[Podcast] From The Ashes Episode 21: Alpha Zero Details

ArchivedUser

Camelot Unchained does name plates really well. You only see them in a frontal arc and they have a good drop off so even tho theyre can be hindreds of players on screen you see the logical information on front of you.

removing nameplates completely removes the feeling of an mmo. They could just as easily be npcs when you dont see who they are.

But being able to recognize names or guilds in game is the equivalent to recognizing peoples faces irl. 

ArchivedUser

Have you even played a MMO that didn't have nameplates? Did that feature really make it hard for you to accept the game was a MMO and what does that even mean?

I don't feel like nameplates are a defining feature of an mmo. Yes, most mmos use them but i think they are far from necessary. You can still see people's names by clicking on them and without them always present you will be recognizing them more by there character model rather then the text floating above their head.

I'd rather recognize someone by seeing this:

Then this:

ArchivedUser

@Ziz
If there are multiple types of Armor-Pieces for each Level - all being diverse & differentiating of Attributes/ Stats/ Appearence/ and NOT for each level ...

• Such as .... if there are 75 Armor Sets for each Level - all obtainable different ways via ...  in-depth-Crafting, RNG-Loot-Drop, Treasure Chests, Mining/ Digging/ Excavating, Treasure Hunting ( Caves, Temples, Ancient Ruins, Mountains, Underground, Underwater, Etc ... ) 
• These could all be conveyed differently for Archetype - further making that Archetype's Journey entirely unique

Then Gearing won't be gated by Level - as long as their diversity in the type of Attributes/ Stats the Armor grants.

Henceforth, you can recognize someone via by their Armor. If you want to " confirm you suspicions " .... then you click on the Character. 

• maybe  Left-click OR Right-Click 

And then the name will appear above the HP bar

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
EDIT: Wanted to clarify

• Lvl 1 = 75 Armor Pieces ( Bracers, Leggings, Boots, Chestplate, etc ... for that this level alone )
• Lvl 2 = 75 Armor Pieces ( same as above )
• Lvl 3 = 75 Armor Pieces ( same as above )
• ( maybe more Armor Pieces ? like 100 ? )

( Hence: Level not being the deciding factor on whom is a victor in PvP not PvE )

ArchivedUser

McStackerson said:

I'd rather recognize someone by seeing this:

Other people will likely be wearing the same gear with the same weapon.
Also, people frequently change weapons and armor.
Lots of people would rather not have health bars.
What we want isn't necessarily feasible with today's level of tech.

ArchivedUser

My understanding from the last Live Stream was if you don't want nameplates/health bars you can turn them off and won't see it on others.  However, those that did not turn them off will still see yours.

ArchivedUser

@dygz You can always click on someone to see their name. Character appearances will also start to very more as we get more items, dyes, and cosmetics.

I love how they changed gathering to try to make it feel more organic and i'd like it if they took a similar approach to characters and monsters. 

ArchivedUser

Yeah, clicking on a whole bunch of people trying to find who you're looking for would get old quick.
Easy enough to toggle off nameplates if /when you don't want to see them.

No nameplates for resources is probably fine, although I suspect that there will be some method of tracking/highlighting what we need to find specifically for task completion - probably via utility skills.

ArchivedUser

But when/why do you need to use the floating names to look for people? If you need to invite someone you are probably going to do it through chat functions. You will use party/raid frames to heal people. If there are so many people on your screen then it's already going to be hard to use the names to find people. If it makes it harder for you to find a target it group pvp then good. If people get focused less and last longer then they will generally have more fun. 

ArchivedUser

Another great podcast @Aggelos!

ArchivedUser

McStackerson said:

But when/why do you need to use the floating names to look for people? If you need to invite someone you are probably going to do it through chat functions. You will use party/raid frames to heal people. If there are so many people on your screen then it's already going to be hard to use the names to find people. If it makes it harder for you to find a target it group pvp then good. If people get focused less and last longer then they will generally have more fun. 

Wow. People are really obsessed with Grouping!!!

If I'm at a party, I'm going to want to be able to look across the room and see who is attending.
And I'm going to want to be able to recognize who each person is - even if I'm not Grouping with them. Regardless of what they might be wearing for the event.

Same thing if I'm wandering around town.
I'm going to want to be able to recognize the other players in the area, regardless of what they might be wearing at them moment - and regardless of whether I want to invite them to Group.

And clicking on each person to learn who people are is going to get old really quickly.
Easy enough to just toggle off nameplates if you don't want to see nameplates.

ArchivedUser

Dygz said:

And clicking on each person to learn who people are is going to get old really quickly.
Easy enough to just toggle off nameplates if you don't want to see nameplates.

I agree, if you don want to see nameplates just toggle them. 
Ziz said:

But being able to recognize names or guilds in game is the equivalent to recognizing peoples faces irl. 

You nailed it, I hear the argument for people who say making a unique character will be enough to differentiate between players, but nameplates are a must in my opinion.

