[Podcast] From The Ashes Episode 21: Alpha Zero Details

ArchivedUser

From The Ashes Episode 21: Alpha Zero Details  - The Ashes of Creation podcast produced by The Dungeon Crawler Network! Join Aggelos and Thais, the Founders of The Dungeon Crawler Network, as they bear witness the rebirth of the MMORPG genre from the ashes of an industry that has left gamers behind!

This week, Aggelos is joined by Thais for a special Pillars of Creation segment where the pair sit down to discuss the latest live stream as well as all of the Alpha Zero details that were released! They also take the time to empty out the mailbag and answer a couple of letters sent in by the community.

If you would like to join The Dungeon Crawler Network Guild in Ashes of Creation, follow the link below:

The Dungeon Crawler Network Guild - Application

Show Notes:

• Pillars of Creation: September 15th Live Stream Recap
• Pillars of Creation: Alpha Zero Details
• Mailbag

Podcast Information:

• Your Show Hosts: Aggelos (@Aggelos_WoF), Thais (@TwitQueenThais)
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ArchivedUser

Loved the episode, as always! Some wonderful new information for me

ArchivedUser

Great podcast as always @Aggelos

ArchivedUser

Thank you @Ariatras and @lexmax I wanted to get through some of the mail we had received so since there wasn't a ton of news from Intrepid I figured we could fit it all in!

ArchivedUser

I'm with @Thais concerning no safe place to catch your breath.  Nice podcast.

ArchivedUser

T-Elf said:

I'm with @Thais concerning no safe place to catch your breath.  Nice podcast.

Thanks @T-Elf I know the idea of PvE vs PvP is a coming up topic! I just need to find the guests that can make a nice counter argument to my pro-pvp stance

ArchivedUser

To be honest, I would very much like the nodes to be a safe place. And I mean the settlement, village, city, metropolis, etc.

That is, if it isn't under siege.

ArchivedUser

Ariatras said:

To be honest, I would very much like the nodes to be a safe place. And I mean the settlement, village, city, metropolis, etc.

That is, if it isn't under siege.

I agree to an extent. I wouldn't say 100% safe but something like ESO with guards or High-Sec space in EVE Online. I, personally, believe it should be a possibility to kill anyone anywhere but the danger should be ALOT higher in towns/cities.

ArchivedUser

Aggelos said:

Ariatras said:

To be honest, I would very much like the nodes to be a safe place. And I mean the settlement, village, city, metropolis, etc.

That is, if it isn't under siege.

I agree to an extent. I wouldn't say 100% safe but something like ESO with guards or High-Sec space in EVE Online. I, personally, believe it should be a possibility to kill anyone anywhere but the danger should be ALOT higher in towns/cities.

That sounds pretty reasonable to me.

ArchivedUser

I would think so but there are some people who are adamantly opposed to ANY form of PvP that isn't 100% consensual. I want to have this discussion with them and hear why they are so opposed.

ArchivedUser

Nice cast as usual. It is one thing to see the livestream, but so nice to hear other people's spins on things as well - what is important to some and not to others.

Showing gatherable resources as sparklies is one of the more lamentable parts of the devolution of the genre. So many things really have been added that insult the intelligence of the player (quest helping, as you alluded to, is another major one).

I remember really honing my skills on detecting the herbs in WoW and knowing spawn locations. The mines were always easy to spot, but some of those herbs were maddeningly well hidden – even when you had the yellow Gathering dot on your minimap, sometimes they were hard to spot (looking at you Golden Sansam, so hard to spot some of these little buggers in Un’Goro Crater). 

But the feeling of triumph when you found and gathered it was way out of proportion for what would be expected from picking a herb. These are the things, these small triumphs, that stick with you a decade later.

I am really looking forward to resources being just another part of the world. I am unsure about the “gathering mode” though. I don’t see why we need that. Just don’t add sparklies, don’t make them super obvious and make their spawn locations follow game-world logic and voila, beautiful system. I don’t think the introduction of an artificial game mechanic is necessary – but I will wait to see what this really entails.

ArchivedUser

Aggelos said:

I would think so but there are some people who are adamantly opposed to ANY form of PvP that isn't 100% consensual. I want to have this discussion with them and hear why they are so opposed.

Simple solution, On the login window have the message displayed "By logging in you consent to all and any forms of PvP." Automatically all forms of PvP are then consented to

ArchivedUser

Very well put @Bajjer! The hand holding in MMORPGs has become insulting lately. One of the things I look forward to most when Ashes of Creation launches is the amount of people who are so spoiled by modern MMORPGs that they are standing in town lost as to what to do next because there is no glowy, map highlight, or autopathing to help them.

ArchivedUser

DeathsProxy said:

Aggelos said:

I would think so but there are some people who are adamantly opposed to ANY form of PvP that isn't 100% consensual. I want to have this discussion with them and hear why they are so opposed.

Simple solution, On the login window have the message displayed "By logging in you consent to all and any forms of PvP." Automatically all forms of PvP are then consented to

Is it strange that I actually think, (despite the obvious satirical nature of your post) that this is a good idea?

