In-game Community

ArchivedUser

I wanted to gather everyone's thoughts on the kind of community they expect to see in game? I feel that, for now, we are all harmonious and are thinking about others whenever we have an idea or pose a question, but... will this carry over into the game? If not, it will be detrimental to the game, as it relies on the kindness and patience of players when it comes to forming guilds and parties.

I mean, won't people be people? We will stick to our own groups and try to limit much of what we do in them. We will be quick to establish what the "requirements" are for being a viable player and slowly become less friendly. I'm just being realistic here.

How long will it take for the new MMO feel that encourages and facilitates camaderie to turn into the eventual solo playstyle? Is there something that specfically addresses this and will solve it?

I know this topic has been discussed many times before, but I want to again bring it up so that we remember that throughout all of our post and discussions on this forurm, that we understand that the most important part of an MMO game is the massive multiplayer aspect. Always think about the community and what things can negatively or positively affect it.

ArchivedUser

How long it takes will depend on how Intrepid implement the systems that are supposed to encourage the communtiy to work together. If it is easier to go solo or only stick to your one group of friends then that is what most people will do. But, if the community needs to work together often or branching out and findkng new acquaintances is encouraged, then I don't see mass solo play happening very soon.

ArchivedUser

I would say when the game goes public "beta 1" the player base will change  for better or worse

ArchivedUser

I understand what you are saying but I believe Ashes will be a game unlike many others.  This community is an example of the good people who will occupy Vera.

Ashes is a community based game.  Everything depends on how well people work together.  This game is multi faceted and also much like dominoes, knock one down they all fall down.  Grow strong with the help of many.

Cooperation high and low will be needed to build the world. New people will have a place to fill.   Are people going to discourage them from helping to defend or reinforce their towns? Will guilds want to recruit new people to learn and help to guard gatherers or caravans?   Smart guilds will take new people under their wings and help guide them.  Allies are made through friendly gestures not by ignoring others.

ArchivedUser

CylverRayne said:

I understand what you are saying but I believe Ashes will be a game unlike many others.  This community is an example of the good people who will occupy Vera.

Ashes is a community based game.  Everything depends on how well people work together.  This game is multi faceted and also much like dominoes, knock one down they all fall down.  Grow strong with the help of many.

Cooperation high and low will be needed to build the world. New people will have a place to fill.   Are people going to discourage them from helping to defend or reinforce their towns? Will guilds want to recruit new people to learn and help to guard gatherers or caravans?   Smart guilds will take new people under their wings and help guide them.  Allies are made through friendly gestures not by ignoring others.

Yes. This is be the the first few months of the games' release. Can you imagine the amount of cooperation -- the desperation that players will have in trying to recruit new players as soon as they see them... what a great welcome into the world of Verra. However, after those months, I wonder if it will remain this way.

ArchivedUser

We can expect the same as the current discord chat xD

ArchivedUser

Fleelix said:

We can expect the same as the current discord chat xD

it been quite fun on the discord apart from the horrible singing 

ArchivedUser

Once gear, and leaderboards, and anything that people can use to make people the elite, will be when the peace will break. It happens in all MMO's

ArchivedUser

I like the current vocal community. However, it is just a few of us currently.

Once the game goes live, a bunch of people will be attracted to it. The masses are not always nice, so if you want a friendly environment I'd recommend a smaller group like a guild.

ArchivedUser

Chudyie said:

I wanted to gather everyone's thoughts on the kind of community they expect to see in game? I feel that, for now, we are all harmonious and are thinking about others whenever we have an idea or pose a question, but... will this carry over into the game? If not, it will be detrimental to the game, as it relies on the kindness and patience of players when it comes to forming guilds and parties.

I mean, won't people be people? We will stick to our own groups and try to limit much of what we do in them. We will be quick to establish what the "requirements" are for being a viable player and slowly become less friendly. I'm just being realistic here.

How long will it take for the new MMO feel that encourages and facilitates camaderie to turn into the eventual solo playstyle? Is there something that specfically addresses this and will solve it?

I know this topic has been discussed many times before, but I want to again bring it up so that we remember that throughout all of our post and discussions on this forurm, that we understand that the most important part of an MMO game is the massive multiplayer aspect. Always think about the community and what things can negatively or positively affect it.

