Finally giving this post a read.. and you hit the nail right on the head. With the little bit of alpha footage we have been shown, the animations already look a lot more smoother then I had first anticipated. I found that when I was watching Steven during the recent alpha live stream, the sounds that followed the animations could some refining. Maybe the sound interruptions were caused by something else, I am unsure. My hopes are high.
For spam-able or common things, less is more... but give me at least one stupidly crazy shinny to have now and then.... or an augment for it... or some kind of graphics setting so I can record a fun video full of the shinny, the go back to normal.
They need to make sure mages and such actually use the staffs and books lawd...
Dude, for real. It doesn't need to be flashy for everyone. Just myself. I like participating in group battles, but I don't need to see endless streams of fireworks from peoples skills and hands. Like if you hold a book and hover your hands over an open page. Your hand could use magic to pull words off of the page and have it coalesce into a spell. Nothing fancy. Just some cool glowing words that converge into some sort of ball or at the tip of my finger before the spell finally activates and discharges in a simple, yet powerful feeling manner.
As for OP's remarks...
I think the context matters. Generally, subtlety is the best. I don't think basic attacks with swords and spears should have crazy effects. At most a shiny glint effect highlighting the sheen or sharpness of the blade. Some skills with weapons should have effects like a charged up shot from an archer so you can visually identify where it came from -- if you cant see an archer hiding behind trees nearby picking you off, it would be aggravating. Unfortunately some skills require flashy effects. Like that giant transparent shield wall that rises in front of the tanky character. I personally hate this effect because it looks more like magic than a skill. If this were replaced with an effect and animation of the shield slamming the ground and the ground rippling and distorting, I'd be more content (especially because a wall with sharp edges is such an inorganic looking structure), however I feel like the very concept of that skill is hard to animate and design a subtle effect for, so that's probably going to be stuck as is.
That said, subtlety is key here, I agree. In my own perfect world, the only thing with flashy effects would be large magic. But even with something like shooting lighting... I'd rather see a distortion in my hand or at the tip of my staff followed by well designed bolts of lightning, not a torrential storm of electrons akin to the descent of Thor. A weak spell should look weaker than a stronger one, but not feel lame. Like if you have a lvl 1 lightning, it would be a one or two stream jolt of electricity. As this skill levels up, the amount of forking and turbulence in the effect can increase, but at no point would it look like I transform into Lightning Incarnate and launch a blast of pure energy that would in reality obliterate a home... all to only deal a 1/16 dip in someone's health bar.
On the other hand, think of how it would be to play a minstrel. It would be miserable without effects. Your entire gameplay experience would amount to you running around with a lute. A support character like that should actually stand out more in my opinion because they actually have large influence on group battles. As do Clerics. These should be more visible because they are responsible for the sustain and CC of a group battle.
So in my mind it should be very subtle with physical weapons and more visible the more magical you get, with support classes being the most flashy (also to make the support classes more fun). However, it should be artfully crafted. Every swing of a sword should feel consequential -- as opposed to a dramatic flurry of blurred, energetic blades to tick only a small percentage of health downward. The subtle distortion of magical energy in your hand, followed by the physical realization of a simple bolt of lightning can be perfect if the tension is crafted properly within the animation, effects, and sound effects. No magic or skill should be overly dramatic save for some sort of "ultimate" ability or some awesome group synchronized ability (like some insane spell that can't be done without 3 people in a small area to queue up for it together).
I'd like to see it vary. I want my end game spells to be far more epic looking than my level 1 spells. If the spell has an awesome description but looks like shit casting it that is a huge let down. I would love to see ritual magic and rare spells....even a bit of customization would be nice. It can truly get boring casting the same spells over and over again.
While I do like a bit of flash I'd prefer not to run the risk of an epileptic seizure any time there's more than one person on the screen. I've played numerous games where I had to turn my graphics down just because there were so many spell effects\explosions on screen that I couldn't see what was going on. There needs to be some balance between making characters feel powerful (let's face it...this is what the flash is about) and not hindering gameplay.
We need a good balance of flashy effects and simple ones. Simple skills such as fireball maybe don't need to be as flashy, while AOE attacks and more powerful spells should look cool.
Personally I like flashy effects, I've never had any problems with lag when fighting world bosses in gw2 like some of you mentioned before. But that's because I have a good computer, so I can understand why people are worried about it. I doubt they would be able to do it for launch since it takes so much time to create multiple variations of the same animation, but if they added a slider or "Low, Medium, High, Ultra" dropdown for effects, that would be super useful.
