Is combat going to be floaty / unresponsive?

Hey all, just wanted to point out some of my own observations from the gameplay video from PAX.    I realise that this was pre pre pre alpha gameplay and that the game still requires a lot of work.  

I just wanted to point out however that although I have not attended PAX and tried the game myself, I found that from looking at the character's movement in combat, it appeared to be a little floaty and unresponsive.  I'd also love to see it being far more impactful. 

The projectile spells and arrows from Mages and Rangers also seem to be ridiculously slow and could use a significant increase in velocity.  

Once again, I know this is super pre alpha, but I just thought this needs to be looked into by the devs as combat will definitely be the #1 criticism.  I personally don't mind playing a Tab target game.  ArcheAge was Tab Target, and while that game has a tremendous amount of cons, mostly revolving around their marketing model,  the combat itself was absolutely some of the best i've seen in MMORPG despite it being Tab Target.  Character movement and skills were very responsive and the combat was extremely impactful!  I hope to see something similar in Ashes of Creation once it is closer to being a finished product.  Right now, it reminded me a lot of ESO's floaty and unresponsive combat.

Did anyone else have that impression or am I just being too picky?
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Comments

  • I also had the vibe that something was off, now I get what it was. It's just this energy, some boom that was missing. What causes that?
  • I also had the vibe that something was off, now I get what it was. It's just this energy, some boom that was missing. What causes that?
    Sounds, visuals, subtle effects.  I've played MMOs where the spells look almost identical to another game, but just didn't have that "oomph".  When I compared them side by side (not literally, but by critically looking at each one), the one where the combat felt visceral and fun had subtle impact effects and sounds.  A small area of radial blur around the impact of the fireball, a meatier sound when the sword strikes the opponent.
  • I also had the vibe that something was off, now I get what it was. It's just this energy, some boom that was missing. What causes that?
    Two years of development, testing and tuning is what's missing.
  • Darshx1 said:

    The projectile spells and arrows from Mages and Rangers also seem to be ridiculously slow and could use a significant increase in velocity.  

    I do agree. Especially that archer was really slow, the arrows were moving like magic.
    Mage is boring for me right now, and I play mage as main all the time. All of the skills are very heavy. Movements are too realistic(in negative way) like running doing magic, it's like a random person walking down the street kinda motion so it's slow, not Jackie Chen alike.
  • lexmax said:
    I also had the vibe that something was off, now I get what it was. It's just this energy, some boom that was missing. What causes that?
    Two years of development, testing and tuning is what's missing.
    I get that, I was actually genuinely wondering which elements were missing to make it look better. It wasn't meant to be criticism.
  • 1: Watched a vid where someone suggested the floatiness is due to UnrealEngine 4. felt responsive to me - though the control layout felt clunky.

    2: I played Ranger at PAX. Arrow velocity felt fine to me. Combat speed is designed to be faster than WoW and slower than BDO.

    3: Ashes is hybrid tab-target and action.
  • Dygz said:
    1: Watched a vid where someone suggested the floatiness is due to UnrealEngine 4. felt responsive to me - though the control layout felt clunky.

    2: I played Ranger at PAX. Arrow velocity felt fine to me. Combat speed is designed to be faster than WoW and slower than BDO.

    3: Ashes is hybrid tab-target and action.
    Hmm. The projectile speed is definitely too slow. Even more noticeable in their video where they introduce each class as they show a different camera angle and it's quite obvious that velocity will need to be tweaked especially if they want the combat to feel faster than WoW.  Hope they manage to bring the combat up to par with Archage's combat. ;)
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2017
    Playing it, it's already faster than WoW and slower than BDO.
    Ranger shots are considerably quicker than the basic attack when combos are completed or when using Sniper's Eye.
  • Dygz said:
    Playing it, it's already faster than WoW and slower than BDO.
    Ranger shots are considerably quicker than the basic attack when combos are completed or when using Sniper's Eye.
    This is good to hear.  BDO is fun, but the speed expected for chaining combos is something my old arse just can't do. (this speed is usually only expected for PvP, tho, so that's not too big a prob)
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2017
    Dygz said:
    Playing it, it's already faster than WoW and slower than BDO.
    Ranger shots are considerably quicker than the basic attack when combos are completed or when using Sniper's Eye.


