I don't want to see a gazillion action buttons and toolbars

ArchivedUser

SWtOR has way too many toolbars. So did some other MMORPGS I played in the past.*

IMO 16 keys should cover you in combat.
This means you can map your entire combat repertoire to your numpad, which is awesome.

Out of combat includes passive powerups, travel abilities, crafting etc that you use before and after fights but not during. That number should be around 12 (F1 to F12).

I doubt my wish will be granted, but please PLEASE at least limit the number of skill (potions, etc) activations to AT MOST 3 toolbars x 12 = 36 buttons maximum.

That leaves us with F1 to F12, and Shift and CTRL.
[Even then, 24 should be more than adequate for combat activations only.]

Honestly I don't see how any game can achieve good gameplay that requires more than that, but several games have done it. And it's not like 36 activations is even "streamlined"...it's still a lot.

* I think a lot of the newish games (MMO or otherwise) that don't have a lot of toolbars simply want to support gamepads and/or console players, it wasn't a gameplay decision, per se.

ArchivedUser

At the moment I think it is around 8 skills you can have slotted at any one time though this is not set in stone and may change. As for things like potions and the like not sure there has been much information on how such items will work in combat.

ArchivedUser

They did say the UI will be very customizable.

ArchivedUser

I usually prefer a lot of spells. Fluff spells included.

ArchivedUser

Well, they did say something about the game not having 30 skills in there. The plan is to have less, but an exact number is still unknown.

ArchivedUser

Varkun said:

At the moment I think it is around 8 skills you can have slotted at any one time though this is not set in stone and may change. As for things like potions and the like not sure there has been much information on how such items will work in combat.

MissionCreep said:

SWtOR has way too many toolbars. So did some other MMORPGS I played in the past.*

IMO 16 keys should cover you in combat.
This means you can map your entire combat repertoire to your numpad, which is awesome.

Out of combat includes passive powerups, travel abilities, crafting etc that you use before and after fights but not during. That number should be around 12 (F1 to F12).

I doubt my wish will be granted, but please PLEASE at least limit the number of skill (potions, etc) activations to AT MOST 3 toolbars x 12 = 36 buttons maximum.

That leaves us with F1 to F12, and Shift and CTRL.
[Even then, 24 should be more than adequate for combat activations only.]

Honestly I don't see how any game can achieve good gameplay that requires more than that, but several games have done it. And it's not like 36 activations is even "streamlined"...it's still a lot.

* I think a lot of the newish games (MMO or otherwise) that don't have a lot of toolbars simply want to support gamepads and/or console players, it wasn't a gameplay decision, per se.

The PAX build had 8 spells. So I would guess once the game releases its around the same amount in your action bar!

ArchivedUser

A skill bar has 10 slots. 2 might be for potions and the rest for skills.

We will certainly have more than 8 active skills at release, but only 8 of them will fit on your skillbar.

Personally, I only use up to 4-6 skills, reaching to the 8, 9 and 0 skills in the heat of combat is a nightmare.

We might also get secondary skillbars for F1 - F12 or to set our keys manually.

ArchivedUser

what person with a sane mind would use the default keybinds 8,9 and 0 instead of qerfcxy<tgv if he intends to play the game for more than one hour????

ArchivedUser

everyone talks about using 1-10 and the f keys. why not use Q.E.R.F.V.C.X.Z. instead of 1-10. (i remap to this for every game. default keys can always be included easily)

ArchivedUser

Well playing on keyboards is your own problem. 

I have everything bound to mouse, and everything is reachable to me without ever lifting my hands.

Besides classic 3 mouse buttons, I have 4 extra buttons on left side of mouse, 1 extra button on right top side of mouse and 2 buttons just below mouse wheel. That's 10 usable (and well placed) mouse buttons.

So:
- 10 mouse buttons
- CTRL + 10 mouse buttons
- SHIFT + 10 mouse buttons
- CTRL + SHIFT + 10 mouse buttons

...gives me 40 available "clicks" while just holding my left hand on movement and CTRL / SHIFT, and right hand on mouse.

Once you get used to this, you never look back to keyboard.