It would be cool to see different scales for the effects of similar attacks with different strengths. For example simple lighting strike would be really basic, but once you unlock a more powerful version the visuals will have a bigger scale and look cooler.
One thing that concerns me though, I'm not really liking the effects of skills they have shown. They look really cartoonish and kind of out of place. I wish they would look more realistic like in BDO.
I would like the skills to be a logical and natural type of flashiness. It shouls feel right and realistic
What is the logical and realistic falshiness of magic?
A fireball hitting a target with effect being a bursting flame ball and not a supernova?
Of course, as we learned in school that’s how fireball spells behave in real life.
I learned in the totally real AMU (Advanced Magic University) that you just have to be powerful enough to create a supernova from a fireball. Therefore a supernova is realistic.
@Atama Why are u linking magical definition to me? Im not questioning or attempting to devalue the point of view of others without reason. I'm not questioning definition of magical animations as u are questioning "logical and realistic animations"
You should atleast attempt to justify the faults in logical animations or the positives in magical animations.
@Atama Why are u linking magical definition to me? Im not questioning or attempting to devalue the point of view of others without reason. I'm not questioning definition of magical animations as u are questioning "logical and realistic animations"
You should atleast attempt to justify the faults in logical animations or the positives in magical animations.
You started the childishness by quoting definitions of words that any literate person on a message board would know. Tit for tat.
The point is that magic is by its nature illogical and unrealistic. That’s not to say that you can’t attempt to make it resemble real world phenomena; fire burns, ice freezes, electricity conducts, etc. But with magic you aren’t limited to what what happens with similar real world phenomena. Why can’t the ice burn or lightning freeze? Why can’t a fireball spell explode into a supernova effect? Magic by its very definition (heh) enables the impossible.
And, since what makes magic magical is its impossibility, it’s not only not illogical for it to diverge from how physics work in real life but it’s arguably more logical for it to. Or at the very least, it’s no less logical for the supernatural to diverge from natural laws. Appealing to logic and realism is not rational when it comes to magic.
Well, for everyone who would like for the animations of spells and abilities to be less flashy, I've got good news: The current animations are intentionally exaggerated to make them easier to work with from a developmental point of view. I assume they will become subtler once development has reached a certain point.
As for the arguments for or against flashy effects - at a certain point, effects will interfere with visibility and enjoyment in a game designed around large-scale world conflict.
Atama said: Of course, as we learned in school that’s how fireball spells behave in real life.
Thats how a ball of burning matter would behave in real life. You could say that magicians can control the energy in matter and thus make more sense.
logical
/ˈlɒdʒɪk(ə)l/
adjective
(of an action, decision, etc.) expected or sensible under the circumstances.
realistic
/rɪəˈlɪstɪk/
adjective
having or showing a sensible and practical idea of what can be achieved or expected.
magical /ˈmajək(ə)l/ adjective
of, relating to, or having special powers to make things happen that would usually be impossible.
We can do this all day if you want to be stupid.
I’m not interested in Ashes of Definition.
I think the idea here is that size does matter. We know what fire looks like, and we know what balls look like. All that's really left is determining the size and "flashiness" of the spell. If it's a massive, blazing inferno of death and destruction, but its effects are just a weak AoE, it will seem silly.
Plus, it also makes you question why a guy with a sharpened stick of metal can deal equal or greater amounts of damage. If you can be beaten by a guy with a sword and a couple fancy fighting moves, your magic probably shouldn't look like a mini-nuke. Exactly what the spell looks like is up to intrepid, but its visible severity should be about equal to its effect.
I do like the idea of having the appearance match the effect. A mage’s firebolt spell which can be cast as a “standard” attack and does little damage should probably look like small blasts of fire. The mega blast spell which has a 10 minute cool down and can clear out a whole group of enemies in one blow could look like a an intense flash of light followed by a mushroom cloud.
It seems like most people agree that spell effects shouldn't be exaggerated in severity, which also looks like what most people are arguing about... sort of. I think some people are arguing for spells being (for lack of a better word) prettier - i.e. having complex, "magical" effects - while the opposition is looking for realism in regards to severity and impact. The thing is... these ideas don't really contradict, so no one is really right or wrong - or even actually arguing, for that matter.
You can have spells that look absolutely gorgeous with magical animations and effects that would make Harry Potter want to be you, and still have it cast at a size/coloration/intensity where it doesn't look like it might be better used leveling the forest around you.
I blame the word "flashy". It can be interpreted as either the complexity or severity of a spell, or both. Thus I offer, for the sake of the conversation:
Fizzle: The magical-ness of a spell. More fizzle means a more complex and "pretty" spell with more (qualitative) effects. Boom: Self-explanatory.
