@Azathoth If defenders and attackers will be abel to go back into the siege area from some random radius point, the siege will turn into an arkward 'run towards the mid/current objective and kill everyone on your way until you die and repeat' fight. It would loose all positional strategy and replace actual mechanics with walking back into the zerg.
Not really. If youve ever played battlefield 4 i think a system similar to that would work. You would spawn so far out that it would lead to a strategic return to the battle not just running in crazy. You also cant ever rule out the random adventurers who may stumble across the siege and choose a side much like the mercenaries in Berserk would join a battle and enlist with the side they thought would win, in that situation you could have skirmish groups running touch and go distracting the invading forces. of course some people would just make a bee line straight back but i have faith enough of the player base for this game is going to be old/smart enough not to try to run straight back into it and maybe try to support their allies from the outside by sabotage(destroying siege equipment) or assassination(killing key figures in the battle such as healers, CC). Aso i dont think you should be able to talk in chat channels if youre dead except maybe a spirit channel that healers would be able to see based on proximity to the dead spirit in which case you could take out the siege leaders and ruin their teamwork.
hey you know that game you were playing? it's now just sitting and staring at your monitor. If the "prison" system has some way to make a prison break I could see this, but having no options and just sitting takes away fun, if it happened to me, I'd just logout and come back in a half hour or however long the timer is.
@Chubaka So you think defenders that spawn outside of the city walls and need to run through enemy masses all alone to get back in would be a good idea?
With my prison idea they would either spawn inside the city walls if they got carried to the supply station/wait for the cooldown or be respawned in a large group outside of the walls much likely abel to defend themself without getting overrun by masses of enemys.
You cant compare this to battlefield. Shooter mechanics are fundamentaly diffrent as all attacks pretty much kill everyone with 1-3 hits and can be shot from super far distance. So ofc everyone is extra careful. This is an mmo and if you want to prevent boring mass zergs you need to actively prevent it through multiple mechanics, it will absolutely not happen on its own.
I'm hoping the death penalty will be enough to discourage people from playing recklessly. Hopefully the negative exp would build up and people who die a lot will get weak.
I'm hoping the death penalty will be enough to discourage people from playing recklessly. Hopefully the negative exp would build up and people who die a lot will get weak.
So, the strong get stronger and the weak get weaker? That sounds like poor game design.
That is a fair point, but capturing someone for up to 2 hours (most likely less) I don't think is any better position. Both options we presented, as argued, either rely on others to take time to help you during a siege or puts others at risk and spreads the battlefield into a chaotic mess.
However, attacking random players in the ZOI we likely not help the siege, so that would be the players choice. Also, taking time to bust your buddy out because he can help more than you also falls onto the player.
As for the general mechanic, I think there should be risk for that level of position. But that position will be earned, not given, so lot's of risk should go into obtaining it. Being drug away, potentially from your freehold, by other players allowing them greater access to ravage your freehold does not seem fair, regardless of the players position in the game.
While the concept is definitely unique and interesting, taking away a player's freedom for a longer than normal duration would only induce rage and hate for sieges. People are going to pay $15 to roam around a world and explore it to their heart's content, being trapped in a prison is counter to that idea.
I like this idea. BUT, I should have chosen the 2nd option because I am not for the idea of going to a prison, and Steven already decided that it won't be implemented, BUT this is how it should go:
-Player on defending side dies -Player will face the typical 30-45 second penatly -The players dead body can be "dragged" by an ALLY to a respawn point -If the players body reaches the respawn point, he gets his time reduced by a certain amount
So, with this idea there should be no jail system, but a player who has died should be able to have his time reduced if an ally drags his body to a respawn point. The dragging mechanic doesn't have to be the only way, maybe the ally only has to "treat the wounds" of the dead player which will reduce their penalty time and let them respawn at the respawn point. I like the idea of being able to help the fallen allies, it makes the experience more... realistic.
@Duninn If you mean that I should save my allies without being annoyed at their death... then yes, of course! I'd do it happily! If you're joking then..... haha?
When a siege starts, as a citizen of that node, you'll automatically become a 'defender', now that doesn't mean you have to take part in fighting if you don't want to, you could just make sure you were elsewhere, but I believe that you really will want to fight for your home.
The siege shouldn't last too long once it begins, think hours not days, so your normal 'city' day job shouldn't come into play.
There is a player item drop rate in PvP if you lose (die or in this instance, get taken prisoner) So yes, you may lose part of what youre carrying, the trick there would just to ensure you take nothing into battle that you couldn't live without, and we'll all get prep time before fighting starts.
In all likelihood yes, Your home would be destroyed if your side lost. But you would have had a chance to save your home 'layout' and all items in the home will be returned to you, so yes you lose the building, but you'd be able to easily start again. As the successful siege ends, the city delevels, so the city house availability resets back to an earlier stage.
But this is just my understanding of things, Im often wrong.
I can see where you coming from with your idea its nice but I don't think it would work. What happens when your locked up. It could get a bit boring standing around in a cell and this is a game after all. Would rather get killed and expelled from town for a period of time.