The community we have now, will obviously change significantly on release. Some people might remain in contact, but in most cases its likely communities become more insular within peoples chosen servers, and within those servers micro-communities around nodes/guilds/social organisations will form. 

Sure in theory players will still be part of an overall community, but more so likely that they will interact with communities they are more direct incontact with opposed to external ones.

ArchivedUser

DeathsProxy said:

The community we have now, will obviously change significantly on release. Some people might remain in contact, but in most cases its likely communities become more insular within peoples chosen servers, and within those servers micro-communities around nodes/guilds/social organisations will form. 

Sure in theory players will still be part of an overall community, but more so likely that they will interact with communities they are more direct incontact with opposed to external ones.

Have to agree with this, the community we have now will pretty much vanish come release. Many of us are from different parts of the world and will head off to servers situated in US, EU, or OCE then become further divided on the servers within each region. So unless people from this community make a conscious choice to play together this community will change beyond recognition.

As for the communities within each server I would expect just more of the same when it comes to the people you will find there, you will have your trolls, your PKers, your solo players, the usual grief and turmoil every game has. But you will also have those who want to form strong guilds and groups, reach out and help new players. sure there will be a period of time where that new game feel may suppress some of the more extreme behaviours but when they get bored people will slip back into old mmo habits.

My hope is that with AOC being non faction based there may be a chance that larger alliances may form and hopefully people will develop a sense of belonging within the node they are a citizen of. There might not be a desire to go out into your own home node and cause murder and mayhem as this would only cause the node you are a part of to develop more slowly and thus any bonuses you might get from a higher tier node. The node next door however is a different story.

For the most part people would want to see their home node progress, to become more powerful and thus people will have a sense of place within the world and belonging to something that is more than just a group of friends or a guild. Just have to wait and see if this is what comes from the node system a sense of community where people will come to the aid of strangers, a stranger yes but a citizen of the same node with similar goals might just foster a greater sense of community.

ArchivedUser

Chudyie said:

I mean, won't people be people? 

They will. They so will.

It's not like humans are suddenly gonna change their originality. Players are the sameplayers, and there will no restriction against anyone. So the people you dislike or like in other games, can be here as well. There will be good times and bad times, peace and toxicity, war and love. And it all depends on Intrepid. I'm not going to be shocked if Rogues being exteremely OP and Hunters being exteremely weak, then seeing tons of threads and discussion even war regarding this unfair class balancing. And people suddenly gets "real", in Community Summit thread they were like ready  to tear each other apart just for someone used the word "toxic". So they have to create a platform where doesn't let their players to get toxic(I'm slippin' under) or angry. I don't mean dictatorship, but making it so flawless or close to flawless that the players will keep their friendly, easy-going, rivaling, competitive, humorous, kind sides in-game.
Of course I'd like active GMs checking players out, being fair and precise, checking such arguements which with vulgar words and taking care of it by satisfying both sides(not just one). Also not responding to feedbacks with proper responses or not responding at all creates more problem around players. Studio should engage and make a therapy session with people like.

IS: "Mages, what's your problem?"
Mage Players: "Lately, we feel like our Lightning Chain is being nerfed a lot and I think it's affecting my environmental aura"
IS: "I see, does it associate with your child quests."
Mage Players: "No but I think it's the Warriors are too OP, it's controlling our lives in game"
Warriors: "Oh girl, you didn't. Don't even get me started about the previous patch where you were raining meteors on everyone."
Mage Players: "Oh really? 'Cause before that Warriors could slice faster"
Warriors: "And before that, you"
IS: "Let's calm down, and think over this again, first of all, mages what's your problem"

Also popping the air of some inflated top geared, top player, top of the icecream players time to time will help the newcomers. (Not adding DPS Meter is not the solution #bringiton #yeahIjustbroughtthisagain #whatchagonnadoplayeah)

ArchivedUser

It sounds like everyone is under the impression the online, mostly friendly, community we have now will transition into a more realistic every day world community.
-You don't talk to most people you see daily
-You communicate mostly with coworkers, friends, family
-There always be idiots about, that's always been true
-Occasionally someone will shock and amaze you in both good and bad ways
-Some people like to watch the world burn and laugh at others, you know, the super edgy cool ones

I would just be happy if RL issues stayed out of the community...

