Archetype Prime/Sec - Skill Changes !?!?!

ArchivedUser

As Steven mentioned every Class has a Skill Pool of ~30 !
So they also mentioned , if you choose your sec. Class your  Skills are going to change ... 
lets say we have 30 Tank Skills , if u choose mage as your sec. Class they will transform completely into new more magical Skills ... ?
So they have to change every Skills Set from every Archetyp 8 times ? 
Tank/Mage , Tank/Ranger , Tank/Cleric ....
CLeric / Mage , Cleric /Tank , Cleric / Ranger .....etc
Next Question 
Is there a difference between prim. and sec. Class builds `? 
Mage / Tank  = Tank / Mage ?

i dont know if i really understood the system... but it seems they have a lot of work balancing the whole system.
what do u think ?

ArchivedUser

Tank/Mage

Your skills tree will be a pool of 30 Tanks skills and always will be.
Your secondary archetype /mage will allow you to add flavours of that skill via augmentations.

E.g

[Tank skill] + augmentation [ mage effect ]

You'll be able to choose from various  mage augmentations

Mage/Tank

Your skills tree will be a pool of 30 Mage skills and always will be.
Your secondary archetype /tank will allow you to add flavours of that skill via augmentation's

[Mage skill] + augmentation [tank effect]

Therefore a Tank/Mage and Mage/Tank won't be the same because the primary archetype skill tree will always reflect the "primary archetype".

You'll be able to choose from various tank augmentations]

Secondary archetypes personalise your skills through applying other archetype flavours through augmentation effects ^^

ArchivedUser

Based on the current knowledge we have it does appear that @Diura has stated correct. The secondary class will be an augmentation of the primary class abilities. This would not wholly change said ability but rather enhance it in some fashion.

ArchivedUser

that means i can transform a limited number of skills by my own ? 

ArchivedUser

I think "transform" is not the correct word.
Augments add an extra effect to the primary ability.

A Tank/Tank might augment Shield Might with Shield Might
A Tank/Mage might augment Shield Might with Mage's Escape
A Tank/Rogue might augment Shield Might with Invisibility
A Tank/Cleric might augment Shield Might with Stolen Blessing.

The augments (secondary skills) will be weaker than the primary skill version.
The Tank/Tank probably will not do double damage with Shield Might, but will hit harder than a non-augmented Shield Might.
The Tank/Cleric's Stolen Blessing will be a self-only heal rather than also healing allies.

So, the Tank's Shield Might can change in a variety of ways - but it will always still be Shield Might. It will just have other affects/abilities added on to it.

ArchivedUser

My question abt augmentation is that with the leveling system, it may be hard to level up as cleric, if the cleric represents the healer, it may have a low dps wich in return may turn to be a chore to lvl with that archtype, I can see some ppl picking tank, but cleric, well not so much. In at higher lvl content, when you need healers to accomplish certain objectives in PvP and PvE, may be really hard to form a group with at least 1 healer, since really few ppl will pick that archtype as primary archtype (at least I believe so). I dont know how augmentation will work to be exact, but if for example I pick a fighter or even a mage, as my primary archtype and then select the cleric how can I heal? Is that even possible? Since my damage skills/spells are for damage, do they may turn to be a healing spells or with at least a secondary effect with Hots on friendly targets and so? I can't see that working in my head to be honest, it would be better if we could receive at least 3~4 skills/spells from the secondary archtype or make like it was on ESO where you had skills lines per weapon and armor types, like the restoration weapon could give healing spells when wearing a resto staff or so.

ArchivedUser

Almost all of the cleric's abilities have damage built into them and if pax is any indicator Clerics will have no problem taking down mobs. They can do a decent amount of damage, arguably too much at this point in time.

ArchivedUser

@toshito
You would have to decide on the specific role you want.
If you wish to heal your group, you will choose Cleric as your primary archetype because that is the only way to use Cleric (non-weapon) abilities to heal others.

If you primarily want to Tank, you will choose Tank/Cleric and use your Cleric abilities to heal yourself. That would allow the main Cleric(s) to focus on other people in your group.

Many Cleric heals already include a damage component. So, there will probably be more people playing Cleric than you anticipate.

As a Tank/Cleric, if you augmented your Shield Might with Stolen Blessing, you would trigger a self-heal in addition to the damage from Shield Might. Stolen Blessing also does some damage, but, it would probably only affect a single opponent rather than multiple opponents.

You should probably be sure you understand how augments and skills and classes work in Ashes before trying to "fix" the design.
(In Ashes weapons do have their own skills - some of which will determine which abilities are available to the player depending on class.)

ArchivedUser

If anything from what was shown at PAX, the Cleric class is more DPS capable than traditionally represented in an MMO. For example, ArcheAge where the Clerics almost sole focus was healing with extremely limited damage capability. We have not yet seen an example of the augmented class and its impact to skills but I think it safe to say that a Cleric in Ashes can easily hold their own in PvP and PvE.