ArchivedUser

Pretty sure thats why they say Online Interactions are not rated by the ESRB

ArchivedUser

@Aggelos
I agree 100% with the Nameplate issue

• In the PAX PvP , the Opponent's HP Bar is displayed at the Top of the Screen ... the Nameplates should viewed only once Clicked on the Character - and the Name should presented at the Top of Screen, above the Health Bar 
• ( image below )
• 
  
• Keep the Black Circle. Remove the Text in the Blue Circle ( Including Allies )
• Remove ANY Nameplates hovering above the Character Model

ArchivedUser

( Edited in above post )

ArchivedUser

The current design resembles the ESO UI alot. I would love the option to either hide nameplates/health bars directly above the head of a character. I know ESO didnt have that at launch and all the PvPers petitioned on the forums until they got them added.

ArchivedUser

Ariatras said:

DeathsProxy said:

Aggelos said:

I would think so but there are some people who are adamantly opposed to ANY form of PvP that isn't 100% consensual. I want to have this discussion with them and hear why they are so opposed.

Simple solution, On the login window have the message displayed "By logging in you consent to all and any forms of PvP." Automatically all forms of PvP are then consented to

Is it strange that I actually think, (despite the obvious satirical nature of your post) that this is a good idea?

Well it wouldn't be out of bounds. I mean thats the general philosophy EVE online had for years, by "undocking you consent to PvP" was a statement repeated often by EVE's community.

https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/topic/321526/2/  

Makes an interesting read.
Unfortunately in the last 2-3 years, changes have been made upon request and changed many mechanics 
behind the game to promote "social players" who suddenly dont want to engage in pvp (despite the game
having a very "Pro-PvP" stance for years).

Which is one of the main reasons EVE is in a steady decline atm. Which is a shame really, as it was
of the few Openworld PvP MMO bastions left imo, but ill stop myself before going on a rant about that.

And if it was officially stated by logging into the game that you consent or acknowledge that PvP can/will/might deter
some complaints that they got killed while picking flowers. Which is going to happen due to the nature of humans
and an openworld enviroment.

ArchivedUser

@Aggelos
I disagree about having the Nameplates being optional. 

• Nameplates are an eyesore
• Open-World PvP will become a joke if Nameplates can be directly above Players's head
• Lowest-Render Settings will put further emphasis on the Above Statement 
• ( Referencing @UnknownSystemError in above statement via link: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/36130/in-addition-to-climbing-mechanics#latest ) thank you @UnknownSystemError
• Breaks Immersion
• Too much of an advantage - it might as well be a ... " Sparkly " ( Referencing what " Thais " said in your Podcast )

Personally, i prefer playing the U.I being cleared-up as much as possible and it not looking Clunky - but that's enitirely preference that WON'T be a Game-Changer / deciding-factor of a Victor 

• i.e. Player A is not using Nameplates - thus giving a more realistic feel to it. Where as Player B is using it - and thus doesn't have look around - jsut needs to find a Nameplate that can be seen by " X " amount of distance
• Even if the Nameplate doesn't appear until very Close ... its still an eyesore & a slight advantage

ArchivedUser

I'm not saying I disagree with you @Eragale I'm saying if it isn't an option it will be added eventually. The PvPers will want nameplates and will pester until it gets added as I referenced what happened in ESO.

At least if it is an option you can hide it for yourself. Plus there is ALWAYS going to be the player addon/mod community that will add nameplates depending on how open the API is.

ArchivedUser

Nameplates are required because our senses in-game are not detailed enough to recognize people from a distance.
In real life, we have a wide variety of cues that simply won't be available in video games with the current level of tech.

Same reason why we have health bars.
Option to toggle-off unwanted UI elements.

ArchivedUser

I will protect @thais but I'm a healer so I can only do so much. I love pvp so you can just sit back and I'll smack people with my staff lol. 

Also for anyone who needs a safe place. I will have a spot in town or a freehold where you can take off your shoes and not get murdered. 

ArchivedUser

Aggelos said:

At least if it is an option you can hide it for yourself. Plus there is ALWAYS going to be the player addon/mod community that will add nameplates depending on how open the API is.

I am hoping there isn't an addon/mod community. If intrepid do things right, we won't need one. They have been pretty vocal about the customisability of their UI, so hopefully won't need any mods there.

I have just found that mods/addons, for the most part, don't actually enhance the gameplay, they just cheese the game mechanics and world, by making things easier and removing player agency.

They are great when the game is poorly designed (glares at Draenor) but quickly take over and become almost mandatory in so many situations. 

But I never really used em anyway. I maybe had one or two running sometimes but I knew people with over 30 constantly on.

ArchivedUser

Dygz said:.