While the concept is definitely unique and interesting, taking away a player's freedom for a longer than normal duration would only induce rage and hate for sieges. People are going to pay $15 to roam around a world and explore it to their heart's content, being trapped in a prison is counter to that idea.
People are paying much more in another game for the same thing to happen. The Developers there said "get over it, it's a part of life", now I don't think it would really work in this game.
Honestly, if you sought to devise a penalty system for Siege PVP, I would recommend one of the two systems: (A) Players can perform an execute on a foe, This could extend a receiving player's respawn timer and make them un-rezzable.
(B) Kind of like in WoW, be able to loot a player's "Guild Insignia", making them respawn further from combat and possibly un-rezzable.
Getting rid of player choice like that is just gonna make people mad and walk away. The most I could see you do is have an option to desecrate a corpse which takes a little bit but adds to someones respawn time and even that seems a bit much depending on how it's scaled.
This just seem like a system that would cause undue frustration to players. Sieges are only available for a limited time, and this system would limit a players chance to take part in it meaningfully. I for one would be pretty pissed off if I missed the majority of the siege because I was stuck in a POW camp. Its a cool idea but I see it as just hindering a players enjoyment of a limited time event.
I'm hoping the death penalty will server this purpose and punish people who constantly running to their deaths.
Yeah, I think this often overlooked mechanic is going to really gobsmack some people once they realize that just running up to suicide on a world boss in pve or pulling too many packs of mobs and getting killed over and over has similar penalties to dying while flagged. The same for those that do so during sieges and instead of playing smart just cannon fodder into a wall gap are going to see a reduction in their effectiveness. .
I'm pretty much agree with Steven that experience debt is already a huge penalty for people running straight to their death and being a prisoner can be a terrible experience. If you can't play or be a part of the game during 20min or even more would be very frustrating. Increasing spawn timer while being able to see the battlfield seems to me the highest penalty bearable by players (or just myself ).
Comments
So you think defenders that spawn outside of the city walls and need to run through enemy masses all alone to get back in would be a good idea?
With my prison idea they would either spawn inside the city walls if they got carried to the supply station/wait for the cooldown or be respawned in a large group outside of the walls much likely abel to defend themself without getting overrun by masses of enemys.
You cant compare this to battlefield. Shooter mechanics are fundamentaly diffrent as all attacks pretty much kill everyone with 1-3 hits and can be shot from super far distance. So ofc everyone is extra careful.
This is an mmo and if you want to prevent boring mass zergs you need to actively prevent it through multiple mechanics, it will absolutely not happen on its own.
However, attacking random players in the ZOI we likely not help the siege, so that would be the players choice. Also, taking time to bust your buddy out because he can help more than you also falls onto the player.
As for the general mechanic, I think there should be risk for that level of position. But that position will be earned, not given, so lot's of risk should go into obtaining it. Being drug away, potentially from your freehold, by other players allowing them greater access to ravage your freehold does not seem fair, regardless of the players position in the game.
-Player on defending side dies
-Player will face the typical 30-45 second penatly
-The players dead body can be "dragged" by an ALLY to a respawn point
-If the players body reaches the respawn point, he gets his time reduced by a certain amount
So, with this idea there should be no jail system, but a player who has died should be able to have his time reduced if an ally drags his body to a respawn point. The dragging mechanic doesn't have to be the only way, maybe the ally only has to "treat the wounds" of the dead player which will reduce their penalty time and let them respawn at the respawn point. I like the idea of being able to help the fallen allies, it makes the experience more... realistic.
My opinion on this is that I'm for it. But I have a couple of questions...
What would happen to the citizen's role once their captured/the city is sieged?
Do they go on being a Merchant, or a city guard? (Whatever occupation they had prior to being sieged)
Once they're released what happens? Do they get their items taken once in prison, would they possibly get them back?
Once someone sieges a city do all the towns/houses reset so that anyone can buy them?
If I was a prisoner and I had a house, would it be lost?
When a siege starts, as a citizen of that node, you'll automatically become a 'defender', now that doesn't mean you have to take part in fighting if you don't want to, you could just make sure you were elsewhere, but I believe that you really will want to fight for your home.
The siege shouldn't last too long once it begins, think hours not days, so your normal 'city' day job shouldn't come into play.
There is a player item drop rate in PvP if you lose (die or in this instance, get taken prisoner) So yes, you may lose part of what youre carrying, the trick there would just to ensure you take nothing into battle that you couldn't live without, and we'll all get prep time before fighting starts.
In all likelihood yes, Your home would be destroyed if your side lost. But you would have had a chance to save your home 'layout' and all items in the home will be returned to you, so yes you lose the building, but you'd be able to easily start again.
As the successful siege ends, the city delevels, so the city house availability resets back to an earlier stage.
But this is just my understanding of things, Im often wrong.
If they want to roam around a world, they will not be under castle walls where siege is going on. They will be roaming the world somewhere, instead.
(B) Kind of like in WoW, be able to loot a player's "Guild Insignia", making them respawn further from combat and possibly un-rezzable.
P.S.
@Vortigern Fair enough.
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