Brainstorming possible Gathering and Processing professions

ArchivedUser

Hi,

We know that the artisans have three categories they can put their points into:  Gathering, Processing and Crafting.  Gathering could be mining ore, Processing could be smelting the ore, and Crafting could be Weaponsmithing.  

Can you guys think of other examples of gathering and processing?  

There are some good lists for what looks like crafting professions to me here:  
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/35443/the-crafting-system#latest

-tug

ArchivedUser

Mining could also include gems, processing like gemcutting, and ultimately setting them in pieces so maybe jeweler.

ArchivedUser

Gathering Herbs, processing to reagents, which is then crafted into potions by alchemist.  (though i'd prefer if processing/crafting were one thing in this particular case)

ArchivedUser

Organics... (Biome specific, neutral or selective)
Animal - skins/furs, shells, meats, bones, blood, poisons (specific animals for specific things - trackers)
Trees - sap, wood, fruits, nuts, twines, bark, hartwood, medicines (specific trees for specific things - Caers)
Vegetables and herbs - spices/alchemy

Inorganics...(Biome specific)
Solids - metal ores, gems, reagents, clays, stones, crystals (dowsers)
Liquids - dew, spring, river, sea, maybe even steam and ice, swamp, tar, toxins
Vapours/fumes - any number of malevolent/benevolent gases for various uses.

Probably easier to say what can be built.
Wagons, housing, ships, gear, tools maybe, weapons, clothings, furniture, poisons potions, food, drink.
Even nodes require materials although we dont know what.
And no doubt every material could have a specialist who knows its intricacies.

Guess I'll wait til we know more.

ArchivedUser

Rune_Relic said:

Organics... (Biome specific, neutral or selective)
Animal - skins/furs, shells, meats, bones, blood, poisons (specific animals for specific things - trackers)
Trees - sap, wood, fruits, nuts, twines, bark, hartwood, medicines (specific trees for specific things - Caers)
Vegetables and herbs - spices/alchemy

Inorganics...(Biome specific)
Solids - metal ores, gems, reagents, clays, stones, crystals (dowsers)
Liquids - dew, spring, river, sea, maybe even steam and ice, swamp, tar, toxins
Vapours/fumes - any number of malevolent/benevolent gases for various uses.

Probably easier to say what can be built.
Wagons, housing, ships, gear, tools maybe, weapons, clothings, furniture, poisons potions, food, drink.
Even nodes require materials although we dont know what.
And no doubt every material could have a specialist who knows its intricacies.

Guess I'll wait til we know more.

The whole aspect and speculations about gathering and  Ashes in general are mind boggling I would say.   Also something to really look forward to.

ArchivedUser

I think Rune has most of it covered for things that can be gathered, the question becomes what should be gathered as an artisan vs an adventurer.  Things that are overly easy to come by should just be adventure drop items like meat and bones, but anything that takes skill should be an artisan issue.  Going by what can be created is probably a good idea, as well as considering what kind of job it would be to gather whatever goods.  While it would be cool to gather vapors, varied waters, ect ect, what realistic job role would that be attributed to?  While we know in the end that will all be handed to an alchemist, but who needs to gather the stuff for said alchemist?  Seems that most of the strangest things would all be used in alchemy or some kind of magical enchantment profession, but those roles also tend to work with raw goods the most rather than processed.

For the bulk of anything plant related I expect that will fall under herbalist / botanist, but some of the other ideas present a challenge.  For blood / vapors / toxins and whatever else organic, do we bring out additional science professions?  Biologist, Zoologist, Hematologis and the like?  Is that getting to specific or too many professions?  Sadly not all the organics are as simple as Skinner.  

The inorganics are just as difficult.  We could keep it fairly simple with just having miners and say all the other oddball stuff can be picked up by an adventurer, but the problem then becomes processing.  We have ores, gems, crystals, ect.  Do we say that jewlers handle all aspects of gems, or do we first go to a gem cutter?  Do we treat crystals as the same as gems and handled by the same people?  What about anything that's "magical"?  If a crystal or gem has some kind of mystical property to it, do we have regular artisans deal with that, or only magical artisans?

Like Rune said, we probably need to wait and know more before we can further delve into gathering and processing.  We need to better understand how detailed they want to get with things, as the depth could be extensive, or they could simplify for quality of life / easier coding.

ArchivedUser

Skinner 》Tanner 》Leatherworker

ArchivedUser

Camnesia said:

Mining could also include gems, processing like gemcutting, and ultimately setting them in pieces so maybe jeweler.

I asked the question about jeweler and it has been confirmed. I think gem cutting will be part of jeweler.

ArchivedUser

NightshadeRaven said:

Camnesia said:

Mining could also include gems, processing like gemcutting, and ultimately setting them in pieces so maybe jeweler.

