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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Open World PvP
ArchivedUser
Guest
Hi Ashes of Creation Team,
i wanted to talk about a very important thing in a MMORPG, like the topic says "PvP"
I hope you guys think about us too. In all the Years i Played MMORPGS (WoW, Aion, RIFT, Tera, Blade and Soul) i can clearly say in all ways PvE was really good, i had absolutly nothing to talk about bad things, i cant even say bad things to PvE Content in all this Games.
But one Point dissapointed me really often, and it was PvP, i really Love PvP and i think there are a lot of Players who loves PvP too.
In all this games i Listed, there is one Game where the PvP made a lot of fun, and it was AION.
I know AoC is not Aion, but i hope you implent a good OPEN WORLD PVP in this Game.
Little Description:
In Aion you had Quests, where you get Rewards you only got from Open World PvP, dungeons you could only Enter if you Raided with 200-500 people to get PvP Points for your PvP gear, Quests you only could do in PvP Area, Normal Dungeons you could only Enter in PvP area.
(In Some dungeons you cant avoid PvP to enter a PvE dungeon, or World Bosses)
there was no (I turn now PvP on or off) it was 2 Factions who permanently stayed in "war" to each other, when you saw somebody, you attacked him.
Even when you had General Status in PvP or TOP 1, you could Transform into a Guardian for 10-15 Minutes, and while Transforming there was a notice for the Server that Player XY Transformed into a Guardian.
There was PvP Ranks, Rank 9 - 1, Officer, General, and TOP 1 (Forgot the name)
So Higher the PvP Rank you killed, so much PvP points you got or Lost.
There was Quests like kill 10x Rank 9 Players, after that Kill 10x Rank 8 players and so on.
And After the Kill 3x Asmodian/Elyos General's you got a Legendary Godstone
I can really say it was such a nice Play to make a Group and do Open PvP in PvP Areas.
In AoC we really need this too, please implent items you can only obtain through PvP, and only through OPEN PvP, otherwise the open PvP in this game will be dead like the Open PvP in Blade and Soul.
For Example, in B&S at lvl 45, you had 4-5 Quests (Open World PvP) if you finished it you got 7-11 Soulstones Per day, and this was the only way to obtain Soulstones. After content upgrade and level upgrade to lvl 50 it was ruined, you got Soulstones in PvE and the Open World PvP was dead.
Shortly what i want to try to say is:
Please and i really know there are Players who think like me, please implent a good Open World PvP, people who played Aion know exactly what i mean.
I go now on Youtube and try to search a nice Open World PvP Video
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eSLEPja7u8
Video is not the Best, but it shows what i mean, Video Starts at: 2:22Min
Best Regards
Sylarr
i wanted to talk about a very important thing in a MMORPG, like the topic says "PvP"
I hope you guys think about us too. In all the Years i Played MMORPGS (WoW, Aion, RIFT, Tera, Blade and Soul) i can clearly say in all ways PvE was really good, i had absolutly nothing to talk about bad things, i cant even say bad things to PvE Content in all this Games.
But one Point dissapointed me really often, and it was PvP, i really Love PvP and i think there are a lot of Players who loves PvP too.
In all this games i Listed, there is one Game where the PvP made a lot of fun, and it was AION.
I know AoC is not Aion, but i hope you implent a good OPEN WORLD PVP in this Game.
Little Description:
In Aion you had Quests, where you get Rewards you only got from Open World PvP, dungeons you could only Enter if you Raided with 200-500 people to get PvP Points for your PvP gear, Quests you only could do in PvP Area, Normal Dungeons you could only Enter in PvP area.
(In Some dungeons you cant avoid PvP to enter a PvE dungeon, or World Bosses)
there was no (I turn now PvP on or off) it was 2 Factions who permanently stayed in "war" to each other, when you saw somebody, you attacked him.
Even when you had General Status in PvP or TOP 1, you could Transform into a Guardian for 10-15 Minutes, and while Transforming there was a notice for the Server that Player XY Transformed into a Guardian.
There was PvP Ranks, Rank 9 - 1, Officer, General, and TOP 1 (Forgot the name)
So Higher the PvP Rank you killed, so much PvP points you got or Lost.
There was Quests like kill 10x Rank 9 Players, after that Kill 10x Rank 8 players and so on.