Also, I notice a lot of talk about the community or guilds "helping" new players. I understand the compassion for the new player struggle and the desire to see someone prosper a little bit easier than you, but doesn't this give new players an unfair advantage? [I mean in game, not for new members on the forums]

Those of you that will start day 1 or sooner, who is going to help you?
Just because you are new to a game doesn't mean you need advice from someone that has already been playing. Is there a large group of players that no longer want to make effort and try to be better on their own, risking failure and enjoying success that much more?

I get it, I do, I would be more than willing to answer some basic questions. However, a lot of players try to donate gear, wealth, build-tips, etc. and I don't see the purpose in that.

ArchivedUser

Those that have headstart built into their packages will have already been playing a version of the game for months, so that knowledge can and should be passed on to new players. The stronger the base and community feeling, the more subs retained, the more resources for further and better content and so on. If people take a chance, buy a month sub, get out of the starter area and are ganked by some idiot who (if it were possible) takes their stuff, teabags their corpse, yells "GitGud Noob" and rides off, and it happens over and over to "new" players, then the opposite effect will occur.

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

Those that have headstart built into their packages will have already been playing a version of the game for months, so that knowledge can and should be passed on to new players. The stronger the base and community feeling, the more subs retained, the more resources for further and better content and so on. If people take a chance, buy a month sub, get out of the starter area and are ganked by some idiot who (if it were possible) takes their stuff, teabags their corpse, yells "GitGud Noob" and rides off, and it happens over and over to "new" players, then the opposite effect will occur.

We have strong candidates for something like that already.

ArchivedUser

But wouldn't that happen even with sharing information?
As for new players needing/wanting additional knowledge, there will be streamers for that. I am just for making the effort to experience and learn on your own, some people require tutoring and that's okay.

ArchivedUser

I'm hoping that there will be so much to do and learn that people won't be wasting their time pvping. I'm going to test out all the classes (if I can) in pvp with my guild, not wasting my time roaming for players. Mostly, I'll be learning the mechanics of the game and looking for bugs/exploits.

ArchivedUser

I don't expect much out of the community, and I'm not really bothered by that. The most fun I ever had in a MMO was where the community took on a Game of Thrones level cut throat mentality. There will undoubtedly be certain guilds/segments of the population who want to help each other out, and then there will be everyone else. Villains who actively try to disrupt the community and kind of "grey" players/guilds who will fall somewhere in between. That's just the natural progression of MMO's. Everyone is kind of together as we wait for the game to be released discussing ideas  and being mostly cordial. At launch though the competitive juices get going , and it is especially true (in my experience) that games with an open PvP element tend to have far less hand holding once the battles start.

ArchivedUser

Gothix said:

UnknownSystemError said:

If people take a chance, buy a month sub, get out of the starter area and are ganked by some idiot who (if it were possible) takes their stuff

It's interesting how you still continue to call people idiots. And your example of idiots always feature solely PvP.

Calling any player an idiot (a RL insult) (and even more so if you call larger player group idiots (PvP group)), regardless of their play style, is very low of you, because you are that player who is continually being toxic with use of your vocabulary.

You are just very lucky to get away with it for so long (no sanctions). But slowly even the non PvP-ers here will slowly start to distance themselves from you. Mark my words.

Yeesh... I think Gothix left the oven on.... because I just read a major B U R N.

I kid. 
I think U.S.E is just trying to say that its... annoying to try to avoid the players that are so inclined to PVP. He didn't mean idiots as in they're stupid for playing that way, but more like they're unable to see that the way they want to play can be harmful to others that want to play differently.

For example, wouldn't you be tired of having to think about how you're going to avoid getting PKd if you go to a certain area? Wouldn't you wish that the PVPers would do their thing, but do it with the understanding that when they decide to go on a rampage and sweep over the world with their wrath, they end up making the game a little bit more tasking to play? And no one should ever have to be forced to think that way, to think "I wonder if I'd be safe if I went to this area instead of going to this area which I desire to."

ArchivedUser

Chudyie said:
 

I think U.S.E is just trying to say that its... annoying to try to avoid the players that are so inclined to PVP. He didn't mean idiots as in they're stupid for playing that way, but more like they're unable to see that the way they want to play can be harmful to others that want to play differently.

