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Prisoners of War
ArchivedUser
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During sieges, after killing an enemy combatant, It would be possible (instead continuing to fight) to take your time and drag combatants corpse to your camp prison system.
You would only have limited amount of time to do that before enemy combatant is allowed to respawn. You could also be seen dragging the corpse and killed on your way, in which case imprisonment would fail.
If successfully imprisoned, players would respawn in prison and not be able to rejoin siege unless their friends organize a rescue attempt, and are successful in doing so. This would of course take their time away from defending the city (or attacking in case of opposing side).
Both sides in siege would have ability to attempt to capture prisoners (with risks), and to mount rescues to release their friends from such prisons.
Once siege ends, any existing (unsaved) prisoners would be released as tensions are over.
You would only have limited amount of time to do that before enemy combatant is allowed to respawn. You could also be seen dragging the corpse and killed on your way, in which case imprisonment would fail.
If successfully imprisoned, players would respawn in prison and not be able to rejoin siege unless their friends organize a rescue attempt, and are successful in doing so. This would of course take their time away from defending the city (or attacking in case of opposing side).
Both sides in siege would have ability to attempt to capture prisoners (with risks), and to mount rescues to release their friends from such prisons.
Once siege ends, any existing (unsaved) prisoners would be released as tensions are over.
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Now imagine you are killed, and some system prohibits you reentering the fight. Be it respawn timer, or imprisonment, or smth else...
No for any such ideas.
It also seems pointless as in order for this system to make sense, you would only be able to drag enemies to prison that are close to your base, as such a system should not increase dead players respawn timer.
Say, there is a 60 second respawn cooldown to drag someone to prison, this is highly unlikely to work in the middle of a battlefield due to the distance from place of death to your guilds base/camp. There should also be a movement speed debuff, as well as being unable to defend yourself, as dragging a corpse slows you down drastically and you will need both hands unless you're Hulk or Captain America, but that's a different universe.
If you get attacked while dragging a corpse, you can either let go and defend yourself or keep dragging until you succeed or die. If you let go, the victim can respawn immediately, same if you die.
That's my proposal, but my general opinion is that such a system is unnecessary and just distracting from the main activity - PvP.
This could also work.
I just thought that dragging people around could be fun. Also a system that would further promote more organized teams getting rewarded, as opposed to just better geared ones.
No one even likes CC that lasts for more than a few seconds. If you send someone to prison where they are effectively unable to control their own actions, then that is a terrible mechanic for PvP.
Or maybe we should also add it in as part of the corruption system. If a Bounty Hunter catches you, then you are taken to prison to serve a sentence based on how high your corruption was. So if you have been killing a lot of people, you’re going to sit in that jail for a couple of weeks, unable to play your character. Go all Age of Wushu. How about that?
Seriously, if I was captured and imprisoned during a siege and had to sit around twiddling my thumbs waiting for someone to free me, I would just quit the game and go and do something else. And probably think twice about coming back. Any game that is going to remove my ability to play my character is not really a game for me.
How about every dead player automaticaly respawns in prison, but there are 3 ways of getting out.
1. A rescue team invades the prison and opens the gate.
2. Your corpse gets carried by an allied player to an allied healing/supply camp
that gives you the choice to teleport out of prison to said camp.
3. The siege ends and your free anyway.
I'm unsure of exactly how you resurrect after you die. Do you run back to your body from a graveyard or simply pop back up with full health there? Do you respawn at a bed or inn on the opposite side of the node (freehold bed)? does the invading army respawn at a temporary camp or the same graveyard as the defending army? To me, during a siege it becomes more of a question of how quickly you can get back into the fight.
Also, sieges aren't going to just happen, there is a long series of events and preparation to get one started, and then it only lasts about 2 hours. To have a mechanic that forces people to sit in a jail cell on an integral fight is off-putting to me. However there does need to be consequences for dying, to keep the sides from a zerg fest. Increased spawn timers or maybe a maximum number can resurrect at a graveyard within a certain time.
Maybe besides being saved with outside help, there could be a way for you to escape the prison on your own (but it would be harder if you don't have outside help).
When offering the option to the defenders, attackers will have close to no chance of freeing their mates, except they finish the siege with a victory. So by the long term of each siege, the attackers will be put at a huge disadvantage.
Further more, the amount of possible actions to be planned for (e.g. attack wall X, attack gate Y, defend tower Z) is enough action for everybody. Putting people aside to pack dead players on their back to drag those back to the prision is to much, IMO.
I can see in the system they have, if the attackers hold certain places or nodes, it can affect how many resources the defenders have, including number or troops. They in essence can truely "siege" the node through attrition.
The defenders can then over run the siege camps of the attackers, essentially "capturing troops" and limiting the resources of the attackers.
