Node character rank.

ArchivedUser

So we know the city leader will be chosen with different methodology based on the type, my question is how does the rest of the needed leadership roles get selected. 

Do you have a second in command should a decision need made and the leader is on maternity leave? Does the leader appoint a defense Minister and a COO? Should these responsibilities be divvied amount the guilds in the city?

Let me know what you've read and what you'd like to see.

ArchivedUser

There has been no mention of how other positions in the node government are filled, or even if they are available. The mechanic of succession in case of emergency was discussed a couple days ago, with basically the same answer. No info so far, so anything else is just speculation. Odds are there won't be since elections are fast enough (monthly) that even is someone was just elected and bailed, it might suck for that node, but wouldn't be unrecoverable. It would also block people from selling their positions, especially once the coveted metropolis ranks are achieved with dragons. I can already see the "Selling the last two days of term before election, msg me to become mayor and get the Dragonlord title!!!" being exploited to shit if there was a player initiated/controlled succession mechanic.

ArchivedUser

There has to be some plan. If the leader does not allocate resources to defend against a siege after X number of days the runner up assumes the command, but maybe not the title it the mount.  

Personally I'd also like guilds leaders to meet and organize defenses in a more organic way. Just to have chat channels not get over crowded or have people shouting over each other in discord. 

ArchivedUser

When danger reared its ugly head Sir Robin turned and bravely fled......

ArchivedUser

Althor said:

So we know the city leader will be chosen with different methodology based on the type, my question is how does the rest of the needed leadership roles get selected. 

Do you have a second in command should a decision need made and the leader is on maternity leave? Does the leader appoint a defense Minister and a COO? Should these responsibilities be divvied amount the guilds in the city?

Let me know what you've read and what you'd like to see.

Well the current system in my opinion is not feasible anyway. If anything it should be like previous MMO's before it and based on feudalism. The guilds that would have castles near the metropolises decide who runs the cities through optional systems of allowing the citizens of said metropolis participate.

The current system is way too easy to exploit for sieges based off the little information they provided so far. I see the guilds that own castles near said metropolises having the most to lose if they allow one to be siegeed successfully. People being auxiliaries in the city would be based on the players motivations if they feel like pvping.

ArchivedUser

I guess it's going to be elections for all types of gov. offices, any other postion aside from the leader could be decided by other people in the gov.

There could also be a system where contributions to the node decide whether or not you get a post.

ArchivedUser

AutumnLeaf said:

I guess it's going to be elections for all types of gov. offices, any other postion aside from the leader could be decided by other people in the gov.

There could also be a system where contributions to the node decide whether or not you get a post.

I believe the selection process for node leader depends on node type. Military has a PvP tournament, science has elections, merchants sorta buy their position and the last one escapes me. 

Tomoyuki said:

Althor said:

So we know the city leader will be chosen with different methodology based on the type, my question is how does the rest of the needed leadership roles get selected. 

Do you have a second in command should a decision need made and the leader is on maternity leave? Does the leader appoint a defense Minister and a COO? Should these responsibilities be divvied amount the guilds in the city?

Let me know what you've read and what you'd like to see.

Well the current system in my opinion is not feasible anyway. If anything it should be like previous MMO's before it and based on feudalism. The guilds that would have castles near the metropolises decide who runs the cities through optional systems of allowing the citizens of said metropolis participate.

The current system is way too easy to exploit for sieges based off the little information they provided so far. I see the guilds that own castles near said metropolises having the most to lose if they allow one to be siegeed successfully. People being auxiliaries in the city would be based on the players motivations if they feel like pvping.

If your home is there and you have a forge or workshop established you will want to fight back. I'm assuming you get perks for longevity within the node. I'm also assuming defending a siege will be flat out fun. I'm planning on mostly exploring as a Falconer and I will definitely planning on making it to as many of the siege events as possible. 