Not only to other playstyles, but to the entire longevity of the game. This is why the starter areas will be non-pvp zones, and why a lot of survival games that include open PvP never really take off.

People are not given the chance to grow into the game but are summarily killed and looted again and again by much more experienced players. They don't get a chance to enjoy the game because their experience of it is narrowed to failure due to the actions of a handful of gimps.

These people aren't PvPers, they are trolls that enjoy detrimentally affecting someone else's experience. They just use PvP as their method of trolling, because it is easy and it is available. I love PvP, but I despise these players.

I have personally left more than one survival game (the genre I have been trying out recently) due to this very behaviour. Some may call me a carebear, but if I don't actually have a chance to experience how good the game could be, because I started 2 months after everyone else, then the game itself suffers due to less people playing.

To the larger point - even though the community will fracture when the game releases, and there will be natural competition between guilds and nodes, I really hope that the essence of the community remains strong. Just because there is competition doesn't mean those competitors can't enjoy striving against each other and laud the achievements of their opponents. 

I think it is more about how we play the game. 

ArchivedUser

Chudyie said:

For example, wouldn't you be tired of having to think about how you're going to avoid getting PKd if you go to a certain area? Wouldn't you wish that the PVPers would do their thing, but do it with the understanding that when they decide to go on a rampage and sweep over the world with their wrath, they end up making the game a little bit more tasking to play? And no one should ever have to be forced to think that way, to think "I wonder if I'd be safe if I went to this area instead of going to this area which I desire to."

I agree with most of this, except the last sentence. I know you were implying due to PvP, but I do hope there are areas where players have to consider the safety of their character... just not because of PKer's.

I am still not sure what the point is in killing another player that won't fight back. Nobody will ever convince me there is a good point without also convincing me that "bullying" is a good thing. I am equating killing a players avatar when they choose to not fight back with bullying, I am not calling all PvPer's bullies.

IMO those PvPer's that will engage new players with an attack and then walk away when they are not attacked back will be the silver lining to the open PvP. Maybe even a "get better noob and meet me here."

I also agree with @Bajjer, I would not continue to pay to play a game if I was ganked for no reason every half-hour or hour.

ArchivedUser

IMO you both occasionally make good points and at other times I literally do not understand you reasoning. I have yet to see a conversation in the forums that trails onto Corruption or DPS meters that doesn't end in peeps being defamatory or rude.

I like the current system and would like a penalty stiff enough to highly discourage ganking, because ganking is only fun for half the participants and a nightmare for the other half.

I am more likely to agree with USE on more topics than Gothix.

On the other side Gothix has made some good suggestions for the "okay, do this if no DPS meter" side and does make efforts to compromise even knowing protest will begin immediately. Although I would like no way to compare avatar to another, that is kind of unreasonable. I don't think getting rid of the chat is proper.

I think I have called some people names throughout the threads to, inadvertently. When I am called out for it I feel bad because that is not the community I want or behavior I want to encourage.

ArchivedUser

I am looking forward to the PKers that gank low level players, it's fun to hear those PKers scream and you spawn camp them for what they did

Another fun past-time is trolling your friends though, I be like "Yo, dude check this place out." *buddy walks unsuspectingly towards a cliff* *I get my skill ready to shove him off* . . . 

We all know the rest of the story

ArchivedUser

Azathoth said:

Chudyie said:

For example, wouldn't you be tired of having to think about how you're going to avoid getting PKd if you go to a certain area? Wouldn't you wish that the PVPers would do their thing, but do it with the understanding that when they decide to go on a rampage and sweep over the world with their wrath, they end up making the game a little bit more tasking to play? And no one should ever have to be forced to think that way, to think "I wonder if I'd be safe if I went to this area instead of going to this area which I desire to."

I agree with most of this, except the last sentence. I know you were implying due to PvP, but I do hope there are areas where players have to consider the safety of their character... just not because of PKer's.
I am still not sure what the point is in killing another player that won't fight back. Nobody will ever convince me there is a good point without also convincing me that "bullying" is a good thing. I am equating killing a players avatar when they choose to not fight back with bullying, I am not calling all PvPer's bullies.
IMO those PvPer's that will engage new players with an attack and then walk away when they are not attacked back will be the silver lining to the open PvP. Maybe even a "get better noob and meet me here."
I also agree with @Bajjer, I would not continue to pay to play a game if I was ganked for no reason every half-hour or hour.