 I think gem cutting will be part of jeweler.

But in otherhand then it would not be line with processing and crafting.. maybe its too much to have processing profession only for gemcutting, but perhaps there could be stonecutter which can cut gems too..?

ArchivedUser

I guess if we are thinking medieval tech, then the village was a self sufficient unit.
So its a question of listing all the medieval trades that existed.
It wont be specialised to the degree of modern times so wont need to be as in depth.
That does not mean that that too would also be far too in depth for how far ashes wants to take it.

Like @CylverRayne says.....the potential is mind boggling.
But it is unfair to make assumptions about ashes limitations.
The good thing is.....not all trades have ot be available from day 1.
They can add trades after release as expansion packs.
All that is required is that the 'framework' to allow such to exist has been put in place.
Using frameworks allows you to provision for future expansion without committing to it.

ArchivedUser

Would be interesting to see a node near a forest could build a sawmill to speed up processing trees into lumber.

ArchivedUser

This is my kind of thread and i have some ideas.. I guess we are going to see artisan professions like these i have listed under here. Not necessarily excatly these, but maybe at least some mixes. List of craftable items would be toooo long, so i just wrote some possibilities and examples. 

GATHERERS
Miner (Ore)
Skinner (Hide)
Lumberjack (Wood)
Quarrier (Stone)
Harvester (Fiber)
Farmer (Crop/vegetable)
Fisher (Fish)
Herbalist (Herb/plant)
Prospector (Gem)
Hunter (Animal)

PROCESSERS
Smelter = Process ore to metal bar and ingot
Tanner = Process hide to leather
Sawyer = Process wood to log
Stonemason = Process stone to block
Weaver = Process fiber to string and cloth
Butcher = Process poultry, fish and cattle to fillets, steaks and feathers
Miller = Process crop and herb to flours and dyes
Gemcutter = Process raw gems to polished and cutted ones
Tamer = Tames animals to pets, mounts and cattle

CRAFTERS
Weaponsmith = Crafts most melee weapons
Armorsmith = Crafts plate armors, shields
Blacksmith/Toolmaker = Crafts artisan tools, horseshoe, chests
Leatherworker = Crafts leather armors, saddles, bags, artisan gear,
Fletcher/Boweyr = Crafts bows, crossbows, arrows, spears, traps, horns
Tailor = Crafts cloths, cloth armors, flags, sails, carpets, curtains, caparision, pouches
Enchanter = Crafts staffs, wands, enchants items, magic tattoos/marks, magic items
Alchemist = Crafts potions from herbs, crops and transmutates materials
Breeder = Breeds tamed cattle, poultry, mounts, pets
Builder = Builds houses, walls, ships, siege machinery
Carpenter = Crafts wagons, boats, siege weapons, furniture
Cook = Cooks food from crops, herbs, vegetables, processed fish and meat
Jeweler = Crafts jewelry, armor/weapon decorations, magic items from noble metals and gems

ArchivedUser

@Ferryman Awesome list!

ArchivedUser

Really impressive job @Ferryman

ArchivedUser

the only thing did find odd @Ferryman was the Builder/Carpenter they did look almost the same to me my suggestion would be builder= larger stuff as houses siege gear boats walls wagons and the carpenter= small stuff like furniture and special parts like a supplier to Builder for more Advance iteams

other then that i Totaly agree whit that list even that the Ore/stone can be one thing to

ArchivedUser

Paddok said:

the only thing did find odd @Ferryman was the Builder/Carpenter they did look almost the same to me my suggestion would be builder= larger stuff as houses siege gear boats walls wagons and the carpenter= small stuff like furniture and special parts like a supplier to Builder for more Advance iteams

other then that i Totaly agree whit that list even that the Ore/stone can be one thing to

Well actually i had Builder and Carpenter as one profession at first, but then i decided to separate those two. Those could be one profession too if there is not enough own content for both. 

I would personally keep ore and stone gatherer separated from each other and only if needed those could be combined with gathering, but stone and ore processing are already totally different professions and should not be combined imo.

But if stone gathering and gem prospecting are both narrow professions, then those could be combined to under one. Mining ore is usually quite wide profession why it does not need anything to its side.

ArchivedUser

Great job Ferryman.

My only real problem with this structure is that crafting needs to be fun, not a chore. By splitting the professions into 3 for each (and further if they split a crafting profession into specialties (weaponsmith/armoursmith) it introduces a bunch of professions that seem like pure work. I just don't see how you spice up processing wood into logs.

How many people are going to be attracted to Milling over Alchemy, or Sawyer over Carpenter?

With the way they have explained it: only really being able to be a master of a single discipline (though able to dabble in more if you want to do the basics) I really can't see too many people choosing processing professions, because this middle ground is the most dependent on others (for raw materials and buyers) and is the least interesting for most people.