And After the Kill 3x Asmodian/Elyos General's you got a Legendary Godstone
I can really say it was such a nice Play to make a Group and do Open PvP in PvP Areas.
In AoC we really need this too, please implent items you can only obtain through PvP, and only through OPEN PvP, otherwise the open PvP in this game will be dead like the Open PvP in Blade and Soul.
For Example, in B&S at lvl 45, you had 4-5 Quests (Open World PvP) if you finished it you got 7-11 Soulstones Per day, and this was the only way to obtain Soulstones. After content upgrade and level upgrade to lvl 50 it was ruined, you got Soulstones in PvE and the Open World PvP was dead.
Shortly what i want to try to say is:
Please and i really know there are Players who think like me, please implent a good Open World PvP, people who played Aion know exactly what i mean.
I go now on Youtube and try to search a nice Open World PvP Video
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eSLEPja7u8Video is not the Best, but it shows what i mean, Video Starts at: 2:22Min
Best Regards
Sylarr
0
Comments
Node/castle sieges seem like they will be reminiscent of fort sieges in the abyss(minus the flying), but with added layer too it in actual node defenses(possible ballistas, archer towers, whatever they actually end up putting in), and the objectives will work differently. Also it won't be timed like the abyss forts were, it will be player decision that forces this. So sadly these sieges run the chance of being infrequent when compared to forts.
Even with the flagging system, I doubt we will ever get the kind of everyday pvp we saw in aion. Aion, it was just daily life that red=dead. So there will be less of that, but I'm hoping we see a decent incentive by launch to stay flagged, which would make it a little better.
However, caravans sound like they could get close to that true open world pvp feeling. It will definitely lose a bit of that "always looking over your shoulder" feeling Aion gave, but at the same time, you are a huge target, and you have no idea if you'll face no opposition or a giant Zerg. Some I'm looking forward to this.
This game has the potential to have amazing owpvp. Way more controlled and friendly for people who don't want to participate in it but plenty of outlets for those who do. As long as they add incentive to flag and stay flagged while doing every day questing/gathering we will be in good shape. My opinion really does hinge on that incentive tho, because if it's just the death penalties, that wont be enough to get people to stop people from only owpvpiny on their terms.
And for owpvp to not feel scripted and bland you need to have those frequent situations where ganking can happen; where someone can totally just come up and wreck your day because you weren't paying attention.
i still just hope they make a great open pvp
That really is more like some kind of MMOPVP game than an RPG.
One of the best parts of the Ashes design is having real in-game story reasons to be in conflict with other players and want to battle them besides "I want to upgrade my PvP-gear" or "She's flagged as the enemy - KOS!!!"
In Ashes:
We attack the players protecting a rival caravan to prevent an adjacent town from becoming a city so the don't lock our node at the town Stage.
If we fail and the town does become a city, we stage a siege to try to knock it back down to the town Stage.
Perhaps some players will hold grudges and KOS other players they've fought before. But, they might also set aside those grudges and band together to defeat a rampaging Dragon terrorizing their region.
Perhaps a cult in the Science Metropolis hates fast travel and allies with players in rival nodes to have them destroy the fast travel network.
Ashes doesn't have PvP gear separate from PvE gear.
Hopefully, we can minimize the meta reasons for combat - especially PvP combat - like upgrading gear. And maximize the in-game story reasons for combat - like competing for local resources or who gets to reach the metropolis Stage and who doesn't.
i saw blessed will be released in europe soon, saw some videos on youtube, and it has like aion Faction vs Faction PvP with Questing regions you cant aviod PvP.
But lets see what happens in AoC, i think they do a good work, and i really hope they think about the "pvp" players, really missed the open world point, pvp rankings etc.
im really bored about arena-pvp (had it too much in Blade & Soul)
I Put all my hopes in this game
I am really excited as well and can hardly contain it
The flaggining system potentially limits free-for-all PvP combat by penalizing killing non-combatants.
Defense comes in different ways. Deal with it just as they have to.
You aren't even in contested zones until Level 30 and the max is Level 45.
If you die often enough, you will eventually have to spend a few pennies to repair your armor, but it's truly an insignificant cost.
Open world PvP means PvP combat that is not instanced.
Corruption has absolutely nothing to do with that.
Corruption is a deterrent intended to minimize free-for-all PvP combat.