    Just watch this vid at 4:40 for Mage and 5:50 for ranger. You can clearly see that some skills are way too slow. Heck. Even the tank's pull seems clunky and slow a t 3:50. That chain spear should travel much faster to its target IMO.

    Check out some of ArcheAge's combat and see how impactful it feels.  I hope that Ashes manages to make their combat just as impactful and fast paced.

  • lmao
    I played Ranger at PAX. The vid in that link doesn't necessarily convey what actual combat is like.
    Power Shot, for instance, lasts as long as you want it to. You don't have to charge it all the way to max if you don't want to.
    Sniper's Eye -the four arrows in the ground- does increased damage... which works best if you combine that with weapon combos (which are quick).
    And, of course, the Ultimate does massive damage.

    Some moves will be relatively slow.
    Ashes is an MMORPG; not an FPS or a MOBA.
    It's first pass iteration for many of the PAX abilities, like Lasso.
    Speeds will be adjusted all through the alphas and betas.

    But, slow is subjective.
    May never be as fast as you want.
  • That blue-ish rangers magic arrow indeed feels like some slow-ish bird flying from spot A to spot B, rather then velocity what arrow should feel like.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2017
    Which Ranger ability - Mark Arrow?
    Why does it matter if it appears to be slowish?
    It's an instant cast, tab-target ability that has a cool-down.
  • Dygz said:
    Which Ranger ability - Mark Arrow?
    Why does it matter if it appears to be slowish?
    It's an instant cast, tab-target ability that has a cool-down.
    Why are you being so defensive?  People are actually trying to provide some constructive criticism which will only improve the game in the long run.  If someone thinks it matters that it appears too slow, then it probably matters, because improving on things like that will make the combat feel more responsive, less clunky and slow and probably more impactful, which will also appeal to a larger audience.
    We all want this game to succeed after all.   

    I'm not saying that they will change anything based on the feedback they receive in this thread.. but if enough ppl comment about the way combat  feels and looks, I'd imagine that the devs will try to make it more appealing.
  • How is asking a question being offensive? 
    Last I checked, one did so when one could not understand how the other party arrived at that conclusion and wants to know why.
  • @Ziltch @Darshx1

    You have to understand, @Dygz is one of the prominent community members and his opinions is worth like 500 opinions of normal people like you and me.

    Don't try to fight it, It's just how the world works.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2017
    Darshx1 said:
    Dygz said:
    Which Ranger ability - Mark Arrow?
    Why does it matter if it appears to be slowish?
    It's an instant cast, tab-target ability that has a cool-down.
    Why are you being so defensive?  People are actually trying to provide some constructive criticism which will only improve the game in the long run.  If someone thinks it matters that it appears too slow, then it probably matters, because improving on things like that will make the combat feel more responsive, less clunky and slow and probably more impactful, which will also appeal to a larger audience.
    We all want this game to succeed after all.   

    I'm not saying that they will change anything based on the feedback they receive in this thread.. but if enough ppl comment about the way combat  feels and looks, I'd imagine that the devs will try to make it more appealing.
    I'm not being defensive. I'm asking you to please explain why the appearance of velocity matters to you if the ability is instant cast and tab-target such that the target can't move out of the way.

    I understand why someone would care if Power Shot is slow, since you actually have to take time to cast it.
    And I understand frustration if the interval between auto-attack/primary attack feels slow.
    I didn't say anything like - "It doesn't matter, that is a worthless observation."
    I'm asking you to share more detailed feedback.

    I don't even know which Ranger ability you're referring to: Bow's Combo or Marked Arrow. That would help everyone understand what you mean by "slow".

