New guy questions and concerns

ArchivedUser

I have a question with character models, is what we saw at pax just a place holder? The characters seem very out of place from the world. Likewise when I watched a live stream the characters themself seemed out of place. 

Then I have a concern around pvp. From my understanding players who kill people who don't want to do pvp get this: no gain, harder to kill the next target, a bounty, flagged red, and kill on site, and Chance to lose gear on death. That just isn't worth it. There is no gain, no balancing act. It's not like the green player looses anything other than a little time. It's not chronicles of Elyria where death is a thing. 

I have a concern around nodes bringing content. Will there be a zone that always has content? If players start to track down what nodes bring what are you expecting barren zones and how do you want to prevent that in a world where people will go to a third party program? 

Giving feedback on the quick time thing. I personally dislike it. But I could comprise if you A made combat faster, after all if you are doing combos it does need to be faster, and B made it more focal. In wow there was an add on called ice hud. It just moved you hp and mana bar around your character model. It was a pretty sweet add on. Take a look at that. 

And one of my more cooler questions. What do you have in mind for non combat resolutions. In dnd there is persuasion, lying, disguises, it goes on. One of the things I'm starting feel about mmorpgs is the everyone is doing combat, but there are more ways to resolve problems. 

ArchivedUser

Ice hud 
https://media-elerium.cursecdn.com/avatars/62/667/636142184789217961.jpg

ArchivedUser

Character models are indeed just placeholders and will be developed and tweaked over the course of next couple years. PAX was a demo of what they planned to do, and they stated multiple times (which many people seem to ignore) that it was only about 20% of what they imagined combat would be.

The corruption mechanic to add sting to unsolicited ganking is harsh for a reason. Your assumption that the "green" people lose nothing however is incorrect. I suggest reading this closely then form an opinion.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Fvr9KYT104i8WYppCup1v6SUTZFJTobVz8uRHDas4YM/edit

Yes, on nodes always having content of some sort. Look at relevant livestreams and interviews to fill in the gaps. Currently around 30 hours of livestreams and video interviews out there, not to mention the Discord quotes and information that has been dropped and confirmed.

Combat is a core system and is being improved with each iteration. Hopefully they will get to whatever point you are looking for.

There are several "non-combat resolutions" planned and have been confirmed. Do the research and your eyes will be opened. Happy Hunting!

ArchivedUser

thank you  

ArchivedUser

Well I read about corruption and what do you get out of killing greenies. Why even do it. It's not like there is an honor currency. I'm a pretty big pvper. I like killing other players when they get in my way of questing. But I am essentially pushed against it at all costs, and the defender is pushed to attack back. 

ArchivedUser

Faraven said:

Well I read about corruption and what do you get out of killing greenies. Why even do it. It's not like there is an honor currency. I'm a pretty big pvper. I like killing other players when they get in my way of questing. But I am essentially pushed against it at all costs, and the defender is pushed to attack back. 

The person who stays green and doesn't attack back gains twice as much exp death penalty as someone who attacks back and dies. You also will gain a higher percentage of looted materials from greens vs purples. It is meant to be an option of last resort, not a money maker. You want to screw with  green people outside of pvp flagged areas like caravans you are going to pay a cost if you continue attacking after it is clear they have no intention of attacking back. There are plenty of flagging mechanics through the node enemies declarations, guild war mechanics and others. If you are looking for a penalty free "I will kill who I want when I want, and screw you!" sort of game you are going to be disappointed. You could still act that way, you are just going to find it not profitable currency or time sink wise.

ArchivedUser

You like killing things that don't fight back?
Nothing is stopping a player from meaningful PvP. If that resource you are guarding is really so valuable you can't bare to share then it is worth a bit of corruption.
If you are willing to kill a player that doesn't fight back, you should be willing to be killed when you don't want to fight back. As for the "easier to be killed w/ corruption" argument, you took the time to kill a player that didn't fight back and then chose to do so again and again, it's only fair you get to the point where you can't fight back, imo.

I don't think IS will release a game with no quest/content in large swaths of land because nodes are not all active, that would be weird.

As for the combat, I am hoping they don't need or allow add on's. If their combat requires an add on they failed. This will likely be remedied in the Alphas and Betas.

I was unaware of the non-combat resolution theme, thank you USE.

ArchivedUser

To be fair pvp is important. Yes I agree with all of these harsh penalties I really do guys. But if I kill someone I should get some form of reward. I mean the killer has a chance to loose equipped items, and reading that transcript, all if curropted all items when they die. I understand everyone drops items but it's a little intense. You need to have balance with this system. It should be a risk vs reward kind of thing. 