" ... In real life, we have a wide variety of cues that simply won't be available in video games with the current level of tech ... "

There could be SFX queues

• Bushes Rummaging/ unsettling shaking ( not obviously, but slightly for 2 secs )
• Tree Branches Rummaging for about 2 Secs
• If Bards can cast illusions/ hallucinations,  the Camera-View could " Flicker " similar to a Horror-Game flicker ... not risking a Seizure ( via  epilepsy )  . But it'll definitely be Cleanse-able/ Cure-able.
•  If a Rogue is Stealth, the Grass could Slightly move - not necessarily give away the Location ... but rather a " near-Metal-Gear Solid  "  Style-Sneaking - to where ...if the Rogue steps on a Pile a Leaves, it'll be heard. Thus, giving the ... " victim "  slight chance .
• The weather could help identify where the Hidden-Rogue is at -  via Rain, Snow ( have you seen ... " Hollow Man " ? Below Link ... its an Old movie )
• ( 1:04- 1:12 )  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt0z5-Qgrh0 Feel to watch the whole thing ... but i really tried to fine a more subtle clip 

In short @Dygz ... if you can imagine it, it can be implemented into the MMO - so i would definitely not limit what this MMO could be by a mere Assumption - it is due-able. And i say this because its the Little things that Players will take notice of - it'll definitely make Ashes of Creation Stand-out.

HP bars are fine how it is in PvP & PvE, just not hovering over a Player's head

ArchivedUser

Aggelos said:.

" ... At least if it is an option you can hide it for yourself ... "

Eragale said:

• i.e. Player A is not using Nameplates - thus giving a more realistic feel to it. Where as Player B is using it - and thus doesn't have look around - jsut needs to find a Nameplate that can be seen by " X " amount of distance
• Even if the Nameplate doesn't appear until very Close ... its still an eyesore & a slight advantage

Point Proven.

Aggelos said:

" ... The PvPers will want nameplates and will pester until it gets added as I referenced what happened in ESO ... "

Then they aren't PvPers if they have to rely on a Nameplate to be competitive in PvP ? 

I don't get it ... if Players don't want another " Cookie-Cutter " / Copy&Paste MMO game ... then don't ask for more & more similarities from other MMOs - out of all the MMOs that came out in the past 10 years ... they ( inevitably ) have been trying to Copy WoW ... in more ways than one.

Intrepid is giving its Community the Chance to actually have some sort of Input/ feedback on what the Final Product could be before Launch - and it doesn't to be anything we've seen before - something entirely different from WoW.

• Even though some of the Races are similar ... the Tulnar more than Suffices for that because the Tulnar ... is like a 3-in-one.
• Mammalian, Reptilian and ... think it was Raptorian ? forget the last one ... but its basically a mixture of those 3 

" ... It all begins with a Notion, a Thought and a Sense of Inspiration ... because you never know where you'll get that inspiration from " 

ArchivedUser

Would a simple solution not work?

Player A - PvPer. He wants nameplates, as a result he turns them on.
Player B - PvPer. He seems alright without nameplates doesn't turn them on.

Player A cannot see player B's nameplate, as he didn't opt in.

Player C - PvPer. He finds himself agreeing with player A, and turns them on.

Player C can now see player A's nametag, and player A can see player C's nametag.

Neither of them can see Player B's nametag, but player B can't see theirs.


As for add-ons. I do not think AoC will allow them, I seem to remember vividly that Steven wrote such on Discord.

ArchivedUser

@Bajjer Regardless there will be addons given it will likely be against the ToS but people will still use them. Look at games like FFXIV and GW2. There are still addons via things like Overwolf overlays that I am sure we will see if the ability to have mods is not natively available.

ArchivedUser

Aggelos said:

@Bajjer Regardless there will be addons given it will likely be against the ToS but people will still use them. Look at games like FFXIV and GW2. There are still addons via things like Overwolf overlays that I am sure we will see if the ability to have mods is not natively available.

I only know Overwolf, but this overlay doesn't take info from the game, it just takes information from the third party program you're using, mumble was it? And "overlays" it onto the game. No such program can actually be used for things like Nameplates, unless they "inject" directly into the executable, which is a ban-able offence. 

ArchivedUser

Ariatras said:

Aggelos said:

@Bajjer Regardless there will be addons given it will likely be against the ToS but people will still use them. Look at games like FFXIV and GW2. There are still addons via things like Overwolf overlays that I am sure we will see if the ability to have mods is not natively available.

I only know Overwolf, but this overlay doesn't take info from the game, it just takes information from the third party program you're using, mumble was it? And "overlays" it onto the game. No such program can actually be used for things like Nameplates, unless they "inject" directly into the executable, which is a ban-able offence. 

You are correct. Though sometimes things like graphics injectors such as ReShade and SweetFX can do similar overlay style things and many times those types of programs are not ban-able.

ArchivedUser

Eragale said:

In short @Dygz ... if you can imagine it, it can be implemented into the MMO - so i would definitely not limit what this MMO could be by a mere Assumption - it is due-able. And i say this because its the Little things that Players will take notice of - it'll definitely make Ashes of Creation Stand-out.

HP bars are fine how it is in PvP & PvE, just not hovering over a Player's head

Nameplates are not required to detect that a human is present.
Nameplates are required to distinguish specific humans from others and easily recognize them as the specific person with whom you wish to interact (or avoid) - especially when the person is among a crowd.

All kinds of things that we can imagine that can't currently be implemented in MMORPGs because we lack the tech - and will continue to lack the tech for at least another decade or more.

We can imagine StoryBricks. We won't be getting anything that sophisticated in the next 5 years.