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PVE COMBAT SYSTEM - what should AOC avoid

AoC should avoid a combat system like BDO that really annoyed me, resulting in my decision to left the game as described bellow:

Black Desert’s enemies are puppy kicking levels of easy. They’re only threatening if you’re severely underleveled/undergeared or you take them on in a massive swarm. Otherwise, most PvE content consists of bashing the same helpless mobs with the same AoE clearing skills over and over.

Comments

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2017
    You see ... AoE is not bad too have. But the key is balancing the Scale of Difficulty
    • Either program the NPCs' A.I. to be just as smart & fast as the Player - via better Tactics, allow NPC's to maintain the Pace-of-combat. no " flinching ", some healing abilities that NPCs have,  etc ... . Giving the NPCs something that could be contested with Players
    • Or slow-down the pace of combat - to equalize things. but still have those moments where " bursts-of-speed "  can happen at any moment
    So far i think they should utilize HitBoxes that begin in the Air, but not Hack-&-Slash nor AoE Spam. And these 2 image is the only way how i can convey the idea of it
    (
    The image above would intertwine with the Image below


    The forest is to represent how high-up a Player can Explore in some Areas - jsut the same as how far below a Player can venture out ( via Underground )


    The result of the 2 images could be ... " Spherical Combat-Style " as opposed to a very Linear-Combat Style - it'll instead be more versed.
    • ( " Spherical-Combat Style" of Attacks coming from more than just one spot )
    • But not Hack-&-Slash nor AoE Spammed-filled fest
  • @Eragale I love all your visual aids :)
  • @Bajjer
     I try :3
    I just only Hope Intrepid have a Broad-perception of Combat , think in-depthly about it, and come-up with something better  o:)  o:)o:)o:)
  • Braindead Mob AI =/= Combat System

    Don't mix these two terms if you don't know what they actually stand for. I agree, the mobs in BDO are boring and easy (except the new Kamasylvia expansion in which mobs are a bit harder, so combat is a bit more interesting) but the combat system is one of the best there has ever been.
  • I feel like the only way to make mobs more exciting when you have a combat system like BDO's is to make the mobs stupidly strong to make up for their utter lack of mobility compared to yours. BDO's combat only feels good in PVP and even then it still feels repetitive. The twitch style game play may require you to think fast, but it still feels like you are mashing the same buttons over and over again just like any other mmo. At least that is how it felt for me. It reminds me of playing a fighting game like Tekken or Street Fighter because you have to memorize a bunch of button combos to truely be effective. I understand how some people like it, but its just not my cup of tea.
  • 1: Make the mobs in levelling areas too easy.

    2: Include too many hard CC skills.

    3: Cap AoE skills.

  • I think they should avoid enrage mechanics for bosses. It is an arbitrary way to say your dps isn't good enough. First off, I believe It shouldn't matter how long it takes to kill a boss anyway. I think performing mechanics correctly and being able to survive the fight through your own skill as a player and a team is all that should be required to take on a boss in a dungeon.
  • Zastro said:
    I feel like the only way to make mobs more exciting when you have a combat system like BDO's is to make the mobs stupidly strong to make up for their utter lack of mobility compared to yours. BDO's combat only feels good in PVP and even then it still feels repetitive. The twitch style game play may require you to think fast, but it still feels like you are mashing the same buttons over and over again just like any other mmo. At least that is how it felt for me. It reminds me of playing a fighting game like Tekken or Street Fighter because you have to memorize a bunch of button combos to truely be effective. I understand how some people like it, but its just not my cup of tea.
    totally agree Zastro.... its like play devil may cry or baioneta and I really dislike this kind of combat... See, very boring hitting buttons forever and see mobs dying... wow is much better ins subject, cause even in quest I have to crowd control them to avoid die, break dangerous mobs spells or interrupted mob healing himself... so its very nice cause you have to think and fight properly to avoid die, black desert you don't need to anything except hit buttons brainlessly and that why I left the game cause it was just annoyingly 
  • I agree with avoiding mass swarms of enemies as a standard (a special occasion could be fun) as it just makes the whole combat visually confused and cluttered. I want to buy into that the thing I'm fighting is a threat, and not an incompetent nuisance that I can hand wave away.
    That said don't make the world so dense with mobs that traversing it is an exercise in frustration.