I undrstand the higher loot chance, but now we are doing numbers games for grinding so it isn't predictable. Sorry if I sound brutal guys but I came from eve, which is a dog eat dog game. 

ArchivedUser

The thing is in eve there is a high sec lowsec null sec which changes what happens if you kill someone. If you kill someone in high sec concord comes and attempts to blow you up, yes u can run but you lose sec status. If your sec status gets to low you can't enter high sec anymore. The system is basicly the same. 

ArchivedUser

Not really. You blow up a ship in eve that's it. They lost. Here your character just has to run back and respawn. 

ArchivedUser

You lose sec status for doing that xD if your sec stays goes below a number (that I can't remeber) you cannot go into high sec without concord targeting you. In null sec you cannot lose sec status due to there being no status to the systems. In low sec you lose most of it by podding people.  In high sec you lose it from killing any ship.  It has consequences when PvP is done not is designated areas just like AoC will. 

Here is a link to a well put together information on AoCs PvP. 
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/33075/information-world-pvp#latest

ArchivedUser

The losing of ship comparison vs losing gathering materials is the part you don't seem to like though. They haven't given us the percentage of gathered materials that a "green" player will lose if they don't fight back. Maybe it is 90% so that person could of spent 5 hours gathering ans you just took 90% of their effort. That's a pretty big deal. 

ArchivedUser

In eve not only can you get their mats when they die, it's also their means of getting those mats. The modules the ship and their inventory are all gone. 

ArchivedUser

So the equivalent would be also destroying their freehold? Sounds like a survival gank box (not eve, Ashes with freehold looting after PK of green player).

Players that don't fight back incur xp penalty and lose more resources than if they fought back and lost. As for "running back to spawn point" I didn't know they confirmed what happens when you die. A player that attacks and kills a green player gains more resources than if they player fought back, and are risking nothing during the combat.

The risk comes after you take it to completion and kill the player. You gain the reward and the risk. I am still not sure why players that want to kill green players think they are the ones being unfairly treated by the corruption system.

The argument over corruption being too much or corruption being adequate has raged on in many other threads. Those on opposite sides rarely find common ground and the threads usually end in bashing the other point of view.

ArchivedUser

The mechanic so far upon death is that "normal" deaths will respawn at nearest respawn point. (These will be set in the node). Those that die corrupted will respawn at random. (node wide or world wide not confirmed)

ArchivedUser

What about phantoms, will there be tracking back to point of death?

ArchivedUser

Azathoth said:

What about phantoms, will there be tracking back to point of death?

If you are talking about a non-interactable form where you float back to point of death then resurrect, then so far no. That people will be able to corpse camp is being removed. You will have a choice most likely of release, or wait for someone to rez you. The system that is seen in the December 15th livestream of Alpha 0, like most things, is not the final envisioned system.

ArchivedUser

I do quite like the sound of the PvP system but I am still keeping an open mind on the final product when the game releases.
But if I work for say 4 hours gathering iron only to get some on come along and kill me in 10 secs flat, that to me is game breaking. There must be mechanisms in place to help people being ganked in a node with a good level, say guards rush in our something.
Don't get me wrong I love open world PvP but I do not want to see hours and hours of grinding go down the pan because some one fancies my stuff.

ArchivedUser

They won't be able to take all of your stuff, less if you fight back.

ArchivedUser

Basically it's like this: people, in general have an incentive to fight back which is losing only half of their stuff if they die while fighting back. If the person is such a pacifist that would rather lose twice of his/her stuff instead of fighting back. Then the person killing them is just a murderer and the system brands them as such, if they do it again they stack the debuff until they can't fight anymore, yes there will be a point where the murderer will have enough stacks that will be ineffective in combat.

That is in place to prevent people from just going around looking for other people that don't want to be involved in PvP to get an easy kill and instead go and look for meaningful fights with people that will actually fight back and probably give them a challenge that is a true honorable kill. I mean you want honor for killing someone that was just standing there or a recompense. There is no honor in that just a senseless murder. 

This imo is actually good for PvPers because they want the thrill of the fight, not just a meek kill, if they were looking for easy kills they would go kill mobs, but no, true PvPers want a challenge, a fight, they want to be recogniced as the guy that killed the legendary "insert other guy's name here", not, oh look that's the guy that gets his honor killing farmers.

ArchivedUser

Not sure if how much is lost has been confirmed, but I think you stated your point (and others) well.

ArchivedUser

Actual percentages have not been confirmed yet, and will be tweaked during testing to make sure there is enough "bite" on both sides. Dying purple will be the least amount, dying green will be double that, and dying corrupted will be 100% has been confirmed it they go with what they have stated so far. Remains to be seen whether it works out to 20, 40, 100 or 40, 80, 100, or any mix in between.