3rd party programs and Gold selling

ArchivedUser

@Tomoyuki, Don't worry, my bubble is unbreakable.

@Dorje, I wasn't trying to comment specifically back to you I was just stating my thoughts on your previous post. I have no desire to make claims that your ideas/concepts/thoughts are wrong or inferior. You presented that post as opinion "I think..." as opposed to researched facts.

Edit: Not gonna lie, I wrote a small novel in return. I would like to make the claim I am a bit intoxicated.

I understand both points of view here.
I was trying to say that allowing players to play the game for free with a reward that allows them to continue playing for free doesn't generate income.

As for the free trials. I don't like the idea, but that doesn't mean it's without merit. I don't like a lot of things and yet people continue to allow them to exist.

As for gold sellers, as my comment should have stayed on topic the first time around. If the free trial is only for a month, imo, it would allow gold sellers to determine if they can beat the profit margin. If the sub is 15$ and they can make 20$ via a bot, why wouldn't they.

I believe IS will take every opportunity to avoid this.

ArchivedUser

The simple way of avoiding this gold seller debate is to first understand why people would need gold the main reason is to advance a players gear/equipment etc. So I propose a concept which would require a player to do activities in game to facilitate ones progress in obtaining gear rather than buying a single item off the AH.

In other words if a player wants a certain item in game make it so they have to work for it without the need for gold to obtain it. Like BOP items quest reward gear and craft able items which require players to obtain rep with a certain faction to use crafted items.

I think every item obtained should be earned and not bought. World drops would be BOP only and for commodities and items to be traded through an AH system should only be consumables and materials needed to advance rep or to build up nodes.

Like if there wasn't a demand for gold the gold sellers wouldn't have business. Definitely this post needs it's own thread my 2 won worth.

ArchivedUser

@Azathoth Well I seen it in many threads before and that is why if that thinking is the main stream  community this title will inevitably go free to play. The fact is Intrepid is a business and when they like previous mmo's  (Rift, Wildstar, Age of Conan, Champions Online, and etc.) don't have the player base to support them they do the next best thing which is go free to play.

Got to think outside the box and luckily for Intrepid who is basically ripping off most of their features from previous mmo's and refining them they can take systems that have already been proven to work and implement them for their game of course with slight adjustments/tweaks.

@Pumba2988 I don't see how this can work when they already spoke of an economy that is going work similar to Eve Online (which is why they are hiring an actual economist). You are going to get gold farmers in any mmo, the key is to cut them out by having the studio handle the transaction. The feature I described only works in mmo's that are going to not have a simple economy like World of Warcraft.

ArchivedUser

Intrepid is a business, but they are trying to build a franchise expanding their source of income to better incorporate their game. Is there a risk they don't have enough subs + cash shop income to keep the doors open, sure. Regardless of what system is put in place, paywalls, subs, trials, that chance remains.

I would prefer they start with subs at a standard(ish) price and then lower the cost if they have to. I think IS would have to be at the point of not caring about Ashes for it to go f2p, but at that point there obviously wouldn't be enough players to care.

Are you suggesting starting with f2p options is thinking outside the box? That seems to be done, a lot, for a novel idea.

As for the "ripping" off you claim Ashes is doing, I think that is harsh. As I have stated in another thread, at some point most things that we can try (that work) are tested and proven. Why not use them?

If this is the case I guess all games are ripping something from another. That says more about the market than is does the creators.

ArchivedUser

@Azathoth Now I am not sure what you are arguing for,  as it still doesn't make the game F2P by buying a GTC. Vast majority of players would just pay the sub so they can do stuff other then harvesting.

As for ripping them off, well that is being truthful as they aren't really being innovative. I mean every system they are implementing has been done before, the question is how they are going to refine it. Calling something that obvious "harsh" is in my view being overly sensitive and really irrelevant. 

You are right that all games rip off from each other. There has been games that were in my opinion innovative and yet the studio still went under.

ArchivedUser

@Tomoyuki, I am sorry you can't keep up and add things to arguments and pretend they were always there. Since you seem to think my dissenting opinion is in some form a direct insult to you, I will abide.

As for your idea about; 
---
"I would say make it legal on the market place. Players who want to buy gold would instead pay game time (in the form of 1-2 month time blocks)  from Intrepid Studios and post it on the market for X gold. This helps almost all parties minus the gold seller from a 3rd party website. 