I didn't even really think a lack of interest from citizens would be a significant factor when I was working over government structuring. 

ArchivedUser

Althor said:

AutumnLeaf said:

I guess it's going to be elections for all types of gov. offices, any other postion aside from the leader could be decided by other people in the gov.

There could also be a system where contributions to the node decide whether or not you get a post.

I believe the selection process for node leader depends on node type. Military has a PvP tournament, science has elections, merchants sorta buy their position and the last one escapes me. 

Tomoyuki said:

Althor said:

So we know the city leader will be chosen with different methodology based on the type, my question is how does the rest of the needed leadership roles get selected. 

Do you have a second in command should a decision need made and the leader is on maternity leave? Does the leader appoint a defense Minister and a COO? Should these responsibilities be divvied amount the guilds in the city?

Let me know what you've read and what you'd like to see.

Well the current system in my opinion is not feasible anyway. If anything it should be like previous MMO's before it and based on feudalism. The guilds that would have castles near the metropolises decide who runs the cities through optional systems of allowing the citizens of said metropolis participate.

The current system is way too easy to exploit for sieges based off the little information they provided so far. I see the guilds that own castles near said metropolises having the most to lose if they allow one to be siegeed successfully. People being auxiliaries in the city would be based on the players motivations if they feel like pvping.

If your home is there and you have a forge or workshop established you will want to fight back. I'm assuming you get perks for longevity within the node. I'm also assuming defending a siege will be flat out fun. I'm planning on mostly exploring as a Falconer and I will definitely planning on making it to as many of the siege events as possible. 

I didn't even really think a lack of interest from citizens would be a significant factor when I was working over government structuring. 

The mayor/leader position is the only one we know of, other posts have not been mentioned so far so it's only an assumption or a guess if you will.

ArchivedUser

@Althor Well if it is contributions to the node, that alleviates a bit of the concern. I have a strong preference to guilds only because I am used to the fact that when it comes to anything like sieges, guilds are the most reliable. It all comes down to how in depth they go into with the player government systems.

I am unsure how you would prevent someone that comes in as a citizen when it was tier 4 settlement, get put into a position of power and purposely ruins the finances making it easier for a guild coalition to come in take the node easily with little resistance. I am just not a fan of easy ways to circumvent pvp to cheaply obtain goals like securing a node. At least in Eve it was immensely difficult, as people are either turned or sleepers waiting for 2-3 years to do such feats, usually.

ArchivedUser

@Tomoyuki

The one man ruining a node as the mayor seems most likely with the military node since it sounds like it will be decided by a tournament. An election will probably come down to a member of one of the biggest guilds. 

ArchivedUser

Tomoyuki said:

I am unsure how you would prevent someone that comes in as a citizen when it was tier 4 settlement, get put into a position of power and purposely ruins the finances making it easier for a guild coalition to come in take the node easily with little resistance. I am just not a fan of easy ways to circumvent pvp to cheaply obtain goals like securing a node. At least in Eve it was immensely difficult, as people are either turned or sleepers waiting for 2-3 years to do such feats, usually.

This video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44HChA1Kkfk) has a bit of information on how this system will work. I seriously doubt that a new citizen coming in at stage 5 or 6 in the node development will be able to take control of it. Seniority will definitely be part of any consideration for leadership roles, so if you were there since stage 1 you are far more likely to become elected.

I think elections will play a larger role for Scientific nodes. Most likely something like a get together on a certain day and having a vote after a debate.

Military nodes will most likely rely on PvP points or something similar.

Economic will be based on an Oligarchy, those with the most money win.

I am not sure about Divine nodes, I haven't seen much info on that. Maybe a theocracy, motivated by some sense of duty or justice.