ArchivedUser

Personaly i choose the most comfortable mouse buttons aswell as the keyboard buttons next to wasd.
In total thats up to 19 keyboard and 6 extra mousebuttons +25&shift +25&ctrl -> 75 easy to reach buttons..
Never played a game that required me to bind all of them at the same time however
So no need for shift&ctrl or alt combinations (usualy theres no need for ctrl aswell).

I dont need to move any finger more than 2cm (~2cm - left index finger; less than 1cm - all others) with these buttons so noone could tell me i need to do intense finger acrobatics that any other person without disabilities couldn't learn within 3 minutes.

So imo flames about too many skills because it would be too difficult to reach buttons are just ridiculous.

ArchivedUser

Gothix said:

Well playing on keyboards is your own problem. 

I have everything bound to mouse, and everything is reachable to me without ever lifting my hands.

Besides classic 3 mouse buttons, I have 4 extra buttons on left side of mouse, 1 extra button on right top side of mouse and 2 buttons just below mouse wheel. That's 10 usable (and well placed) mouse buttons.

So:
- 10 mouse buttons
- CTRL + 10 mouse buttons
- SHIFT + 10 mouse buttons
- CTRL + SHIFT + 10 mouse buttons

...gives me 40 available "clicks" while just holding my left hand on movement and CTRL / SHIFT, and right hand on mouse.

Once you get used to this, you never look back to keyboard.

ah yes, having a good mouse with keys helpsloads. i did not include my mouse. everyones is dif. and the general pop doesnt have a fancy one.

ArchivedUser

Small UI is best for me too

ArchivedUser

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ArchivedUser

I for one hope there is a good variety of spells but they may have a reduced amount of total spells active on your bar if they do certain spell chains. For example, if they choose to have one spell activate another spell it may show up on the bar where the first spell just was. It will be interesting to see, I don't mind having too many spells as long as there is a BIG list of spells to choose from so you can go into situations with changed up dynamics. I have played WoW since vanilla so I am used to having a lot of spells and bars.

ArchivedUser

Ashes of Creation is a high fantasy MMORPG. Magic should not be condensed with limited abilities - you could even have 15 - 20+ Spells on Water-Magic Alone ... Let alone the others


 ( via Fire, Water, Wind, Earth, Dark and Light Spells )


The way I see it .... I imagine the Abilities like Pokemon + Final Fantasy ( not the MMO ... The FF Genre as a whole )

Why limit your rotations/options to just 1 ? That'll get stale ... Fast

 Rotations should not be based on your Skill Tree. Rather, the freedom of knowing you can assemble your own Rotations base on the Abilities that you learned.


Im hoping that a lot of abilities can be found ... Including other ways.

Because honestly I wouldn't want my abilities coming from just one NPC the same NPC. And not wanting for Stagnant NPCs either


In Short, what I'm trying to say is that ... Don't limit what this MMO can become by comparing it with the trash that's currently in the market. The Devs are asking the Community our opinions about every aspect of this MMO BEFORE Pre-Alpha, Alpha and Beta. If you want this MMO to be better & different, then you got to think outside-the-box ... Otherwise it's going to be another Clone 

ArchivedUser

Minimal UI and a lot of button bars are different in my opinion, but it sounds like there won't be many action skills, if you add racial skills, food/potions, and any item effect's, it's really not that many buttons, no matter the keyboard.

I see way to many people who click to play and can't get familiar with keyboard layout or re-binding keys away from 1-10. This might be a limitation of knowledge of the options by the user, but every time I start a new game I bind keys I'm used to using in other games to match so I don't have to re-learn keys all the time. 

ArchivedUser

I'm a big fan of having lots of stuff to choose from, but only a small amount of slots to fill. I think of it like playing a Mage in D&D. You had to choose which spells to memorize, and that became your arsenal for the encounter.

So, if you plan ahead well enough, you can walk in with exactly what you expect to need. Not to mention, I'm getting older... trying to play keyboard ninja with 40 available keys to cycle through just isn't as easy as it used to be.