I'm not in favor of imprisoning players physically unless they've somehow broken game rules.
Not that they won't anyway, this would just encourage it. Wipe the enemy as fast as possible so they are stuck in prison.
If there were a possibility of arranging your own escape while imprisoned... That might be fun, would give rogues a whole different niche for siege pvp.
How long does every one think a siege will last?
10 minutes?
30 minutes?
an Hour?
Longer?
Potentially being locked up for any of these time frames, IMO, is a really bad idea.
Thats not quite true at all.. A zerg fest is when both sides have loads of units at all times due to fast respawn timers and there isnt a more rewarding objective than killing the enemy.
My system would give a bigger meaning to death as it drasticaly reduces the ability to fill up the rows for endless zerging and also it creates another important objective: freeing allied players.
One could increase the respawn timer or let players respawn in a very distant location to prevent massive zergs without this prison system, but it still wouldn't add an extra objective to free allies.
I realized that many people dont want to wait in prison until they are freed.. So how about dead people respawn somewhere outside of the node without the ability to get into the node again until an ally opens the prison gates which gives the players a option to teleport into the prison with now open gates?
Uao said
I realized that many people dont want to wait in prison until they are freed.. So how about dead people respawn somewhere outside of the node without the ability to get into the node again until an ally opens the prison gates which gives the players a option to teleport into the prison with now open gates?
Why would you limit the ability for someone to enter a node?
I am also not sure how spawning outside of the node is related to the prison gates in this example. Do you mean they spawn in a prison?
Please no teleportation outside of Science Metropolis ZOI.
Why would you want to use your time in a sub game to prevent someone else from being able to play? I would be more okay with longer respawn times for those involved with a siege (all node citizens in ZOI and all members of the Siege) over shorter respawn times but another player gets to put me in prison.
The risk of a siege is;
1) Losing resources and failing
2) Losing control of the city.
Why add 3) Other players can place you in prison so you can't participate unless other members trying to protect the node (arguably way more important) risk imprisonment to free you.
Also, I will likely not play a rogue so I would be less able to help myself out. Yes, this would be great for someone playing a rogue that really wants to break out of confinement, but not for me.
I don't understand the purpose of this suggestion.
The reason behind all this is to encourage high strategic combat.
For that death has to be meaningful. People shouldn't yolo run into the fight spam some buttons - oh i died, nvm i respawn in 30 sec and can keep going - thats not how real sieges work. You can do this with standard zerg battlegrounds as they exist in other games like wow.
So the idea is to exclude players from the battlefield when they die. And since people dont want to sit in a narrow box for 2 hours and pay for that, they will instead be abel to continue playing the game just not within the siege area.
But everyone deserves a second chance, so there could be 2 empty prisons or call them summoning stone for understanding reasons.
One of these would be somewhere in the sieged city and could be invaded by rouges and alike who will already be abel to climb walls and stuff.
The other one could be placed somewhere outside with some fast build wooden baricades to help defend it. The attackers would need to activate the summon in the city, the defenders would need to activate the one outside.
On activation the people who already died during that siege will get the option to teleport to that position to get the previous mentioned second chance.
People that didn't die wouldn't get locked out of the node, but neither could they be summoned to that place. So it isnt really fast travel as you would have to die there in the first place to get summoned again.
And as these summoning prisons sometimes get heavily defended to prevent the mass respawn of enemys and people still want their second chance ofc,
their allies could carry the corpse to a first aid supply station which would allow that particular player to spawn at the first aid station after 15 seconds or so as i suggested in an earlier post.
This would primarily help the players that die at the very beginning of the siege as they're possibly still close to the supply stations and dont need to be carried for a long distance.
Maybe you could even give players the option to spawn outside of the node - to get summoned again later on and do other stuff meanwhile; or the other option to really spawn inside of the prison for spionage of the defending force and a difficult possibility to escape the prison early somehow. That one was an idea of @Gothix maybe he has some more indepth ideas on how to possibly break out of prison?
If it really happens to be too difficult to invade the prison and there are to few people fighting in that siege after a short period of time, one could add another mechanic, that people also get the option to respawn at the supply camp after ~3-60 minutes (regardless of if they've choosen to respawn outside of the node or within the prison right after they died).
The exact respawn time could be related to the overall participation of the community within that siege, if there are just a few players attacking/defending respawn timer would be faster, and with huge participation it would be longer..
That would make sure the fight doesnt run out of participants early and decreases the need to allocate people to rescue corpses to the healing station if there are too few people;
it would help gpu performance in huge fights a bit;
and possibly enables a little balancing if one side is completely outnumbered from begin with.
Did this clarify the idea?
Not as intense as what your proposing, the mechanics involve wouldn't force any sort of rescue (though if we're talking about rescue missions jail break for your crimes was a thing but that's another topic). But it still gives you the sort of thrill of taking down a top player and you can screen cap your achievement for all those internet/guild points.
