Do you like the slide bar based combo and gathering design?

ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
edited August 2017 in Ashes of Creation Design
Everyone, lets discuss the slide bar based combo and gathering system, but more importantly slide bar in PvP. 

Some people like it, some people hate it. I am personally on the hating side and let me try to explain why. 

- Fighting who? The player or the UI? From what has been shown, all classes got this sliding bar based skills. Which means I as a player will spend a lot of my time watching this bar to press the button at the right time. But if this system wasnt in place, I would instead watch my character animations, what my enemy is doing and what is happening around me. Which would make the game a lot more interesting and the combat action based. So, slider in PvP is a no go for me. The less crowded UI is the smoother game I will experience. 

- Hacks. Someone will write a code for a really simple software which will press the button automatically on the perfect time of the sliding bar. No game is guarded perfectly and I am worried that slider based combo and gathering system will be the main thing that will get exploited. 
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Comments

  • I'd like to play against an enemy, not the UI.
  • i dont like it either. On the other side the combat looks so slow that you need to do something while you fight XD
  • @Schrumpelhut I think its because what we have seen so far was just demos. When players test the game on PAX we should see much faster combat. 
  • So far I am against sliders, but since there is an option for it, I am more for "I need to see more" or actually "I need to test it first to decide".
  • @Schrumpelhut I call it the 'loadingscreen combo minigame' for that reason :D
  • I like it because I can do two things at the same time. I am not mesmerized by sliding bar. One tap to target, use other hand to move, tap again for slider. If you can type without looking it should be easy.  
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017
    I'll just add my 2 cents.

    I want to look at my enemy and my surroundings during the fight and I wouldn't enjoy much having to look at slide bars instead. It would take away both from immersion and from combat enjoyment.

    To make it more precise, I am against having to watch at any UI elements to get combat boost. I'd love to fight while watching at actual game world, and my enemies. So tweaking slide bars and UI more doesn't improve anything for me, only removing slide bars all together does.

    The best UI is the one you "don't even notice" while playing, the one you can almost forget about, while you are immersed in game world instead.
  • It will also be pretty hard for the clerics, many people will only look at the bar and forget about their movement. I´ve played a healer for several years and even without this combo system, people dont look where they are going and where the grp cleric stands XD.
    I´m just afraid these combos will make that worse. :open_mouth:
  • I would like to play the game, test it for myself prior to casting any real judgement =)
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017
    Hax is a bit over exaggerated, as long as it is a fixed time, which it would have to be "even"/especially when it is only animation. You can make a macro with the right time delay to press the button again. You probably just have to test it out more, just like learning it.

    (I don't mind the gathering, so I only talk about the fighting context)
    Other than that I agree tho, it would help to be able to customize the UI so you can drag the bar farther up, but even then I find it too distracting. I am one of those who just learn the timing by heart, I know when my 10sec cd on that charge is over. I know when my escape is ready again, I learned it by heart over many hours and I barely glance at my skills at all. (and I'm talking wow/tera style with more than 10 buttons to press)
    I prefer it that way and hope that timing bars for fighting disappear along the way to more natural indicators, like animation, sound queue or whatnot.

    I can get behind the idea of having them early on to give people an understanding of "here is a combo and here is a crutch to learn it but will/can be disabled later on."
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2017
    ( wrong thread edited out )

    Overall i don't like it.

    But it has a nice Classic Final Fantasy-feel.. But if this bar is utilized better ... i might like it. But i can confidently say that the Bar-Combo(s) can be better expressed via adding more Abilities - hopefully more " Monolithic Abilities

    ( not necessarily causing Frame-Rate Drops nor filling-up the screen, but rather big enough to where there's diversity. )

    However, depicting Magic is interestingly difficult. Its even harder in trying to convey the idea to a Dev's Mindset - it'll literally be like comparing one's own imagination to another's imaginative mind. best way to express it ... is drawing and/or painting it.

     ( Something I might actually do  o:) ... wouldn't be surprised if its too late though ~.~ )

    Back to the point, rather staring at a Bar ... why not Press-&-Hold Keystroke ? Then a ... " small circular bar " would appear on Character's Portrait ?

    OR ( and/or ? )

    How about no Bars ? Rather ... " depending on which ability being used ... 
    " an Aura would be present " ;  either engulfing the Player and/or engulfing the particular object that's about to be used 

    ( i.e. Mage's SpellBook/ Grimoire, Fighter's Sword, Tank's Shield, Ranger's Bow/ Arrow, Hands, Feet, Arms, Leg, Torso-Area, etc ... )

    The longer the ability charges ... the longer the .. " Ability's Aura " grows until the Ability ( or Spell ) is used/ released.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017
    What troll voted he likes it..
    #noToSlidersOfCreation
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017
    I was under the impression that the skill bar was designed for "basic" attacks to build up focus while the main skills were on cool down. Pretty sure I heard it mentioned during a Twitch stream, but I could be wrong. If that's the case I don't see it as an issue since I would want to build focus as quickly as possible so I'm going to focus on that task over most other ones. I'll have to see how smoothly it gets integrated into skill combos before I can say for sure, though. 
  • I like it for gathering and for fishing.
  • Yeah maybe for those, but for combat... Hell no! 
  • I like the combo aspect - but I dislike that it's represented as a slider.