With so many professions (30 odd just in this list) it splits things too much in my opinion. I have a feeling that a lot of people are going to want to try and gather and process at the same time and only be half as good at both and become annoyed at that over time. 

I am all for choice, but sometimes there can be too much choice and it degrades the experience (look at how many types of honey there are in the supermarket!).

ArchivedUser

Ferryman won

ArchivedUser

@Ferryman

Awesome job.

ArchivedUser

@Bajjer i agree that the processing professions can be really dull and its hard to see lots of people just doing those. But maybe combining it at least to gathering i think its then just fine. So i guess we are going to see for example ore miner, smelter, blacksmith combos by players. 

I dont mind that there will be lots of professions with lot of choises. I think it goes nicely with sandboxy feel. Its also necessity to have all kind of artisans in player driven economy games. All stuff is need to be done. But even we would have lots of variations, it does not matter. Every profession will be filled for sure. If some profession has less interest at start, it will get more doers when people sees there opportunity to do good amount of money with that. 

ArchivedUser

Ferryman said:

@Bajjer i agree that the processing professions can be really dull and its hard to see lots of people just doing those. But maybe combining it at least to gathering i think its then just fine. So i guess we are going to see for example ore miner, smelter, blacksmith combos by players. 

If the 3 tiered profession system sticks around I think we will definitely see a lot of gathering/processing combos, but not so many combos with crafting included.

We know that you will have a limited number of points to put into the progression of your professions and if you split those points between more than one discipline (be it gathering and processing, or two gathering professions) you will only be half as good in each, unable to reach the top tiers of either progression.

How big an effect this will have on combos of gathering and processing (ie. you can gather/process everything but you miss out on bonuses, extra picks or extra bars smelted, or whether you will be unable to pick/process the rarest of nodes/reagents) we are yet to know, but I think there will be a lot of people happy enough to do that.

If, however, as a crafter you are unable to craft the absolute best breastplate in the game because you put that one point into gathering and therefore can't be a Grand Master Blacksmith, then I think a lot more people are going to find that unacceptable and stick to a single profession.

I am watching any and all statements about crafting with enthusiasm as it is an aspect of MMOs that I love and one that is the most poorly implemented in the majority of games.

I find the three tiered approach interesting on face value, but when I delve deeper it just seems like the entire processing tier will feel bland and more like work than play. If they can spice it up to where I would contemplate being any type of processing profession then I will be mightily impressed. 

However, for now, skepticism engaged.

ArchivedUser

I think strangely enough that the processor stage is where the real money will be made.

I believe most people will go for either gather or crafter as those things tend to be either more interactive (gather) or more rewarding (crafter). But the processor stage is where you'll make a more steady income. Yeah crafters will probably have higher margins, but smaller market.

A lot depends on if we have a npc vrs pc only market set up. Can repairs of gear only be done by crafters, or can they be done by anyone. Do repairs take processed materials or don't they.

Personal I hope for npc vendors for only starting gear, repairs only done by crafters, and repairs require materials.

With that set of choices you have a great start for a solid economy.

ArchivedUser

Well we dont know yet how the artisan part will excatly work and how much points we have in use for different paths, but i hope it wont be like you have to choose just one or few paths or you cant be master of anything. That would just push to create alts to get around it.

If people can only choose one path, i cant see the system would work that way. Easily materials costs more than the finished product. That is just something what i have seen in some games before.

ArchivedUser

Ferryman said:

Well we dont know yet how the artisan part will excatly work and how much points we have in use for different paths, but i hope it wont be like you have to choose just one or few paths or you cant be master of anything. That would just push to create alts to get around it.

If people can only choose one path, i cant see the system would work that way. Easily materials costs more than the finished product. That is just something what i have seen in some games before.

Steven has said that you can only be a Master of One. This was said on the Massively OP Podcast. I don't really have a problem with that, but I think that with 20 or more Artisan Classes, this system will end up being very restrictive with a lot of Artisan Classes simply chosen because they are rare - not because the players find them engaging and fun.

I know WoW crafting is amongst the worst in MMOs but just think about one aspect of the potential system here: processing. In WoW, the processing as part of the Mining/Blacksmithing dynamic is Smelting. In WoW, this aspect is generally done while afk - you load up a bunch of ore for smelting and go and get a drink, or watch TV or do some pushups or read a book. 

I honestly cannot see how Smelting ore into bars can be made fun. I just can't, and I have thought pretty hard. People will obviously choose Smelting as their Artisan Class because it is necessary, without it we won't have any Blacksmiths. But no one is going to choose it because they want to or because they find it enriching and fun.

Sure Smelting as a completely separate Artisan Class makes real-world sense, but this is a game and much of the real world needs to be excluded because much of the real world is not fun.