I will copy and paste something from this dev blog (https://www.ashesofcreation.com/node-series-part-2-metropolis/ ):

"Along with those benefits, node type also determines the type of government that a Node has. The most traditional government comes from the Scientific node, which allows the citizens to come together and choose their leaders. The Divine type, allocates its leaders through service oriented quests, quests that directly help others and their Node, quests that prove their faith and dedication to the node. Economic type governments are run by an Elite Oligarchy. These positions can be bought and sold, so if you want to rule an Economic type Node, make sure your coin purse is heavier than your competition. Finally, the Militaristic type is rule by combat. Whoever are the last ones standing have proven their worth to lead, by iron fist and sharpened blade. These warriors can only be removed from office by citizens who are better and more bloodthirsty than they."

PS here is a link to another thread on elections and politics: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/37986/elections-and-politics#latest

ArchivedUser

@Memmi Well thank you for the information. Really my only gripe is just the blog post, as it sounds like musings on how such a feature would work. I understand it is to get the game hyped and etc, but I take player run organizations a bit more seriously. That free hold burning down or your home is just modus operandi in Eve and so I know the damage of malicious or incompetent leaders are capable of.

The irony is that I wouldn't own property period and just want to be destructive like that, but I understand there are others that enjoy such features and shouldn't be taken lightly for their sake.

ArchivedUser

I'm with you Althor. Perhaps leadership would be different depending on the node (scientific, trade, militaristic). Militaristic being like a King with informal Barons. Tradeskill might be a guild leader (and that guild runs the show). A scientific node might be a combine or collective. Perhaps the designers are vague on purpose. They want to see how we players 'rise to the occasion,' organize, and how inventive we are. After all - Isn't that what leaders are supposed to do? Thumbs up for asking this question and getting players thinking.

ArchivedUser

Well vagueness wouldn't be a good thing with this type of mechanic. Players will more than likely abuse a system that doesn't have a clear framework, so I obsoletely agree that we need to discuss how this will play out. Personally, I wouldn't want someone making the wrong kind of decisions with regard to a node that I have spent my time and energy helping to grow.

Here is another relevant blog released by devs that has some answers to the questions raised here: https://www.ashesofcreation.com/city-hall/

We know that different nodes will elect their leaders differently based on node type (militaristic, etc.). We also know that those who were there at the beginning will have the most power. We know that those running the nodes will shape the development of those nodes, which will also affect gameplay for everyone in that node (trade, etc.).

I think guilds will definitely play a big role in shaping how these nodes will be run. I think this will essentially lead to large guilds dominating most node types (except maybe scientific). Military and Oligarchy will be run by a select group of players, who will dominate those nodes without having to rely on any kind of input from other players. So if you have a large guild (a few hundred members), I can very easily imagine that guild dominating those two node types, maybe combining with another large guild or two. We still have no information about Divine nodes... I am also not surprised that a few guilds on this website are clearly picking up on this theme and are trying to recruit as many players as possible to reach the current cap of 300 players per guild. So how many players does each node hold? I don't necessarily have any issues with this, except that minority opinion won't count for much in those scenarios. But that is why we have the Scientific nodes, right? Participation will be key in that scenario. We will have to make sure that enough players are interested in the node's future to actually participate in elections and have some responsibility for the choices they make...

Here is a nice little quote from that dev diary to think about: "The City Hall allows you to reward your citizens or attract even more. You can line the streets with festivities, giving your citizens buffs to things like experience gain, crafting, unique services, among many other benefits. The leaders in City Hall can also generate quests for everyone to enjoy. The rewards depend on Node level, Node type and the sort of improvements they’ve made. A Node isn’t just done when it becomes populated, a whole new game begins for players with a planning-oriented mind. Overcoming variables like location, warring guilds, and dynamic resource spawns aren’t the end of it, you also have to compete with competent leaders of another Node! The leaders of Nodes have to take the good with the bad, and are constantly battling within City Hall to make sure the citizens within the Node’s walls are safe, productive and happy."

 

I presented a cynical position here and I hope that everyone will benefit from a player-run node, but this is definitely something we have to figure out before things are set in stone.