Free-for-all PvP combat and open world combat are not synonymous.
And let's not forget that the "troll" who refuses to fight back gets double the death penalty upon death as a combatant. So, there is a bit of a penalty for such behavior as well.
That *IS* the system.
- All of those MMOs you've listed are Themepark MMOs . Themepark MMOs are only a " one-time thing " - once you go through it all once, the next time is going to be a chore. Ashes of Creation is more SandBox related. But the Nodes are the closest themepark aspect ... but base don further information thats been revealed about Ashes of Creation ... those Themepark aspects are narrow-minded at best, and dodesn't really suite Ashes of Creation. In other words, it'll make Ashes of Creation worse based on how the Devs wants Ashes to be well-rounded & connected ... meaning that Ashes of Creation's Design will outshine those aforementioned Themepark MMOs.
With that said, i personally detest " Organized Open-World PvP " . It becomes too similar like Arena-PvP/ BattleGrounds-PvP. There's no element of Surprise, predictable and it gets dull and ruins any True Open-World PvP. And other things.It practically promotes Zerging imo
- You're out doing your own thing, trying to gather/ finish a mission/ exploring/ crafting/ etc ... and all of a sudden you see 20 - 40 players marching in your general direction about to meet up with another 20 - 40 players. And they see you ...
- they either mistaken you for an opponent or attack regardless without caring (since they're no factions)
And the idea of PvP-Only Mission doesn't really help ..Sylarr said:
No, we don't need Organized Open-World PvP.
But, You must remember is that EVERY MMO youv mentioned always tried to keep the PvErs' Activities & PvPers' Activities separate ( mostly ) . Ashes of Creation is making a PvX MMO - meaning there are trying to give reasons for both sides - PvE Activities & PvP Activities to play/ interact together. Same goes for RPers too ... but RPers can improvise
The " item part " is good, so as long as its not PvP-exclusive. Rather for anyone.
Still though, Ashes of Creation does seem to favor a SandBox MMO.
Bare in mind that the entire premise of a PvP Engagement would depend on what their Combat is like. Plus the thoughtfulness of a variety of Abilities
Not only combat, but gearing, progression, PvE Victor, PvP Gear, OP Builds that creates " Meta " to begin with, etc ... many words/ phrases can use to fit this sentence tbh.
Many concerns I've been reading all stem from the MindSet of Older MMOs - but it doesn't have to resemble anything like them.
But i understand their concerns though
Their are 64 Archetype builds - are being unique and different towards one another. They all should have their Pros & Cons.
But if one performs better over another then that's obviously a problem
However, that'll also be dependent on how Intrepid constructs the Majority of their Combat - in particular, lots of abilities options + player's choosing how they want to play based on what abilities are provided to them
Including any hardcore aspects. For example
- the difference between a Newb Super Smash Bros (melee) player vs a Veteren Smash Bros (melee) Player ... its a big difference
There could potentially be other variables to consider, but we'll wait and see Intrepid's other iterations of Combat .. because so far its just Tab-TargetWhat's my point ? I'll let the below video-link speak for itself. I'll even link the starting-timestamp and post where to stop at.
Determining which of those is objectively OP is meta.
It's the meta mindset that creates OP builds.
And, really, it's the concept that one performs better than another that is meta because the whole point of RPGs is that some combos work better in specific situations than others, rather than having cookie-cutter builds that are always "best".
Seeking cookie-cutter builds that are always best is a meta concept. And, there will always be players stating that they have found the "best" build, regardless of whether it's objectively true.
However, this corruption system... I dont have a lot of faith in it. Here is a scenario: I'm killing mobs, I drop AoE on mobs, player Rogue who is stealthed steps into my AoE, and now he is 100% safe in ganking me. It just seems fairly exploitable. Maybe the devs have covered this, and I just havent seen it.
It doesnt really matter to me as I have always veered toward pvp servers, and I'm used to ganking and have done some ganking myself . However, I don't see this a fool proof. It might be wasted time trying to control the chaos . There may be a way to do it, but IMHO there will always be loopholes and edge cases where it doesn't work.
Never heard of these " experts " , but i always figured testers will assist in breaking it & fixing it
I actually thought of that at first too, but try this for example ...
Read this Post i made recently - it's something that should definitely be considered too
Its something i posted on another thread recently