The point of killing another player who won't fight back is 2 fold.

1 - You can. May not be a popular choice, but I enjoy open world games because it offers player choice. If I want to be a villain who goes around ganking people then I can. Those people then have the ability to come after me and hunt me down. 

2 - Tactics. If there are various factions then you may find it a good use of time to strike down your enemies before they can obtain the resources needed to fight back. Even if the opponents are neutral then you may decide it's worth making enemy of them to obtain some precious resources they may have gathered and/or to take over a farming spot.


A truly open PvP environment operates without restrictions placed by the game's mechanics. The deterrent for ganking, pking, whatever should be the community itself rising up.

ArchivedUser

Affy said:

The deterrent for ganking, pking, whatever should be the community itself rising up.

That's just not human nature, the game would be dead even before it comes out.

ArchivedUser

Elder said:

Affy said:

The deterrent for ganking, pking, whatever should be the community itself rising up.

That's just not human nature, the game would be dead even before it comes out.

It's entirely dependent on the game and the community itself. If the game encourages that kind of engagement then it will find success (as there are examples of previously successful MMO's with these mechanics). If you have a player house/guild hall and you roll some group of low level players attached to another guild. What's going to happen?

ArchivedUser

Affy said:

It's entirely dependent on the game and the community itself.

The community will form around the systems of the game, we won't get lucky and just have a group of really nice people. If murder is not punished the game becomes attractive to people looking for a gankbox (to murder).

“Gankboxes are sandboxes that place such an emphasis on unrestricted free-for-all PvP that ganking comes to dominate the entire game, to the detriment of the rest of the world design.”

ArchivedUser

That's a very biased narrative. There are examples of MMO's with FFA pvp (or at least very close to it) that have sustained themselves for years, and they aren't simple "gankboxes". Ganking occurs, but there is also much more fruitful PvP that occurs as well. 

If a player/guild has a destructible city and they go around ganking people then they are going to get punished. Human nature is fight or flight. Some will fly, but many others will fight back.

ArchivedUser

I agree with @Elder community will form around the tools (systems of the game). People by nature look out for themselves and are greedy compared to anything else in the animal kingdom. If murder wasn't punished people would be griefing players over and over again causing people to not be able to play the game, which in turn will make players stop playing the game.  

But the social norms and what is acceptable and unacceptable are created by the environment of the players. Its basic psychology. The heard mentality mainly being what I am drawing on. What the heard often does is what is accepted meaning if the community is toxic (aka LOL) then it becomes socially acceptable to be somewhat toxic. The only way a community will remain not toxic is having little to no tolerance for it. 

ArchivedUser

Affy said:

That's a very biased narrative. There are examples of MMO's with FFA pvp (or at least very close to it) that have sustained themselves for years, and they aren't simple "gankboxes". Ganking occurs, but there is also much more fruitful PvP that occurs as well. 

biased narrative?  That's just ridiculous, I'm not being biased. 
It would help your case if you named some of these examples.
 

ArchivedUser

gundel said:

I agree with @Elder community will form around the tools (systems of the game). People by nature look out for themselves and are greedy compared to anything else in the animal kingdom. If murder wasn't punished people would be griefing players over and over again causing people to not be able to play the game, which in turn will make players stop playing the game.  

But the social norms and what is acceptable and unacceptable are created by the environment of the players. Its basic psychology. The heard mentality mainly being what I am drawing on. What the heard often does is what is accepted meaning if the community is toxic (aka LOL) then it becomes socially acceptable to be somewhat toxic. The only way a community will remain not toxic is having little to no tolerance for it. 

I agree with the heard mentality part. Successful FFA PvP games have had game mechanics which A - don't offer overly punitive PK mechanics, B - Have a community that accepts the FFA nature as a risk in going out into the game world. You can't have a free for all if the community isn't willing to stand up for themselves, but when those players are willing to fight back then that is what the community becomes. It isn't even the gankfest that some like accuse those games of being, as long as players have the tools at their disposal to deliver consequences.