ArchivedUser

Rabbit_Games said:

I'm a big fan of having lots of stuff to choose from, but only a small amount of slots to fill. I think of it like playing a Mage in D&D. You had to choose which spells to memorize, and that became your arsenal for the encounter.

So, if you plan ahead well enough, you can walk in with exactly what you expect to need. Not to mention, I'm getting older... trying to play keyboard ninja with 40 available keys to cycle through just isn't as easy as it used to be.

LOL ah the aging gamer. I agree with you 100%. I want lots of options with a handful of active skills to use at any given time. I also don't want to see quick swap for load outs either. If you want to change a spell you have in your hotbar, it will take time.

ArchivedUser

Aging gamer here as well, But i want all my options at all times. So if i only use 5 spells for most combat i put them close to the movement buttons. Other spells go farther away. I prefer not to have to open a new windows to find my craft skills or my gathering skills or even my long term buffs. If you prefer to have fewer skills availabe at all times then dont place them on your bar. But please dont restrict my ability to do so. You can play anyway you want with all options available but i cannot play any way i want if you restrict the options available.

ArchivedUser

I use anywhere between 48-60 keybinds on most of my characters in ffxiv about the same in wow. Not all of them are action skills of course but i hate to open menus for gear sets, mounts,  minions etc

ArchivedUser

don't forget there is a ranged weapon slot and melee weapon slot. i would hope the bars are different for each slot

ArchivedUser

I like options and fully customizable UI. But I get what OP is saying. I like how FFXIV allows players to resize everything, add/remove hotbars, and change ordering across the board. It's also convenient for controller users. I hope AoC gives us options.

ArchivedUser

It's always great to have options. \o/

ArchivedUser

Mystile said:

I like options and fully customizable UI. But I get what OP is saying. I like how FFXIV allows players to resize everything, add/remove hotbars, and change ordering across the board. It's also convenient for controller users. I hope AoC gives us options.

fully agree. i love it when games have built in customization for the UI. maybe i want a high res but dont want tiny icons. to each their own. *crosses fingers*

ArchivedUser

I think we need at least twice as many abilities as we have now.  Looks like we have about 8.  Would like to see 20-25 min.

ArchivedUser

Personally I like options so I would like for the system to be very customizable.  I am another aging gamer so for me I think fewer skills (fewer is a relative term here) is better.  I've seen many games where there are way too many skills that are too similar.  They do pretty much the same thing with a slightly different particle effect.  I would rather have 12 different skills than 40 that are just variations on a theme and are interchangeable.

For me I think the ideal would be 2 hot bars of 12 slots.  The top one is for your combat skills and combat skills can only go on the top bar so you have to choose which abilities you want to equip.  If you have 12 slots then I think 20 or so total combat abilities would be about right.  The bottom one is for ease of life type of skills (potions, food, mount summoning, fluff spells, etc.).  This is just my ideal.  Yours will differ and I'm sure it probably does.

ArchivedUser

I'd prefer a lack of UI.

ArchivedUser

I really liked how Guild Wars 2 handled it - where you do get a bunch of abilities to choose from but you're limited to one of each type on your actual toolbar. It lets players be creative with builds and allows for variety.

ArchivedUser

NoeSparks said:

everyone talks about using 1-10 and the f keys. why not use Q.E.R.F.V.C.X.Z. instead of 1-10. (i remap to this for every game. default keys can always be included easily)

I usually bind my primary skills to,    ~,1-5, R,T,F,G,Z,X,C,V  or shift and and number of those for extras

ArchivedUser

There are also active abilities that are essentially useless for combat. Things like the Warlock's ritual of doom. Skills like that give a lot of flavour to a class. They are considered actives, but you aren't required to bind them.
If you limit the amount of active skills. I fear there's going to be a lot of class homogenisation. So again, the more skills the better.

Also, buffs are considered active skills, if you have to cast them. That could already take up 2~3 active skills, again, not skills you'll have to bind persay.
Portal spells would be another (I know there won't be portals in this game, just an example)

Bottom line, there are plenty of skills you won't have to keybind, and clicking on them will be just fine.

So again, I -do- want a gazillion skills/spells