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The PAX East game play review you do not want to read. And I didn't want to make....
I have been following this game for some time, as an ex-Archage player and Stephen's history in Archage has made this the #1 game on my radar. I have not backed it on kick starter or given the company any cash yet, I have been burned in the past, so never again till I get to try a game.
So I tried the game on Sunday, I played the PvP match because well... PvP is my main focus in any game I play so it was not because the PvE line was 2hr long.
Game play for me needs to be tight, as in "When you hit a button, the action on the screen happens". Take WoW as an example, it has a 1.5 global cool-down on abilities and can make it feel clunky sometimes, but they also have abilities that are not on the GCD like Rogue kick, or mage counter-spell that are fast and happen when you hit the button. So this was my major concern... and to tell the truth it was far worst than anything I could have ever imagined.
Playing this game was like a "Bumper-boat" ride https://youtu.be/cbMDlSqXYeY?t=3m12s
When you hold right mouse button and move right/left to turn your toon... it is like driving a bumper boat... You turn slowly after the action was finished by your hand/mouse. WASD were fine, when i pressed them my toon moved as i had expected, all be it slower than expected.
To make matters even worst, I would be holding W down moving to a teammate to heal him, and when ever i selected him with the mouse... I would stop dead in my tracks. To start moving again I needed to stop pressing any of the WASD keys, then press them again.
I played the Cleric, I want to be able to run in one direction quickly turn to the right and strafe to the left (never changing direction but now strafing and not looking in the direction I am moving). This was not really doable... Again turning with the mouse while holding the right button was so sluggish it was unbearable.
Casting spells was much the same, hitting a button could never be a reaction to something, it was more like starting a cast animation.
I know people are going to say things like "It's too early to judge, we are not even in alpha" but I view it this way. They are making the game backwards. They should be making the mechanics and game play first, then build the assets around the game play.
Take a look at the early stages of development for a game like Overwatch https://youtu.be/JcsLQFXzpr4?t=50s
Nothing is even built, but movement, physics, and mechanics are the first building block. And even though it is almost nothing more than moving blocks... They move and react the way you would expect... Ashes is all good looking unreal assets, with no mechanics.
I write all this with a heavy heart... I had hopes for this game. I am almost starting to think this might be a vaporware con...
TLDR: Gameplay super sluggish, "It's pre-alpha" is not a valid excuse, they are making the game backwards. Mechanics, physics, game-play should be first, textures and polish later.
Comments
People should know better by now to not trust any company on their word. But people are naive and easy to manipulate. I'm not saying Intrepid is doing this. I'm saying we don't know if they are doing this. It's good to be careful.
Good review.
Art and mechanics can be developed in parallel. You wouldn't have your artists wait for your devs to create a whole game before having them start art.
So, I am not worried about combat. I have faith in the team. It hasn't even been a year since Kickstarter ended. I didn't expect great game play at this point. I I think people hyped themselves up too much. I expect that by the time Alpha 1 comes around combat will look and feel much different as Alpha 1 is suppose to focus on PVP.
This is a PvP game, even the node system is in place to foster conflict. If the combat is bad, what do you have?
People were hoping for "action combat" like Black desert, you can't even turn quickly.... How could you even dream of action combat when you can't turn with the mouse movements.
This is a PVX game. I will judge combat when they work on it.
I am not sure why people thought combat would be like Black Desert's as Steven said as far back as Kickstarter that it wouldn't be. People's hopes will be dashed.
imagion a movie paning to one side slowly... then when you stop moving it kinda kept going for a sec. WASD did not act like this, only turning.
A part of me wants to think they limited fast turning because it might have put a burden on FPS with all the high end textures and stuff. But that is not a game I want to play.
Running, jumping in the air and turning 180 degrees before you land is not something that could be done in this game.
With a bunch of devs from EQ and H1Z1, I'm not really concerned that the team will not be able to bring more finesse to combat... when they're ready to focus on that.
When it comes to Overwatch we can lay down some facts. By the time Blizzard (Yes, it was before they became Activision blizzard) decided to make Overwatch, they had already, for years, developed what became Overwatch with it's assets and engine - Titan. It was to be their new style MMO which had been under development atleast since 2007, when they admitted to having new secret mmo under development. That video is from 2013. That may be in early stages of Overwatch, but it is result of Titan development that had been under way already atleast, known to public that is, since 2007. That is not a good comparison in the slightest. And also by the time they began overwatch, they had been well integrated with Activision and had access to experience and who knows how much actual tools and existing assets from long line of COD development.
You can read all of this from Blizzards own blogs if you want, if you have some doubts.
Point of the matter is that if you try to compare game development, you are already in thin ice, because everyone developes games in different pace and with different processes. What is true, is that what you see in ashes of creations, is a lot of placeholders and truly very early in development. What you see in that video of Overwatch is assets and engine that had been under development for over 6 years.