This would allow players to still focus on the main objective (which is the siege itself), while still getting the perks of the prisoner system.
Now if you were adamant about this prisoner system where ppl would need to rescue their members then you would need to tie it to a siege mechanic. (Think of a point system) Where one can win a siege if one captures 4/5 of the executives (which would be node leaders or GM/Officers). This would allow for more interesting tactics while not directing impairing the siege.
This extra mechanic for winning wars would allow small effective units (or guilds) to be able to participate in nodes/guildwars. While larger zerg like guilds can focus on the more traditional way of fighting (throw bodies at the problem).
To those concerned about being locked out permanently from a war because you were captured, well why are you trying to yolo a siege on your own? But that's more of a philosophical question regarding the ideologies of war in videos games. To appease those who are worried why not put an objective limit on it (instead of an indefinite time period of being captured). I PRESUME there will be objectives to destroy/capture in order to siege a castle/node when a certain objective has been met the prisoners will be sent back to their base (so they can still participate and fight) but before that objective is taken (if they were captured before) they are stuck till someone rescues them. This will allow those who have been captured a chance to still make a difference even after being out of the fight when they come back, while at the same time being a deference to just yoloing and dying because they don't want to wait till a certain objective has been completed by the enemy before they can rejoin.
My corpse, no
My imprisonment, no
My siege time, no
You need to let it go, you need to let it go
A solo player logs back on in the middle off a city after a few days away from the game due to work reasons.
He finds that a siege has been declared on his home.
He is automatically assigned to the defending side.
Gets one shotted from a distance.
So no guild to 'rescue' him - he'd be penalised for not guilding
How do you 'drag' him if you can't reach his corpse? There would have to be an autospawn elsewhere function.
How would he get out of an endless nightmare of respawn, death? The proposed mechanics don't allow for 'running away' or simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Most players can suck up one death, but being trapped or forced against your will to re-enter a fight? Yeah, not so much.
Whilst I do like the idea of a prison camp, I cant see how it would work fairly to all in practice, and the option of simply removing them from battle if they die? Well, Not sure anyone would like not being able to re join friends....
I'll watch this one...
Why not simplify the mechanic and just have them respawn at the point furthest from the node but within ZOI. Although, in this case, a science metropolis that was under siege should have any fast travel options "locked" until after the siege ends.
This way it takes time, not all avatars have to spawn at the same point (maybe a radius) and they could, if they wanted, get back into combat. As far as that not being the way real sieges work IRL, for me that argument holds no water in a fantasy environment.
@Guildart mentioned a point system w/ capture of high ranked players. I like the thought of a point system and I believe that is part (or will be part) of the siege mechanic. I just don't think it requires locking people out of content and making them rely on other players to allow them back in. Of course, I would not use this argument to force dungeon parties to accept anyone who wants to join, so I would not be offended if you ignore that particular point.
@Chubaka, I do play Elder-Scrolls, Fallout and Witcher and it will likely take me FOREVER to choose a guild, so well done! You nailed my playstyle
I will most likely be in that 10%.
That being true, I do 100% agree with you it will be amazingly hard to log in at just the right time to be in the middle of a siege w/out being aware.
To @Megs example though, that would totally suck and I would likely have serious feels about it. But with my suggestion, spawning far from the siege with the option to go back or leave the area the "respawning groundhog day" scenario could be avoided.
*really long post, sorry*
Another issue with imprisonment are those players that are actively defending their city when it's lost to the enemy and they have to go back to their freeholds to defend that. Imprisonment could prevent them from defending their freehold immediately after a siege, and that imo is not fair.
As I said Age of Wushu/Wulin would only allow officers of that sect to be captured. So those who were in high positions would know what they were getting into, it's not some random "pleb" that gets taken out, but rather a high level player who understands the importance of their role and how their actions can negatively affect the entire battle field.
The same could be said for any city mayor/council/leader ect... they get the benefit of being a ruler (or high elite) with the perks that come with it, but there is also some risk involved when engaging in war. If you're a hotshot don't just randomly run around without an entourage.
Also this capture mechanic isn't some easy grab and dash, if you're decently intelligent most the time you wont get caught out by yourself or you wont dive into an enemy zerg. You will take calculated risk and adds an extra layer of thrill to wars knowing that you (if ur an officer/leader) can be captured at anytime and dragged to the enemy encampment (hopefully you have guards who can kill those who are trying to take ur corpse).
If defenders and attackers will be abel to go back into the siege area from some random radius point, the siege will turn into an arkward 'run towards the mid/current objective and kill everyone on your way until you die and repeat' fight. It would loose all positional strategy and replace actual mechanics with walking back into the zerg.