Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
That's part of the point of keeping levels comparatively shallow - shallow vertical progression and wide horizontal progression.
Which is a concept the Ashes devs seem to be borrowing from the EQNext game design.
First and foremost, we're attempting to experience the Hero's Journey in a high fantasy virtual world. In such a setting, the protagonists start as an average joe and then gain the experience and power to rival Gandalf... and sometimes even the gods.
In D&D, godhood was represented by reaching Level 20.
Level cap for vanilla EQ was 60, IIRC. WoW is now at 110.
Player created story or dev created story are both fundamental to RPGs.
Doesn't really matter which of the two reigns supreme as long as there is always a steady flow of story content.
Which there should be in Ashes - if they're able to achieve the full potential of the game design.
In traditional MMORPGs, the world is static. We can't adequately measure our impact on the world because everything resets to status quo - even with phasing. Also, with everyone experiencing the exact same quests, the only thing we have to brag about is gear and numbers. Just about every player in WoW has defeated the Lich King.
Lack of levels isn't what will focus us on story.
Building and Destructibility will cause us to focus on roleplaying and story.
What role did you play in building the grand metropolis? Were you even here before it was built? What are role are you now playing in order to maintain the city's glory?
Why are you talking about fast travel and group finder in the Ashes forums as if you know nothing about the Ashes game design?
It's as if you know nothing about how the Ashes game design might just bring you the gameplay you're longing for - while keeping levels as a mechanic.
Do some research, my friend.
Each skill will have a max level at 99. We will have skills such as; Attack, Strength, Defence, Hitpoints, Magic, Ranged and Prayer. Including other non-combat skills like Herblore, Agility, Firemaking, Woodcutting, Fishing and many more.
Combat level is based on how high your combat skills are and when you first create your character you will have to go through a tutorial on 'Tutorial Island' where you will learn the basic skills necessary to go forth on your adventure in Gielinor, starting outside of a little Castle in Lumbridge.
All in favor?
Now, most games since then have followed a model of one character, one profession (class, etc) and it can take weeks using the vast majority of my free time to hit max level. In reality, that means months, since I can't afford to spend 6-7 hours a night in-game anymore. Makes it really hard to follow your friends to new MMOs if they've got a significant head start on you. In SWG at least they could help you level, but these days it doesn't pay for high-level characters to interact with lowbies.
So, yeah, I don't really care what the system is as long as it doesn't have a horrendous grind although I'll say I'll never be in favor of skill decay.
99 levels sounds like it's going to be the same problem as WoW and EQ, though.
The thing that turns me off about character progression is having an endgame rather than ever-questing.
I'm not a fan of changing combat professions. Han Solo should not be able to swap roles freely from Pilot to Jedi to Bounty Hunter to Lounge Singer.
Just like everyone shouldn't be able to freely swap race or gender.
I would say that most games continue the traditional RPG model of one adventurer class per character. Most MMORPGs I'm aware of do not restrict players to one character.
It should take weeks and/or months to hit max in the adventurer level - a person doesn't turn into Gandalf over night. That takes years.
Rather - there should be plenty to do for everyone... and plenty of things that characters of all levels can participate in together.
Like building a city. Like defending one's town from attack.
One of the main things that needs to change in MMORPGs is making a town or city a low level hub which always remains a low level hub, from which people spread out to congregate in higher level hubs.
Rather, as happens in Ashes, the hubs should grow in level along with the player characters...and there should always be content for player characters of all levels to participate in at the hubs.
The gap between high level characters and low level characters needs to be decreased. And there needs to be activities that allow characters of all levels to make a significant impact on the world.
You don't have to be max level to be in an influential citizen. You don't have to play 6-7 hours a night to be an influential politician. You might be able to remain an influential politician even at low levels and playing 6-7 hours a week... if you choose to be a citizen of a Scientific node rather than a Militaristic node.
Shallow levels helps. That's not the same thing as getting rid of levels.