Example: "I like my spells hyper-realistic with no fizzle whatsoever. I feel that it relates better to the primal nature of my Elementalist's magic." Another Example: "Give me ALL OF THE BOOM."
The point is that magic is by its nature illogical and unrealistic. That’s not to say that you can’t attempt to make it resemble real world phenomena; fire burns, ice freezes, electricity conducts, etc. But with magic you aren’t limited to what what happens with similar real world phenomena. Why can’t the ice burn or lightning freeze? Why can’t a fireball spell explode into a supernova effect? Magic by its very definition (heh) enables the impossible.
And, since what makes magic magical is its impossibility, it’s not only not illogical for it to diverge from how physics work in real life but it’s arguably more logical for it to. Or at the very least, it’s no less logical for the supernatural to diverge from natural laws. Appealing to logic and realism is not rational when it comes to magic.
Ice can burn, lightning could freeze if were coming from victim, being the thermodynamic energy blasting out. These would anyhow be less expected in a games magical environment, and make less sense to me.
Im against things like fireball exploding like a supernova because " A mage’s firebolt spell which can be cast as a “standard” attack and does little damage should probably look like small blasts of fire". Im expecting a small ball of fire to do a little damage and have a small visual.
What Im agreeing with Marzos way of logical and sensible visuals is for spells to be somewhat predictable. The mage moves in a lifting motion and a shadow of a round object spawns on you, if you dont dodge quickly you can expect a rock or a ball of something to fall on you, not a small lightning.
If someone throws a small fireball at you, you know you can take it. If its a large boulder of fire rolling towards you, you can logically expect more damage, a need for counteraction and a chance for explosion on hit.
These are the kind of things that I would feel comfortable calling logical. I would expect the mage being able to blow the stone of fire but not turn it into an black hole that swallows you or a supernova. Those wouldnt give me a "Wow!" reaction when first time being hit by, but a "wtf, that seems stupid "
Im quite sure u agree but Im open to change my mind if you dont, and would like to hear practical examples you would like to see.
The only thing I hope for is for magic users to have some "FUN" skills that are not for combat, but instead for making our very own fireworks for whatever holiday we want
As long as this is developed AFTER the release, so manpower is not being used on something pointless, rather than the main game.
Comments
My hopes are high.
As for OP's remarks...
I think the context matters. Generally, subtlety is the best. I don't think basic attacks with swords and spears should have crazy effects. At most a shiny glint effect highlighting the sheen or sharpness of the blade. Some skills with weapons should have effects like a charged up shot from an archer so you can visually identify where it came from -- if you cant see an archer hiding behind trees nearby picking you off, it would be aggravating. Unfortunately some skills require flashy effects. Like that giant transparent shield wall that rises in front of the tanky character. I personally hate this effect because it looks more like magic than a skill. If this were replaced with an effect and animation of the shield slamming the ground and the ground rippling and distorting, I'd be more content (especially because a wall with sharp edges is such an inorganic looking structure), however I feel like the very concept of that skill is hard to animate and design a subtle effect for, so that's probably going to be stuck as is.
That said, subtlety is key here, I agree. In my own perfect world, the only thing with flashy effects would be large magic. But even with something like shooting lighting... I'd rather see a distortion in my hand or at the tip of my staff followed by well designed bolts of lightning, not a torrential storm of electrons akin to the descent of Thor. A weak spell should look weaker than a stronger one, but not feel lame. Like if you have a lvl 1 lightning, it would be a one or two stream jolt of electricity. As this skill levels up, the amount of forking and turbulence in the effect can increase, but at no point would it look like I transform into Lightning Incarnate and launch a blast of pure energy that would in reality obliterate a home... all to only deal a 1/16 dip in someone's health bar.
On the other hand, think of how it would be to play a minstrel. It would be miserable without effects. Your entire gameplay experience would amount to you running around with a lute. A support character like that should actually stand out more in my opinion because they actually have large influence on group battles. As do Clerics. These should be more visible because they are responsible for the sustain and CC of a group battle.
So in my mind it should be very subtle with physical weapons and more visible the more magical you get, with support classes being the most flashy (also to make the support classes more fun). However, it should be artfully crafted. Every swing of a sword should feel consequential -- as opposed to a dramatic flurry of blurred, energetic blades to tick only a small percentage of health downward. The subtle distortion of magical energy in your hand, followed by the physical realization of a simple bolt of lightning can be perfect if the tension is crafted properly within the animation, effects, and sound effects. No magic or skill should be overly dramatic save for some sort of "ultimate" ability or some awesome group synchronized ability (like some insane spell that can't be done without 3 people in a small area to queue up for it together).