ArchivedUser

Belewyn - Hm nice, but still is it possible to do the augmentation to my fighter or tank abilities into healing spells knowing that I have the cleric as the second archtype? That bugs me the most, cause if the main role for cleric is the healer (even though it can produce good damage), then I should pick that for healing then, because tbh I cant see any other good aspect of that archtype, because if I want the seocnd archtype to be pure damage, I may go for mage, or ranger, or rogue, etc...

ArchivedUser

One of the examples given for augments was this. Fighter gets a charge move where they run to the target. If you subbed mage, rather than run to the target you would teleport to it. Now this may not necessarily sound like a big difference but if your enemy is a mage and teleports across a chasm and you can't run to him, you poof to him. No escape muahaha!

ArchivedUser

DevonMeep said:

One of the examples given for augments was this. Fighter gets a charge move where they run to the target. If you subbed mage, rather than run to the target you would teleport to it. Now this may not necessarily sound like a big difference but if your enemy is a mage and teleports across a chasm and you can't run to him, you poof to him. No escape muahaha!

i know .. but how many spells can i change?

ArchivedUser

Pretty sure each of your primary skills can have at least one augment, possibly several.
The limit of how many primary skills you can "change" will really be determined by how many augments you have acquired.

ArchivedUser

toshito said:

Is it possible to do the augmentation to my fighter or tank abilities into healing spells knowing that I have the cleric as the second archtype? That bugs me the most, cause if the main role for cleric is the healer (even though it can produce good damage), then I should pick that for healing then, because tbh I cant see any other good aspect of that archtype, because if I want the seocnd archtype to be pure damage, I may go for mage, or ranger, or rogue, etc...

Healing spells from cleric secondary archetype are self-only.
If you want to be the designated party healer, you would need to have Cleric as your primary archetype and use Fighter or Tank secondary abilities to augment your Cleric primary abilities.
Or choose Mage, Ranger or Rogue as your secondary archetype, if you prefer those.

ArchivedUser

Sorry... uh... when did Steven say we had 30 active skills for each class?

ArchivedUser

Chudyie said:

Sorry... uh... when did Steven say we had 30 active skills for each class?

I too would like to know where a lot of this information comes from. I don't see a lot of this on the wiki. Is there another solid information resource. 

I know I miss some stuff because I am not on twitter or Facebook but has someone amazing collated all this information somewhere else? 

ArchivedUser

@Chudyie
somewhere at/just before pax.
You wont be abel to use 30 skills however.
Instead you will be abel to choose 11-12 out of these.
He also said at some point that it will require about 2 weeks of effort to change your choice.

ArchivedUser

Uao said:

@Chudyie
somewhere at/just before pax.
You wont be abel to use 30 skills however.
Instead you will be abel to choose 11-12 out of these.
He also said at some point that it will require about 2 weeks of effort to change your choice.

2 weeeeeks ``? 
ashes already  died for me if that is true ... 

ArchivedUser

@juschmaster
ya, i have to admit that i dont remember the kind of source for these information anymore. It could have been one of those hidden discord q&a summaries which could possibly contain anything since theres no actual proof.
But even if they plan to do this, i doubt this will make it through alpha 2 when people start to play the game more consistently. Especialy because of the low amount of aviable skills, this just doesn't fit together.

ArchivedUser

and 2 weeks of what? 1h play time each day? so u can grind it in 14h hardcore?

ArchivedUser

juschmaster said:

So they have to change every Skills Set from every Archetyp 8 times ? 
Is there a difference between prim. and sec. Class builds `? 

i dont know if i really understood the system... but it seems they have a lot of work balancing the whole system.
what do u think ?

They have to change the skillsets more than that.
You can also get Skill Auguments from your Religion if you are high enough in the Hierarchy I've heard. As well as they have mentioned that Race will affect skills to some degree. 

And yes, Main Class skills will not change no matter what your subclass is, the auguments you can use on the main class skills will.

It will most likely take quite a bit of work to balance it all out, but there will be no need to "perfectly" balance everything. If they try to perfectly balance everything that will take out the 'unique'ness of the different combinations and make it all a wasted effort to begin with. Not to mention that everyone can also spec differently as they might chose to Rank up Skills differently from one another aswell.

ArchivedUser

Chudyie said:

Sorry... uh... when did Steven say we had 30 active skills for each class?

I think what was said is that we'll have 30 skill points to spend.
I'll see if i can pull the quote.

ArchivedUser

Intrepid have said they are also going to go for a "contained" action bar with fewer than 30 skills on it. Source: Deltias Gaming Livestream Q&A

ArchivedUser

juschmaster said:

Uao said:

@Chudyie
somewhere at/just before pax.
You wont be abel to use 30 skills however.
Instead you will be abel to choose 11-12 out of these.
He also said at some point that it will require about 2 weeks of effort to change your choice.

2 weeeeeks ``? 
ashes already  died for me if that is true ... 

*offers @juschmaster a pillow to sob into* I'm Sure it'll be a fair method, ie; allow you a day to 'test' your choices before final commitment, but who knows... Maybe they're all secret evil over lords...