    But, regardless it's first iteration... animation speeds will continue to be tweaked all during alpha and beta.
    Early feedback is great - just don't fret that the devs think the current speeds are perfect.
  • Gothix said:
    @Ziltch @Darshx1

    You have to understand, @Dygz is one of the prominent community members and his opinions is worth like 500 opinions of normal people like you and me.

    Don't try to fight it, It's just how the world works.
    if you saw the about of disagrees he had before the patch you would not be saying that ^^
  • Dygz said:
    Darshx1 said:
    Dygz said:
    Which Ranger ability - Mark Arrow?
    Why does it matter if it appears to be slowish?
    It's an instant cast, tab-target ability that has a cool-down.
    Why are you being so defensive?  People are actually trying to provide some constructive criticism which will only improve the game in the long run.  If someone thinks it matters that it appears too slow, then it probably matters, because improving on things like that will make the combat feel more responsive, less clunky and slow and probably more impactful, which will also appeal to a larger audience.
    We all want this game to succeed after all.   

    I'm not saying that they will change anything based on the feedback they receive in this thread.. but if enough ppl comment about the way combat  feels and looks, I'd imagine that the devs will try to make it more appealing.
    I'm not being defensive. I'm asking you to please explain why the appearance of velocity matters to you if the ability is instant cast and tab-target such that the target can't move out of the way.

    I understand why someone would care if Power Shot is slow, since you actually have to take time to cast it.
    And I understand frustration if the interval between auto-attack/primary attack feels slow.
    I didn't say anything like - "It doesn't matter, that is a worthless observation."
    I'm asking you to share more detailed feedback.

    I don't even know which Ranger ability you're referring to: Bow's Combo or Marked Arrow. That would help everyone understand what you mean by "slow".

    But, regardless it's first iteration... animation speeds will continue to be tweaked all during alpha and beta.
    Early feedback is great - just don't fret that the devs think the current speeds are perfect.
    It matters to me because I like combat to feel fast paced, impactful, visceral and responsive.  I've played every MMO under the sun and unfortunately, many MMO players have as well.  Its an extremely over saturated market and most players will not give this game a second glance if they try it and it's not up to their expectations.

    I simply want this game to do everything right.. and do it the first time so that players who try it for the first time will want more and won't simply move on to the next MMO, as many of us have been doing for the past 10 years.. (or longer).
  • I'm not sure that really answered my question. Especially since I still don't know which blue-ish ability seems slow to you: Bow's Combo or Marked Arrow.
    Pace and feeling responsive are subjective.
    Much like "immersion" is subjective.

    I guess we'll just have to see if your vision of too slow matches the devs' vision of too slow.
    Thanks for the answer, though!!!
    Much appreciated.


  • Gothix said:
    @Ziltch @Darshx1

    You have to understand, @Dygz is one of the prominent community members and his opinions is worth like 500 opinions of normal people like you and me.

    Don't try to fight it, It's just how the world works.
    Shallow statement. Let's all hand the forum to him and leave, then? Let's remove General Discussion and only make him launch threads and write opinions about AOC.

    There are also other PAX players here and around the social media being a prominent community member complaining about several things, so what? Aren't their opinions worth of 500 opinions of normal people? What is the thing to be with "prominent community member"? I saw videos of PAX footage, and projectiles are indeed slow.

    It has the same speed dynamic with WOW on projectiles


    Because of cast speed and AOC looks slower actually.

    Not to mention his choice of gameplay doesn't equal to the rest of thousands out there gonna play the game. 
  • Darshx1 said:
    Dygz said:
    Darshx1 said:
    Dygz said:
    Which Ranger ability - Mark Arrow?
    Why does it matter if it appears to be slowish?
    It's an instant cast, tab-target ability that has a cool-down.
    Why are you being so defensive?  People are actually trying to provide some constructive criticism which will only improve the game in the long run.  If someone thinks it matters that it appears too slow, then it probably matters, because improving on things like that will make the combat feel more responsive, less clunky and slow and probably more impactful, which will also appeal to a larger audience.
    We all want this game to succeed after all.   