This assists increasing the player base for new comers that doesn't have the ability to pay for a sub based game and so they can take time to farm up the gold. Another thing to add on is character transfers where people can utilize these forums to post X built character and I want X gold. Seller pays $20 transfer fee to Intrepid and buyer pays in game gold and bam no need to buy another account since you are too damn lazy to level yourself, even though you have all that time to farm that gold."
---

This sounds horrible.
This, imo, doesn't make any sense. You want to allow people that pay a monthly sub cost to be able to give up some of that paid time so they can cash that out in gold?

You want players to be able to buy gold? Why? That's counter intuitive to risk versus reward.
You want IS to willingly make it easier for someone to build a character and then sell it to someone else? Why? That's counter intuitive to risk versus reward.

Sorry your idea makes no sense to me. But, I no longer care.

ArchivedUser

Ugh whenever I remember bots I can't take it, I agree to bots in games like MU Online or Tibia (games that became less and less engaging to play over time) but thats it, a game is supposed to be played not left alone so your character can rack up gold and stuff.

ArchivedUser

@AutumnLeaf
I do not even agree about bots in games like MU Online or Tibia. That is true, these games have become less engaging to play but they was not meant to play as bots in the first place. Just lazy people found a way to be much more lazy (which is kinda cool, but it destroy games).

ArchivedUser

Azathoth said:

Allowing players to play-to-pay is a horrible idea, imo.

It generates no income to IS. I don't know why anyone would throw 15$/month into the cash shop if they can't a sub.
It forces players to mine so they can pay sub cost as opposed to playing game. This reduces fun and allows gold farming, an example would be farming for 1 month to pay for 2 months of free play.
Allowing players to trade game time for gold or vice-versa seems ridiculous and allows players to play for free effectively reducing sub profits.
Imo this would be something that prevented Ashes from making a great MMORPG.

Reducing sub profits intentionally leads to free-play. Free-play leads to pay-to-win or the game dying completely. I know what pay to win means, it's how games can market themselves as "free-to-play" but guarantee profit from players that want full access, better gear, etc. Free-play leads to P2W or a dead game (unless someone just throws millions away so others can enjoy their game).

Actually this is straight quote of your first argument thankfully not edited.

Azathoth said:

This sounds horrible.
This, imo, doesn't make any sense. You want to allow people that pay a monthly sub cost to be able to give up some of that paid time so they can cash that out in gold?

You want players to be able to buy gold? Why? That's counter intuitive to risk versus reward.
You want IS to willingly make it easier for someone to build a character and then sell it to someone else? Why? That's counter intuitive to risk versus reward.

Sorry your idea makes no sense to me. But, I no longer care.

Really not much of a difference in your argument, so not sure why you are under the impression I am some how hostile. I actually welcome dissenting opinion (hence why I am already making a splash), but the only difference between your previous argument of it is going to be F2P/Intrepid not making much money to you are making it easier, is in my opinion the fear of adding innovative systems that can possibly work.

Eve Online has already implemented said system and when it was originally put through the same back lash occurred like you are having now. But in reality it is actually beneficial as it helps move what is inevitable for a game like this (with an advance economy) to move money around other then crafting from the super rich to the middle or impoverished players (in game). Just comes down to a time concept, some people has a lot of time to acquire said in game money, others with actual careers or deployments don't get the same luxury.

As for being easy how so? If you can purchase good gear that is cool, it still doesn't mean you are going to benefit if I know what I am doing from pvp experience. This comes down to how much of the balance it is between characters innate abilities to gear stats.  If I build my character for single combat pvp you can be decked out as much as you want I won't be that far off gear wise and still kill you. Not uncommon in Eve for new pilots (rerolled) to kill high level sp pilots that doesn't understand the mmo's game mechanics and bought their character (with in game money of course) to get podded.

Building character for in game sales might be a little extreme, especially with barely any info on how character progression works, but I think it might be reasonable. It is going to come down to the trinity, which is combat, economy, and gear. If they are actually balanced then really is irrelevant what people can do with their money. But one thing is certain, rmter's are going to still try to sell so Intrepid can cut them out completely and make it nearly impossible in my opinion.

As for implementation probably say after the 2nd or 3rd expansions at is stupid to do it right out of the gate. Economy isn't established and if they get their "advance economy" off the ground it is going to be after they remove the npc price floor. This is when player crafters start putting their wares on the market. 

If you want to avoid discussion it is your prerogative, but sometimes I don't think you really read my posts or you don't seem to pick apart any actual points. It seems only to be slight changes from my perception.