ArchivedUser

 I am leaning towards putting all of my crafting points into processing.and being known world wide as the best smelter available.  Where the gathers know that they can sell all their ores for a fair price, and all crafters can buy all the ingots they need below auction house prices.

This just seems to fit into my personal play style.

ArchivedUser

BlackCat75 said:

I think strangely enough that the processor stage is where the real money will be made.

I believe most people will go for either gather or crafter as those things tend to be either more interactive (gather) or more rewarding (crafter). But the processor stage is where you'll make a more steady income. Yeah crafters will probably have higher margins, but smaller market.

This is my fear. No one will want to choose the processing artisan classes because they are inherently pretty boring. Those that will choose them, will do so because others have not and they are either needed, or they can make money, not because they are fun,.

We want all professions to be able to make money, not just the boring ones.

But that is based on my assumption that they will be boring. I am so, so willing to be proven wrong.

ArchivedUser

Well i am not convinced, that you can be pure processor and make profit from it. Albion online has refining, which is same as AoCs processing. In Albion raw resources are usually (or always) more valueable than processed materials, so no-one can make money that way. Also being just a crafter is really hard and just some people can do that if they manage to play the market right. 

So i am not sure how devs will manage to implement system where you can just focus to processing or crafting without doing both of those and gathering at the same time. Well gathering is easy way to make money, but how about processing and crafting where you need to invest money first to make something to sell?

ArchivedUser

My guesses would be

(Subtypes - Specializations under same branch on the skill tree)
Gathering:

• Plant Gathering (Fiber and Herb subtypes, prob some edible plants too)
• Lumberer (Trees)
• Miner (Ore, Stone and Jewel subtypes)
• Farmer (Crops and Animal husbandry subtypes)
• Fisher (Fish and other seafood)
• Skinner (Hides and maybe extra animal parts)
  (If cooking ingredients are gained as drops, if not
  Then Hide and Meat subtypes, maybe even Butcher subtype)
• Tamer (Tames wild animals)

Processers:

• Weaver (Fiber to Textiles)
• Alchemist (Herbs to Components)
• Tanner (Hides to Leather)
• Smelter (Ore to Bars)
  
• Carpenter (Wood to logs)
  
• Stonemason (Stone processing)
• Butcher (Animal part processing)
• Miller (Crop processing)
  
• Lapidary (Gem cutter/polisher)
• Breeder (Crossbreds tamed animals)

Crafter:

• Alchemist (Potions)
• Carpenter (Logs to Furniture)
• Sewing (Tailor and Leather types)
• Blacksmith (Weapon(& Tools) & Armor types)
• Fletcher (Bow, Crossbow, Arrows)
• Mechanic (Ships, Siege Weapons, Caravan assembly)
• Enchanter (Enchantments)
• Cook (Food)
• Jeweler (Accessories)
• Engraver

ArchivedUser

Ferryman said:

Well i am not convinced, that you can be pure processor and make profit from it. Albion online has refining, which is same as AoCs processing. In Albion raw resources are usually (or always) more valueable than processed materials, so no-one can make money that way. Also being just a crafter is really hard and just some people can do that if they manage to play the market right. 

So i am not sure how devs will manage to implement system where you can just focus to processing or crafting without doing both of those and gathering at the same time. Well gathering is easy way to make money, but how about processing and crafting where you need to invest money first to make something to sell?

Thinking on this a little  bit... when you think about game markets, the marketplace is generally filled with either:
- I needed to get more proficient at something, so I made a bunch of these low to mid level grade items that I hope sell cheap; or
- Here's the BiS or 2nd best BiS and it's up for a lot of money.

Because of the way that gear is normally tiered, anything beyond the "entry level" tier and the top tier are pretty much worthless.  The effect is that demand ends up being concentrated to a few items, but crafters have to supply a wide range of items for their profession.

If there is going to be an effective crafting system, that issue of demand has to be fixed.  It would be cool if the game actually had a "purchase orders" system as well.  Player A can say, "I want to buy XYZ item for $$ price" and then crafters could choose if they wanted to make that.

ArchivedUser

I vaguely remember back to FF11 where I don't remember much in the way of npc vendors, removing gear as buyable from npc's and drops from dungeons, raids, and quests would go a long way to making the middle tier gears marketable.

ArchivedUser

tugowar said:

If there is going to be an effective crafting system, that issue of demand has to be fixed.  It would be cool if the game actually had a "purchase orders" system as well.  Player A can say, "I want to buy XYZ item for $$ price" and then crafters could choose if they wanted to make that.

I really like this idea. We know that some kind of market stall/shop mechanic will be in place. It would be cool if this could, in some way, incorporate a recipe list or some other way to market what you can do, and then people could place orders if you don't have the item immediately available - or they could choose a style and trait to custom to them.

That is where I see crafting sitting in this game: a lot of custom gear is made to request.