    I'd rather see it shown as a visual cue during the attack animation, e.g. your attack animation gets a slow motion effect for a short moment, during which you can combo an attack - or maybe there's a flash on the screen or something to indicate you can combo.
  • I am only speaking about the combat applications. I feel focusing on what can and can't be hacked isn't something that I personally put forth a lot of energy worrying about- that's for the dev team to test and tailor if need be.

    I personally feel that this is a much better alternative to button mashing or auto attack styles present in nearly every MMO to date. The fact that ashes combat will be slower paced yet intense needs some form of mechanic to keep players invested in the fight rather than waiting for cool downs. Referencing Decimus above me, I would also like to see an animation cue in addition to the slider. If it's done right it can be a very minimal part of the UI and I have been liking this approach recently in the fighting game Absolver. Yes, that system was made for a multitude of combos and this is for potentially one, but it adds to the difficulty of combat which is something I personally would like to see in Ashes.

    Also a final note, please read someone's opinion and realize they are just as entitled to it as you are before you immediately slam them for their vote.
  • This is fine for gathering and fishing, but the slider itself adds nothing to combat. I believe that the slider will be deterring from the actual combat - if we want slower game-play, just balance things around being slower. ArcheAge did it just fine and Black Desert did it fine before gear got crazy. I don't want people to be instantly blown up, but I also don't want to play a mini-game mid combat. 
  • For gathering, the slide bar is nice, since it gives you some more challenge than just clicking on a bush and calling it a day, so for anything involving getting a resource I like it. I think in terms of PvP and PvE, I'll have to see how much concentration it takes.
  • For everyone that's against it; I think they could probably put a toggle in the options menu for "auto slider battle" and just leave it to % chance that you'll do combo automatically and not have to play along if you're lazy. Make it like 33%-40% chance. That's my recommendation anyway.

    I'm personally in favour of it as it adds a bit more engagement in the battle rather than just watching - even though it may seem a bit tedious. I would however, prefer if there were no sliders and instead they opted for better choreographed animation that you would rely on to chain. So instead of watching a bar, you'd be watching how far along your attack animation is.
  • Hacks are going to happen someway or another. It being a slider isnt going to change anything. They will simply have to make a different program for it. 
    Also, I don't really care if it "crowds" the UI because, like virtually all MMORPG's, the UI will be customizable to what each person wants. Its not going to be set in stone. 
    Now, for the slider, I want more information on how it is actually going to work and if it will actually cause more time between action and reaction. (i.e. When you attack once, the program reads the data, causes a delay, then your hit registers). When it comes down to it, I don't care what it is, I just want it to work and work well.
  • AeonAuron said:
    - Hacks. Someone will write a code for a really simple software which will press the button automatically on the perfect time of the sliding bar. No game is guarded perfectly and I am worried that slider based combo and gathering system will be the main thing that will get exploited. 
    It doesn't matter what system people use, hackers will find a way to cheat. Unless of course Intrepid implements security to protect their game code.
    • They have already hired Panopticon Labs to implement a fraud/bot detection system.
    • They have yet to announce who will implement the security system to protect the game client from hacking/cheating. This is my field of expertise, so I'm interested to find out who they use.
  • I tried rewatching the part of the video (where it shows the slide bar) as if I was playing the game. Whenever I focused on the slide to bar to try to hit it right on the red I lost track/sight of the character and everything else that was going on around it. I just don't believe that watching a bar as opposed to the action is a fun gameplay design.
    All of this is coming from someone who is extremely hyped for this game! I can't wait to finally play it, but that slide bar was very unappealing. I have faith in you Intrepid and Ashes community!
  • I love to use as more spells as possible. And as fast as possible. Slide bar seems to be smth I'd hate a lot, because i'd have to focus on extra bars which are always annoying for me.
  • For gathering it's not a problem; for combat it's distracting and I hope they come up with a better idea.
  • I doubt the slider bar will be an issue. Those capable of excelling at the mechanic will stand out above people who cant. 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2017
    People are just hating it because it's something they never had to deal with.. this is just pre-alpha and we know they'll make it more eye appealing rather than a bar... the mechanic of the bar will always be there, just keep them tears coming.


    Hue hue hue~
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2017
    played games with slider combo mechs before, nah don't like it.  i'd rather stay focused on what is happening around me and my party/guild and not rely on an easily botable slide bar. but, this being said i'll have to have my hands on a more complete version of the combat system and then spend hours upon hours sparring in 1v1 and group pvp.....as far as pve it don't make any difference to me, scripted fights can be adjusted for.   this is why i don't like it for pvp...it isn't scripted....and with this mechanic....sorry to sound rude but at minimum 80% of the player base will seem useless because that slider will cause tunnel vision.  and this is why after playing mmos since the late 90s that i have faded away from tab target (non action) oriented mmos.  you end up paying attention to the cooldowns and mass amounts of skills and rotations and not seeing the game because you spent majority of the time playing the UI and not the game...( you don't see all the great things like skill fx and animations etc.)

    oops, forgot to add...i DO like it for things like fishing, gathering, crafting....
  • Annatar said:
    If the UI will let me move the slide bar into a position where it is directly in my field of vision, so I can see it clearly enough without having to 'directly' look at it, then I am fine with it.
    Like @Annatar (and others similarly)...It's This. 
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