be bigger audiance than gankers who just want to get easy kills without serious penalty. I also gank sometimes, but within the ruleset i have got, so zero symphaty from me.
And the player protection in AoC for now will lead for the griefing of pk players. No one will attack the PK back, because the penalties are not so bad , and then return to kill a corrupted player , or if the PK wont kill them, they would write "HAHA PK SCAM WOT WOULD U DO TO ME ?! olololo" or "there are arenas for PK scam go fight there, let the 'normal' players (carebears) to enjoy the game".
PvP for the spot or dungeon will lead for karmabombing as well.
WE NEED TO PVE AND PVP SERVERS.
And what it comes to definition of hardcore PvP player (what you clearly think you are) it fyi meens gaming which goals for competitive PvP fights and in those players eyes gankers who wants just easy kills are carebears themselfs and not better than PvE oriented players.
This is a game for all not just one set of players. You have many choices to out right kill others then green players. If you chose green players then you chose the consequences also. Let alpha and beta help sort it out with the devs Live with it or don't. Play or not. Your choice. Life is all about choice.
And yes, PVP players DO cry the most.
Please stop derailing my thread.
I'm just concerned that they will take away the corrupt player's fighting chance to protect them from dropping their gear - especially considering people will already be incentivized to hunt these players.
No one is trying or demanding to take PvP away or make it any less. It's about choice. How much are you and your guild mates willing to sacrifice to gank or kill green players? Like in RL pay for murder if caught. How much experience does a green player want to lose by not fighting back? It's a 2 way street.
Again testing their corruption system in Alpha and Beta is essential.
i.e. in BDO if you choose to not participate in PVP, but grind in a heavily contested spot, you're bound to get killed and are pretty much asking for it. These players inversely abuse the karma system of the game - sure the PKer could not kill the PVE-er, but the PVE-er should be aware that they are doing something they shouldn't (Karma Griefing).
'Genuine' PvP is totally unnaffected in any way by the corruption system.
Only those people out to murder the weak and inferior suffer corruption.
Those into genuine PvP combat on a level footing with others that want to fight, have absolutely 0 restriction from doing so and 0 penalty.
So with that in mind I will now suggest the corruption system does not go far enough.
Players attacking others without response and outside of a legitimate PvP scenario clearly arent conducting PvP to have a fair and even fight. They just want to slaughter as many people as possible. Which isnt what the game is about...and has been stated many times. THIS IS NOT A MURDERBOX!
1. So my suggestion is anyone who hits a player 3 times in succession without response gets corruption.
If the attacker hasnt realised the other player doesnt want to fight by then, they deserve the punishment.
2. Not only does corruption stack...it squares. Every murder doubles the corruption score and penalty.
Lets mark it again PvE servers has arenas and duels , the world is one big safezone.
PvX has duels and arenas + open world PvP with agreements from both side or lose your xp + equipment part. The PvX is the same as PvE but with a bit strange version of duels.
And now you will probably reply to say that we have such PvP events that effect the real world as such as fights to destroy enemy city and caravans. Yep there are some pvp arenas, do they effect something for other players ? Nope. Battles for a siege ? Why should I care what guild has captured the city? Caravans? Another PvP arena, but a bit more unique and needs a test. But I dont really understand it, you make caravans with full loot system (or we will be really disappointed) , but no full loot in open world.
Even if the city is destroyed by other players ( lets be honest it would be near impossible to do so) you can still build your own house and dont give a thing.
So even if the devs say "You cannot avoid it the PvP" you can actually.
That why PvX is PvE. Two servers PvE and PvP are the best .
It is not HARDCORE it is just a PvP server. Idk why people complain for it. They dont know what is the real hardcore,open world PvP is not griefing it is fighting. PvX is for carebears and casuals.
We have bounty hunters. If someone wants to punish a player he may pay gold for bounty hunter to slay him. Freedom. We have city guards if someone is on black list they can kill him. It bring so much fun and possibilities to the game. Maybe even enough to add reputation , so the pk would have their own little villages to hide, and they could not enter the city so easily (only at night jumping from one roof to another).
You should go listen to and read about all the Devs have planned for Ashes that have drawn the masses here. Instead of trying to change what they deem is ideal, meaningful suggestions to improvements that benefit all would be more helpful.
Is this game PvP-Oriented or Pve-Trolling-Oriented?