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PVP System Discussion & Suggestions
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"No one is talking about targeting greens, I'm talking about being karma griefed by greens. If a green player comes into my spot and refuses to leave, I should be able to remove them by force. This system would overly punish an individual by slapping on both stat degradation and possible gear loss over something as trollish as a green player that refuses to fight but continues to be a nuisance"
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Everyone is a Non-Combatant by default.
So if you are mining for instance and you are red for some reason such as having killed another green then what's the problem? Anyone and everyone can use the LIMITED resources scattered around the lands. That mine doesn't belong to just you.
That again was your choice.
What do you consider YOUR space?
And you spoilers or nicknames when you reply , because you wiped the whole page with your reply.
To compare, lets say two players of the same level are in a resource area (I'm basing this scenario under the assumption that @Tirithel 's comment on 'spots' refers to gathering spots or something similar). Player One was there first and has been gathering for a few minutes now, but Player Two had discovered this area earlier and has returned for more. P2 is of the opinion that the area belongs to them since they were gathering here earlier, and decides to chase away P1 through violent means. Upon being attacked, P1 decides to take the chance P2 might show mercy, and refuses to retaliate. However, P2 kills them. Upon death P1 loses exp, takes damage to their gear, and loses a sizable chunk of the resources they'd just spent their game time gathering.
Player Two is now a (we'll say level 1 for clarity's sake) corrupted red player and attracts the attention of a nearby bounty hunter. The bounty hunter tracks P2 and begins to attack, taking vengeance for P1's death. Upon death, P2 loses exp, a bit of their corruption, and the roll for loss of gear fails, instead damaging the gear. It's entirely possible for RNG to have been a lot harder on P2 and succeeded the gear drop, but that's not the point.
The measure of loss is defined differently for each person. The time and effort spent gathering those materials might have the same meaning to P1 as risking the gear was for P2. It might not. In the end, both players lose something and the only one to come out positive is the bounty hunter. Deciding how much and what to lose are the lines Intrepid has to toe carefully. Before stating that something is unfair, one should see all aspects concerning it, though. Ignorance is most certainly not bliss in most cases. Intrepid has the task of balancing these ideas, and I have no doubt that their final product will at least placate both sides well enough.
tl;dr There's two sides to every coin.
I think what we're more likely to see is, anyone who wants to PK greens for the sake of ... well.. whatever reason.. will use effective tools, but not their best tools for the job.
That is, the average PKer mayhave a full set of their best gear for Raid/PvE content, and a separate, less valuable set for Pking.
I mean, if I was concerned about being punished for murder by having my murder toys taken away, that's what I would do ^^
Don't throw in the towel on PVP just yet
If you check through the forums you'll see there's a balance between the PVPers worried about the system favoring carebears, and just as many carebears worried that the system favors PVPers.
What we do know for sure is that the devs are listening, and they are MMO players, not just MMO creators. They want to make the game the best it can be, and they have the same hopes that all of us do about how this game will turn out.
The PVP system as it currently stands is an idea... a pretty thorough idea.. but an idea nonetheless.
Until they have put it through significant testing, and had a chance to tweak it I would hesitate to come out against it on either side. It might turn out to be rubbish, or it might turn out to be the best PVP system in the history of time itself
Just make 2 separate servers. PvP and PvE.
@Eleanc Its just stupid to try argue that PvE is same as PvX, because that is just not true. If there is system which prevents/degreeses players to attack green non-combatants, that does not make it not even close to PvE. That ganking green players is maybe 5% (at most) the whole PvP what happens so it does not even close kill the PvP in game.
Making separate servers for PvP and PvX could be one option so we dont have to go this same discussion all over again. But i understand if devs dont want to do that because PvP servers PvE side will be harmed and PvX servers PvP side will be harmed also. Maybe the servers are not in balance with each other and creates a problem if characters can be moved from PvP server to PvX for example. This could also lead to situation where some servers will turn to ghost towns with time.
Basically my suggested compromise was that you get stat degradation only for killing lower levels than you (it's fair, you attack weaker targets, you become weaker as a result).
HOWEVER, there shouldn't be any stat degradation for attacking equal level players. This should be handled by bounty system more than well.
You will become wanted anywhere, you will not be safe anywhere. Everyone will want to kill you for reward. This is more than enough punishment.
[spoiler]idk what else you expected from PvP!?~[/spoiler]