    I also hope we don't have too many different difficulty modes as it cheapens the whole experience. If we're fighting your bad ass boss character he better feel like a bad ass, not oh yea I beat him on the first 3 difficulties 5 times, but man on the 6th time on the 4th difficulty he was kinda cool, too bad I was board by him by then.
  • I really do not want to see every encounter just become an aoe grind fest, round them up and aoe to dust, so boring.
    Mobs and encounters being too easy, I want to face some sort of challenge even when I level, would be great to come across mobs that may require another player or 2 to take down.
    Combat effects that don't look over the top, you get too many people in one place firing off abilities and things can get lost in all of the effects.

  • Wonder why no one has ever introduced mobs that gain new abilities when gathered?

    Example if you aggro one it has basic attacks and defense.

    If two are aggro'ed on you they gain a power attack

    If you have 4 aggroed on you they add maybe a CC that could really make the numbers rougher.

    If you get 8 on you they pick up a special attack that can one shot you if it hits lol.

    Something along those lines.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2017
    My big problem with leveling is that its literally just grinding. If I can program a dumb bot to do my actions and level then it loses the appeal.  The risk of death when leveling in most MMO games is nearly nonexistant.  Why should I play for 6 hours if the gameplay is so stale that I could program a brainless bot to do it for me and get the same reward? 
    Everquest tried to balance this by making mobs worth exp always be at a level where they could easily kill you if you played wrong.  As much as I loved the accessibility of WoW/Rifts/GW2/etc., the only real challenges were dungeons. Archeage and EVE artificially create this challenge via other players which is a good stop gap measure, but when I want to just PvE the E should be a challenge.  Whether they do this via monster spawn nodes leveling, random elite mobs, better adds pathing through the area, or monster AI calling in their swarm or some other method I am very hopeful for actually challenging gameplay. 
    My personal hope is that there is a true procedural mob spawn.  Kill all the deer?  Deer spawn stops, undead start harvesting the souls released on the battlefield, kill all the undead?  Liches start being called forth, keeps escalating until it's abandoned, then monster node starts downgrading over time until nature comes back to normal or a high level cleric comes in for an epic battle to cleanse the area.
    edited grammar
  • agreed, except last part, it would be complicated cause if proceed this way when a player enters a new area he would to wait a lot until his mobs respawn again in the cycle montioned
  • Wonder why no one has ever introduced mobs that gain new abilities when gathered?

    Example if you aggro one it has basic attacks and defense.

    If two are aggro'ed on you they gain a power attack

    If you have 4 aggroed on you they add maybe a CC that could really make the numbers rougher.

    If you get 8 on you they pick up a special attack that can one shot you if it hits lol.

    Something along those lines.

    Because then "single target focused" classes (that kill mobs 1 by 1 but fast, like ie. rogue) would have advantage over "AoE focused" classes (that have less single target dps, but work good with AoEs).

    And if you just balance all classes to have equal single target and AoE then you are basically just ruining the game since you lose class uniqueness by a fair amount.
  • Hello all, ill probably get flamed for this.  But the best MMORPG combat system to date is "Blade and Souls", it is by far the most challenging and the most rewarding in high skill pvp combat.  Everything needs to be skill shot based, no tab targeting, no auto lock ons.  and the Coup De Grace, the counter response system.    Just my 2 cents
  • They really need to avoid capping aoe attacks.  It should hit every non-friendly in the aoe no matter the number.  This really punishes disorganized zerging.
  • agreed, except last part, it would be complicated cause if proceed this way when a player enters a new area he would to wait a lot until his mobs respawn again in the cycle montioned
    Depends on how they do it.  If they use the node system for enemies like it is setup for cities then when one node switches others nearby will downgrade. causing there to always be low level nodes nearby.  You may have to cycle where you are hunting but you should always be able to find something close to your level.
  • " ... Wonder why no one has ever introduced mobs that gain new abilities when gathered? ... "
    i think SWTOR did that on some Mobs, but the Companion makes everything easy(ish)

  • Aghar said:
    They really need to avoid capping aoe attacks.  It should hit every non-friendly in the aoe no matter the number.  This really punishes disorganized zerging.
    The problem with letting AoE's hit everything is that mobs become super easy to grind when AoE's can burn multiple foes down at once. ESO had AoE caps and it was still a trivial thing to slay 20 or more enemies in a few seconds with a few AoE skills.

    Personally, I'd rather see AoE skills be rare and more useful for position management than outright killing enemies and softening targets, more utility than anything. Let the single target skills be our bread and butter and adjust mob packs accordingly to keep the combat fun and timely.
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