I would love to see ritual magic and rare spells....even a bit of customization would be nice. It can truly get boring casting the same spells over and over again.
Personally I like flashy effects, I've never had any problems with lag when fighting world bosses in gw2 like some of you mentioned before. But that's because I have a good computer, so I can understand why people are worried about it. I doubt they would be able to do it for launch since it takes so much time to create multiple variations of the same animation, but if they added a slider or "Low, Medium, High, Ultra" dropdown for effects, that would be super useful.
It would be cool to see different scales for the effects of similar attacks with different strengths. For example simple lighting strike would be really basic, but once you unlock a more powerful version the visuals will have a bigger scale and look cooler.
One thing that concerns me though, I'm not really liking the effects of skills they have shown. They look really cartoonish and kind of out of place. I wish they would look more realistic like in BDO.
You could say that magicians can control the energy in matter and thus make more sense.
(of an action, decision, etc.) expected or sensible under the circumstances.
/ˈmajək(ə)l/
adjective
of, relating to, or having special powers to make things happen that would usually be impossible.
We can do this all day if you want to be stupid.
I’m not interested in Ashes of Definition.
Why are u linking magical definition to me?
Im not questioning or attempting to devalue the point of view of others without reason.
I'm not questioning definition of magical animations as u are questioning "logical and realistic animations"
You should atleast attempt to justify the faults in logical animations or the positives in magical animations.
The point is that magic is by its nature illogical and unrealistic. That’s not to say that you can’t attempt to make it resemble real world phenomena; fire burns, ice freezes, electricity conducts, etc. But with magic you aren’t limited to what what happens with similar real world phenomena. Why can’t the ice burn or lightning freeze? Why can’t a fireball spell explode into a supernova effect? Magic by its very definition (heh) enables the impossible.
And, since what makes magic magical is its impossibility, it’s not only not illogical for it to diverge from how physics work in real life but it’s arguably more logical for it to. Or at the very least, it’s no less logical for the supernatural to diverge from natural laws. Appealing to logic and realism is not rational when it comes to magic.
As for the arguments for or against flashy effects - at a certain point, effects will interfere with visibility and enjoyment in a game designed around large-scale world conflict.
I think the idea here is that size does matter. We know what fire looks like, and we know what balls look like. All that's really left is determining the size and "flashiness" of the spell. If it's a massive, blazing inferno of death and destruction, but its effects are just a weak AoE, it will seem silly.
Plus, it also makes you question why a guy with a sharpened stick of metal can deal equal or greater amounts of damage. If you can be beaten by a guy with a sword and a couple fancy fighting moves, your magic probably shouldn't look like a mini-nuke. Exactly what the spell looks like is up to intrepid, but its visible severity should be about equal to its effect.
You can have spells that look absolutely gorgeous with magical animations and effects that would make Harry Potter want to be you, and still have it cast at a size/coloration/intensity where it doesn't look like it might be better used leveling the forest around you.
I blame the word "flashy". It can be interpreted as either the complexity or severity of a spell, or both. Thus I offer, for the sake of the conversation:
Fizzle: The magical-ness of a spell. More fizzle means a more complex and "pretty" spell with more (qualitative) effects.
Boom: Self-explanatory.
Example: "I like my spells hyper-realistic with no fizzle whatsoever. I feel that it relates better to the primal nature of my Elementalist's magic."
Another Example: "Give me ALL OF THE BOOM."
These would anyhow be less expected in a games magical environment, and make less sense to me.
Im against things like fireball exploding like a supernova because " A mage’s firebolt spell which can be cast as a “standard” attack and does little damage should probably look like small blasts of fire".
Im expecting a small ball of fire to do a little damage and have a small visual.
What Im agreeing with Marzos way of logical and sensible visuals is for spells to be somewhat predictable.
The mage moves in a lifting motion and a shadow of a round object spawns on you, if you dont dodge quickly you can expect a rock or a ball of something to fall on you, not a small lightning.
If someone throws a small fireball at you, you know you can take it. If its a large boulder of fire rolling towards you, you can logically expect more damage, a need for counteraction and a chance for explosion on hit.
These are the kind of things that I would feel comfortable calling logical. I would expect the mage being able to blow the stone of fire but not turn it into an black hole that swallows you or a supernova.
Those wouldnt give me a "Wow!" reaction when first time being hit by, but a "wtf, that seems stupid
"
Im quite sure u agree but Im open to change my mind if you dont, and would like to hear practical examples you would like to see.
As long as this is developed AFTER the release, so manpower is not being used on something pointless, rather than the main game.