More importantly, the way we interact with the world is what needs to change - like building the cities we live in rather than occupying pre-built cities.
And having mob and quest and story generation intrinsically tied to the growth and decay of the villages and towns and cities we build.
RPGs are traditionally designed for group play rather than solo play, but...
MMORPGs are persistent worlds which make it possible to play whenever you want - even when few people are playing and those people are on the other side of the in-game continent.
RPGs are traditionally designed to provide ample combat challenges versus a group of diverse character classes which balance each other's strengths and weaknesses. Thus, making it prudent for players to be able to form those groups fairly easily.
That's problematic for MMORPGs when players are playing without their friends.
Group finders are intended to help players find other players on the same quest and fill the roles required to overcome the challenge(s).
The problem group finders fail to resolve is helping players find people with compatible playstyles: casuals are not going to enjoy grouping with hardcores; Explorer/Socializer/Achiever/Killers are not going to enjoy grouping with Killer/Achiever/Socializer/Explorers... and vice-versa.
A player who enjoys exploring every nook and cranny of a dungeon is not going to have fun in a group with people who want to speed run killing everything in the dungeon and move on... and vice-versa.
So, again, we need to change the way activities work in MMORPGs.
All playstyles can enjoy contributing to the growth of a village, town or city.
When a Spider Demon or a Dragon threatens to literally destroy the town players have been striving for days and weeks to build... all playstyles will be invested in defending the city. Don't need a group finder for that.
But, also, where the homes in the village, town or city are open world... it becomes easy to know when and where to find the players we like to play with without the need of a group finder because we will be working with and near the same players day after day as we contribute to the growth of our node(s).
Levels are not the primary culprit for the problems people are hoping to solve.
Group finder and fast travel didn't ruin WoW - they just helped highlight the overall problems intrinsically caused by a game design where players outlevel pre-built cities and spread out in an every widening arc to adventure in the zones that are introduced with the latest expansion.
A player who enjoys exploring every nook and cranny of a dungeon is not going to have fun in a group with people who want to speed run killing everything in the dungeon and move on... and vice-versa." - You sir, hit the nail on the head. Great point!
I would love to see them have the balls to not include levels. I'm seeing a lot of posts about "end game" "grinding" and "level cap". All these things are boring as hell. Character progression is important of course, but why does it need to be levels? I personally would love to see them scrap the standard leveling system and instead have players unlock new skills and abilities, spells and utility instead of hit point and DPS increase. Levels are a habit not a necessity.
How about:
-No levels.
-Players increase a skill (swords or healing magic for example) by using it.
-The higher the skill, the POTENTIALLY better abilities the player unlocks.
-The higher level abilities have a higher risk, higher gain, requiring higher real life skill to pull off.
-If a player stops using a skill to focus on other skills, eventually the skill will start to fall again, loosing access to the best abilities.
With that system a player could constantly shift their play style, experimenting with different skills, that would keep players busy without it being a grind, and skill levels would give players an advantage, but not guaranteed victory over players with lower skill. New players and veterans would be able to play together against the same mobs, and a mob/boss or region would be more or less difficult due to the mechanics and intelligence of the mob, of number of enemies, etc rather than hit points and DPS.
People's thoughts?
The idea of having a chance to unlock new abilities as you climb in proficiency is interesting, but then again heavy RNG like that makes me cringe.
I would think that stats could be derived from those proficiency levels, swinging swords increasing strength slowly, taking damage slowly building up vitality and HP, etc.
Proficiency atrophy is interesting but I think you'd find players would just learn the timing for it and go swing 1 sword or cast 1 spell to reset the timer.
I'll add that I think I'd like to see a game with no hard leveling caps on it, just a soft cap walled behind exponential grind, basically Korean MMOs cranked up to 11 starting at the 'soft level cap'. It could work with meta-level systems or with proficiency systems.
You are essentially arguing against human psychology.