    I'm not saying that they will change anything based on the feedback they receive in this thread.. but if enough ppl comment about the way combat  feels and looks, I'd imagine that the devs will try to make it more appealing.
    I'm not being defensive. I'm asking you to please explain why the appearance of velocity matters to you if the ability is instant cast and tab-target such that the target can't move out of the way.

    I understand why someone would care if Power Shot is slow, since you actually have to take time to cast it.
    And I understand frustration if the interval between auto-attack/primary attack feels slow.
    I didn't say anything like - "It doesn't matter, that is a worthless observation."
    I'm asking you to share more detailed feedback.

    I don't even know which Ranger ability you're referring to: Bow's Combo or Marked Arrow. That would help everyone understand what you mean by "slow".

    But, regardless it's first iteration... animation speeds will continue to be tweaked all during alpha and beta.
    Early feedback is great - just don't fret that the devs think the current speeds are perfect.
    It matters to me because I like combat to feel fast paced, impactful, visceral and responsive.  I've played every MMO under the sun and unfortunately, many MMO players have as well.  Its an extremely over saturated market and most players will not give this game a second glance if they try it and it's not up to their expectations.

    I simply want this game to do everything right.. and do it the first time so that players who try it for the first time will want more and won't simply move on to the next MMO, as many of us have been doing for the past 10 years.. (or longer).
    As much as I appreciate the comment on Ranger arrows feeling slow, or sluggish. And in a way they are. I think it actually works to make it more fluid, not as a spectator, but as a player. The animation seems to last about as long as the GCD. Whilst I agree it looks to be a little on the slow side, people whom have voiced similar concerns and visited PAX to play, say the experience is vastly different when playing. This alleviated some of my concerns.

    So, instead, I'll ask you, how do you propose to change it? 


  • Gothix said:
    @Ziltch @Darshx1

    You have to understand, @Dygz is one of the prominent community members and his opinions is worth like 500 opinions of normal people like you and me.

    Don't try to fight it, It's just how the world works.
    Holy cow dude. 

    I mean you're not wrong, but damn.
  • Karthos said:
    Gothix said:
    @Ziltch @Darshx1

    You have to understand, @Dygz is one of the prominent community members and his opinions is worth like 500 opinions of normal people like you and me.

    Don't try to fight it, It's just how the world works.
    Holy cow dude. 

    I mean you're not wrong, but damn.
    tell me about it ^^
  • @Gothix
     ... WTH ?!    :D 
    I mean, i understand the Joke but ... seriously ?!??  :D
  • Dolphin said:
    Gothix said:
    @Ziltch @Darshx1

    You have to understand, @Dygz is one of the prominent community members and his opinions is worth like 500 opinions of normal people like you and me.

    Don't try to fight it, It's just how the world works.
    Shallow statement. Let's all hand the forum to him and leave, then? Let's remove General Discussion and only make him launch threads and write opinions about AOC.
    I am pretty sure that post from Gothix was overflowing with sarcasm.
    :p
  • Dygz said:
    Dolphin said:
    Gothix said:
    @Ziltch @Darshx1

    You have to understand, @Dygz is one of the prominent community members and his opinions is worth like 500 opinions of normal people like you and me.

    Don't try to fight it, It's just how the world works.
    Shallow statement. Let's all hand the forum to him and leave, then? Let's remove General Discussion and only make him launch threads and write opinions about AOC.
    I am pretty sure that post from Gothix was overflowing with sarcasm.
    :p
    To be honest, I didn't sense any sarcasm.

    It'd be a forced try at best, if the intention itself is a sarcasm/joke.
  • Well, maybe @Gothix will let us know.
  • Nah, I just became "popular around these parts" with 250 likes badge. I don't want to ruin it. xD
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