Judging game at this point really is not going to say much. I can't personally judge it. I can judge the action and combat, likewise, but I am quite positive this is not end and final version of it. That would be absurd and these people are not so oblivious as to ignore it.
Additionally, when it comes to steps of making game. Yes. You write the concept, you design the game and then you start making the hard code of how it functions. For sure, animation, visuals and how finite detail of combat functions, are not the first and most important steps to take. It is the technology and numbers that matter. The action and consequence of numbers and if code, hit detection and other stuff might work, or not. You can polish everything other later.
I might have been used to it but looking at this video i'm not seeing character turn speed being gated by anything
Lastly, how does something like this make you think the game is vaporware? Does this really seem like the kind of thing that would be hard to change?
Thank you for this feedback, and thanks for stopping by the booth!
Yours is the only feedback that I have heard of like this, so it is possible that your client was bugged in some way.
I wish that you had grabbed me or a designer while you were at the booth, some of the mice had a scroller on them that turned down the sensitivity to 0 which may have contributed to your particular camera issues. With regards to combat, as I said on the stream, and elsewhere, we have spent very little time on combat. Most of the development time from my designers and engineers have been on the node system and backend networking. The control schema, UI and combat systems will be worked on during our sprint to Alpha 1, and we will be continuing to update our community on the progress.
Also, there are no unreal assets in the game at this time, except for some speedtree assets for some of the above ground foliage/grass.
Have a great day!
I am wrong about vapor ware, you have to understand i am so disapointed right now I and venting. I had some very high hopes for this game.
Fair criticism. I backed AoC with $400 and agree with you that combat is the greatest concern. Let's be honest though they are using Unreal Engine as the foundation of the project and pretty graphics get backers. A lot of other kickstarters might be cool ideas but visually they look pretty bad, which gives the impression that the game is "low budget." AoC has much better looking graphics which makes the game look, visually, like it is something more. With all that said, Steven is good at what he's good at and he has marketed the game well.(As someone interested in the game this should be a selling point to you. It speaks well of longevity.) With the presentation he's made so far he has been able to get donors and investors. Now they are working to develop that foundational combat/mechanics you are talking about.
In my mind, what disappointed you at PAX is more than fair. (I played the game at the PAX West and felt similar disappointment in the combat.) However I also feel you are not looking at the big picture here. I think some perspective on your part would allow you to see that they definitely did sell the game on pretty graphics which is allowing them to be at the stage of development where they are. Give them time to put some of that money to good use. Release isn't around the corner and they are already making significant improvements. (Just compare the footage of this PAX to last. Characters glide less when moving, etc.)
Note: It's also not entirely fair to compare Intrepid to Blizzard who already had all the cash it needed to start a project. Intrepid did the right thing by selling the vision in a way that it would garner support. Now they are in the process of making that vision a reality. Something that will take time.
I'm not going to say your opinions are wrong at all, just premature.
I think suggesting vaporware due to pre-apha gameplay was rough. Comparing one teams development process to another also seems somewhat unfair. We all do things differently and yet we all get things done so forcing IS into a "This MMO did this so you should" box seems like bad form. Imo. I know "if it's not broke don't fix it," but this line of thinking slows progress.
I also think following up the original, mostly well spoken, critique with downplaying comments like "game is 2 year away from being released" was bad form. Are we not also allowed our opinions..? If something is not finished or widely tested is it wrong to wait for those stages?
Then calling some potential investors naive and easy to manipulate was also bad form. I am neither and I invested. I have not invested into any games as of yet that have gone vaporware or failed. Perhaps I haven't been burned because I have a better sense of judgement than some others when it comes to money.
That's not fair either, we all make mistakes and get burned. Projecting that crappy outlook onto others with positive outlooks, imo, seems like (again) bad form.
All in all, @ekeefe41, thank you for the review.
That's not me being a fanboy... that's just the reality of it.
The GCD only prevents just blowing off everything at the same time.
Also, they're making the game backwards? I'm no game developer but to me it seems an MMORPG is slightly more complex than an arena shooter. You say they should be working on the mechanics first - it's my understanding they have been working on numerous systems that keep the world running from the beginning. Those are all mechanics too, not just player movement.
Keep your hat on and be patient. When I played the Archage alpha it put me off the game. When I played the release I loved it.
Heated forums are always a better option then a dead forums.
I am sure the dev team is aware of how important the pace of combat will be, especially since @GMSteven played ArcheAge. I think most of the PVP community is really concerned that the feel of casting spells and using combat abilities comes off as very fluid. I can't honestly see them messing this up.
Also I'd love to hear from more people who were at the demo to see if they had the same experience as well. I think everyone's feedback on the combat controls is important.
This is a perfect example of this. Combat has yet to be focused and build BUT a lot of people are complaining about it. The bright side is that they have a lot of backers and support even in pre-alpha stage.
I hope that people who think combat is gonna suck come back in 2019 and take a look at it, I`ll be here too and if I dont like it i will say it, but not when combat is not done.