ArchivedUser

I may be coming off as feeling really strongly about this but i don't. I'm just questioning the norm here. If you guys use them then cool but i want to question how much they actually get used for the purpose you claim. I understand what they can be used for but do you really use them like that?

Turning them off only disadvantages you so i don't see that as viable. I don't think they are useful for reading names but they act well as little flags showing me someone is coming.

As i said, If people really want them then cool. I just think it's one of those things we have had for so long that it feels mandatory but i don't know if it actually is. 

I don't think this makes or breaks but when looking at these 2 pictures which one do you think looks better. As i said before, are you really using these names to find people. 



Once again, i don't think this will make or break a game, i'm just think that they don't think they add much and it looks better. This is little but i think it improves the experience.

Maybe i need to talk to my UX co-workers on this. Maybe i'm insane.

ArchivedUser

@McStackerson I think the first image looks much better, but (yeah you knew there was a but) I think the second image could be massively improved by having options to not just toggle off nameplates but to toggle off the individual aspects:

• Guildnames
• Titles
• Images

This would leave you with just the players name, if you still wanted that but none of the ancillary information.

Then you could choose what you wanted. For instance you could turn everything off except Guildname - if that was all you were looking at in PvP. 

You could set your options, and then toggle on and off when you want. I know I will have them off for most of the time and flick em on if I am in a PvP situation.

ArchivedUser

Personally, nameplates are required because the level of detail in games hasn't reached a point where I could differentiate one player from another. You need a way to go "ok that guy in T3 Kaelar Heavy is an enemy vs my buddy who rolled the same class/race and did similar if not the same character creation options."

ArchivedUser

I don't understand why toggling off nameplates would be an always or never endeavor.
I toggle off the HUD when I am taking a screenshot or shoot vids for machinima.
And then toggle the HUD back on for the rest of the time.

When I attend parties, I want to know who else is there.
Especially, true at themed costume parties.
And... how many people are going to be running around in the same KS costume or Summer costume during social gatherings? I expect quite a few.

And, again, even just hanging around town - I want to be able to easily recognize other players - regardless of whether the may have changed into different armor or outfits.
Especially, if there are people from the forums or social media who I know by name, but have never met before in-game.

Socializing with players after podcasts and during parties and community events is more important to me than any combat - especially if we can have those social events impact the narrative - voting for government leaders or which buildings to build to expand the town, etc.
I'm not always going to be wearing my adventuring armor - and I hope plenty of other people I interact with regularly also are so immersed in the story of the world that they change out of adventuring gear when they are just hanging around town or attending social events.

I typically use a tracking ability if I want to track enemies; not nameplates.

ArchivedUser

You said it's required so i now feel i must argue but first, good job on the video. I understand people want it and that is cool but i don't think it's required for MMOs. That is what i'm making my argument, removing hovering name tags does not suddenly make the game unplayable. Yes, it might change how you play a little but i don't know if it's a bad change. Have you ever played a game without nameplates and it presented a issue? If you currently play any MMOs, try removing them and playing the game. Yes, you might play a little different but is it really unplayable?

In darkfall, not only did we not have nameplates but we had friendly fire and it wasn't an issue. Despite not having names, it wasn't hard seeing who was friend or foe. The person attacking you was usually your enemy and the person attacking them was usually your friend. You might make a mistake here or there but it wasn't a big issue and became part of the game. 

An alternative options could be adding floating indicators above party, raid and/or guild members so you easily know who is on your side and players can assume people who do not have indicator might be an enemy. Yes, it's adding stuff back in but in a minimal way. You are cutting down on a lot of the clutter.

As i said, i'm trying to focus my argument on the idea that floating nameplates are required.

Sorry, it's friday and i have had a lot of coffee.

ArchivedUser

I would not play an MMORPG that had no nameplates because I would not know who I'm interacting with and clicking on each person to figure out if I know who they are would be too much effort.
Poor game design. Not worth playing.

If all I cared about was who is friend and who is foe, nameplate would not be important, I suppose.
What I care most about is recognizing which specific friends are around and which specific adversaries are around and which specific enemies are around.
Because my interactions with players are more intimate than merely Group or attack.

When I'm walking around town, or even exploring in the wilderness, I need to be able to easily recognize -
"Hey! That is Isarii over there." or
"Cool! Aggelos is here!" or
"Thais!!! I remember seeing her on From the Ashes!!!" or
"Nice! McStackerson from PAX!!"


If I have reason to cut down on clutter, and some times there is, I toggle off the HUD.
In Ashes, the devs want us to be able to customize the UI, element by element. So, we should be able to just toggle off the nameplates and leave the rest of the HUD if we want to. As well as turn of other elements and/or resize and move them around the screen - if we wish to reduce clutter.

ArchivedUser

McStackerson said:

I'd rather recognize someone by seeing this:

Then this:

@McStackerson, I prefer optional nameplates myself.   Here is a line-up of 3 players, which one of these is your friend you recognize.    A, B, C or D for none of them... Answer:  Who knows until you turn on nameplates.