Movement in AoC

ArchivedUser

So, I’m starting this because I don’t know if ashes is going to adopt any of this at all in the development of the game but, if you’re going to make a world 30X the size of Skyrim, then likely implement horses as a way of fixing how boring it’d be to travel across the map, why not implement gameplay mechanics that resolve the issue, and still make it fun or immersive.

First off, I’m going to speak assuming you’re not going to do anything super innovative with the workdbuilding and design of the map since it’s going to be so large, but games are soorly lacking in vertical map designs.

Why run forward when you can run through a cave that leads up into a plateau, which can reach new heights. Or travel across certain like mountain climbing mini games or using picks and climbing glaciers. That’s how you explore, swinging from vine to vine or doing parkour challenges to reach new locations.

What will players be doing 90% of the time? Tuning, getting around. So why not make it fun. Everquest Next had a great idea to implement  movement. Basically as you ran around the map you’d do things like slide down steeper terrain, maybe jump over a log, leap across a ledge. Monster Hunter Workd did the same. Tearing a way open through branches, crawling under narrow spaces, there’s other stuff you can do like brushing web away, cutting down thick brush, exc.

Even implement something hardcore, thought provoking gameplay like, only being able to get certain terrain with the right equipment on. Equip picks to even initiate climbing the wall, a slashing weapon to cut away thick brush, a torch to burn away webs, an axe to chop away thick branches. Discover an area by implementing a grappling hook and having a player say “hmm, why happens if I grapple onto that ledge there? And wallah, a player may have discovered something unique. A path that leads to a secret dungeon, a small area, maybe something that could start a regional event. 

instead of running in one direction, fast traveling, or getting in a horse. Those are lazy fixes the industry have used to address lack of design. If anything, add interesting ways to get around the map quicker that feel natural. Grab a canoe and paddle down some rapids on your way to another location.

Those are just things that have bothered me some time with games, running is boring. Make it fun. Exploring is boring, make that fun too.If just personally want to see other animations besides “running and jumping” in the game.

ArchivedUser

From Livestream 2018-1-8

What kind of things would we be able to climb in the game since the days of EverQuest I've always wanted to climb the trees and just wait. Either to wait to escape a predator, or wait for something to come to us?

• 34:56
• Basically he wants to be a drop bear. Climbing is problematic in a lot of different ways. Especially when it’s open like that. It's something we would love to do. It would add a lot of variety to your gameplay, but the difficulty in implementing a system that is so broad that it's something we really have to take a look at. There is definitely going to be scenarios in which climbing is present. Whether or not it will be as freeform as, I just choose any tree I want, or any cliff I want, and I can just climb it probably not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evmT25JzY1k

ArchivedUser

I didn’t mean climbing like “oh, let me climb any vertical surface” i meant, have there be specific rock faces that are climable, or specific glacier faces that are climable. Climbing a glacier, left click right click to climb, little events like bracing for occasional snow fall or avoiding severe exc. 

youd just have to make it so youd aproach a wall, get your animator to work on animations and climb those walls. After you’ve created it it’s the same for every wall you could climb in the game.

Also, I personally don’t like the idea that you can click an ability and the ability will do the work for you. “Oh, there might be a trap. Leme click my EZ button to do the work of finding it for me.”
And that’s how it seems to look at least to me. I’d prefer a more creative aproach to passing through obstacles.

ArchivedUser

I gotta say in my brief readover one thing I really liked and stood out... When you were talking about vertical travel. I've always liked the idea of having to choose where I go. Like if I wanted to get to the top of cliff A I would have to ascend through cavern B. 

The map in ashes is supposedly huge and to not make use of open world dungeons or the like to traverse certain areas would be disappointing. 

ArchivedUser

@UnknownSystemError Hopefully a entire Open-World of Climbing would be implemented in a later patch after Launch ? But i'd much prefer it being before launch, maybe during Beta Phase 1 & Beta Phase 2

EDIT: Any form of object: Tree, Boulder, mountain, etc....

ArchivedUser

@RiverBird
You got to remember that the Devs making Ashes of Creation have experience Making EverQuest Next and many others

• https://www.ashesofcreation.com/the-team/

Think it's safe to assume that everything will be fine.So far, it seems as though Intrepid is " Setting the Stage " before they go into detail ; before they elaborate on their fundmental designs, they got to establish other systems/ other " things " first - before they add other Mechanics such as Climbing

More or less, definitely share your Enthusiasm & Concerns - one of my first posts in fact

• https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/10066/further-emphasis-on-well-established-concepts#latest

ArchivedUser

What I think I meant by movement and by “utility” and maneuverability are two different things. 

The utility and manuverability abilities from certain classes is that of, using magic to raise earth from the ground to use as a jumping platform to get across a narrow body of water. Or whatever abilities the developers have thought of for other classes, abilities that will solve certain issues, blowing a gust of air to disperse poison gas exc.

What I was talking about, was if my character is running through a forest. There’s a log on the floor, my character does a little hop over it, or if there’s a steep slope, my character would slide down it. Movement that isn’t activated but simple happens as you travel across terrain. Instead of just having a running animation for the entirety of the games life. I think the new Monster Hunter World displays a lot of what I’m talking about.

One moment you could be running, sliding, climbing, crawling, tearing your way through overgrown branches, exc.

ArchivedUser

@Eragale Yep, would be nice. They basically have never come out against an idea unless it was "vision" breaking. It all comes down to the amount of time it takes to code, implement, and test to make sure it doesn't break the game or become a big, shiny, red "I win" button. Could they make one guy on the team slave over how to implement it map-wide for the next two years? Sure. Are they going to waste those development hours on a very small niche thing they already are implementing in a limited fashion? No. They know they are never going to fulfill every wishlist and "I wanna see this..." request made by people over the internet, but they also know that when you tell people "No" they freak the fuck out, because that just isn't done with todays entitled gaming groups. So they take the appeasement route. "Sure, we understand you and your concerns, one day we might get around to that, but right now we need to focus on this to give you even better things, so hang in there Tiger, and we will get to you down the line maybe."

ArchivedUser

you don't know anything about development and how long this would take to implement...do you think they'd have to implement this map wide? or go in and do this through the whole map? no lol, da hell xD

They just have to animate doing hops, climbing, crawling, then make specific assets that will trigger those movements and do the animation. Then it's literally not that much work for the environmental design artists to slap those assets in and copy/pasta some code in. they use note pads with code saved on there to copy and paste lol. 

If they didn't add this it'd be because "Heh, we can work on something else I guess...: and not do it. If runescape can do it so can other games.

ArchivedUser

Not a lot of work O' great development guru? Take a look at Assassins Creed series and how many years it took them to work out the kinks in their games. Which still has places you can't climb. They are totally different beasts in that they are designed to be one-shot dropbear games, and it has taken them years and millions of dollars to work on that aspect of a single player rpg, not even an MMO. The main point is that it isn't a core mechanic they are focused on, they answered the question, and just because you may not like the answer doesn't mean it is going to change.

ArchivedUser

I think they could develop 1 species of tree in particular that you could climb up and look around. They could then place the tree randomly around as well. But making all trees climbable would be too big a thing to implement.

ArchivedUser

Mobrechael said:

I think they could develop 1 species of tree in particular that you could climb up and look around. They could then place the tree randomly around as well. But making all trees climbable would be too big a thing to implement.

I’m not usually one to comment on how good or bad someone’s else’s idea is.

But that’s just dumb 😕