@Noaani I agree that we are unlikely to see large amounts of territorial disputes the way that we had in BDO. That said, I still feel that this system infringes upon the ability itself to PK more than it should. I would be satisfied with the degree of punishment if there were another way to remove Corruption. ↓ ↓ ↓ It wouldn't have to be easy - what I liked from BDO is that despite how often you had to compete with others for various resources, I, at least, didn't see a lot of PKing or griefing for the sake of just killing. If you had an itch to kill, you'd be guaranteed several hours of grinding out mobs to brings yourself back into good graces with the game.
What I feel BDO did well was its profession and PKing system. The combat was also fantastic. But that wasn't enough for me to be happy with the game. It lacked the spirit of an MMO, and felt like I was grinding myself against a wall trying to progress. Overall, I'm glad that AoC isn't going to be like BDO.
Maybe, rather than adding another way to remove Corruption, Intrepid could make it that your first kill of the day gives you a separate, similar debuff that decays over time (Naturally, this is for kills of similarly leveled played. PKing lowbies who didn't attack you should absolutely result in death). If the goal of the game is to prohibit excessive PKing, this system does so. Despite my grievances with just manipulating incentives and risks, assuming that abuse is appropriately regulated and limited, a system like this can definitely work.
Funny enough, I have no intention to PK or do anything like that. But as the Corruption penalty stands, I believe it overly punishes the people who don't regularly PK, but for some reason or another, decide to or need to do so. Death shouldn't be the result of one kill. I don't want to have to call up a friend and say, "Hey, can you kill me so I don't lose my stuff?"
Despite the fact that Intrepid can probably get their system to work, I still like being able to voice my opinion about looking into other options as well. This doesn't mean that I believe their current method will fail, rather, that we should always look for improvements.
PVP: Would killing other corrupted players be a good way to reduce your own corruption?
PVE: Corruption could be lowered by what people actually hate to do in terms of PVE. One thing could be grinding mobs (maybe only certain ones, that drop no loot and that are hard to kill such as to pose a real threat). Another thing could be doing some frustrating puzzles. The last I can think of might be leaving your character in an "ice prison" for some time... which virtually means not being able to play it for X hours/days after you put him in.
@Crusader2010 Yeah, we discussed the potential for killing Corrupted players to reduce Corruption a bit. It would certainly give hardcore PvPers something to do. Intrepid would also have to limit repeated kills to prevent abuse, as they will most likely do with deaths.
I like the idea of the prison thing. Turn your character in to the local authorities and sit in jail for a while. Interesting concept, but it does allow people to basically just AFK after killing people and get away scot-free. Definitely a workable idea, though.
@Sikuba Maybe add some other downsides, like your other account characters gaining only half experience And/or there is a chance a piece of your gear is going to get destroyed when you leave the prison.
It has to be something harsh though, since it circumvents the risk of dropping gear and resources.
@MADE It's a design choice. I for one am eager to see how it'll turn out. The basis is definitely good, as there aren't going to be any real means of discriminating a player (i.e. not playing with him) other than maybe his skill/social behavior. And that should be enough. Couple that with the fact that gear and levels shouldn't be that important overall (hopefully) and we might see something nice for a change. I definitely do not want another fwcking WoW clone.
I mean i just cant let that go because of how much it doesnt make sense at least for me. Having no gear score? Then what are the players working for in the end.... What are we gathering for if everyone will be on equal footing......
Its not about discriminating.... Its about measuring someones value to the team... If you are wearing trashy gear then i have all the right in the world to not play with you or not use you for the dungeon until you put in as much work as the other players....This just seems a poor excuse to not play the game at a high level while still reaping the rewards.
Plus levels shouldn't make a difference? Are we all just going to hold hands and sing kumbaya then? If gear shouldnt make the difference, if levels should not make the difference, if you cant open world PvP without getting your account banned from playing pretty much, then what in the hell are we going to do in this game lmao.....
Gear and levels are like the core fundamentals of any MMO, some have those 2 things a different name but the premise is usually the same, the more you play, the more your progress and the point is that your hard work pays of with either levels or gear.
Its pretty much the only things that can measure your value in game besides currency, which again usually revolves around purchasing the best gear in the game.
@Sikuba Maybe add some other downsides, like your other account characters gaining only half experience And/or there is a chance a piece of your gear is going to get destroyed when you leave the prison.
It has to be something harsh though, since it circumvents the risk of dropping gear and resources.
Im not sure why there has to be something "harsh" at all... if you think the player has done enough open world PvP, then simply have a system that diverts him to another activity, either by suggestion or heavy enforcement, which can be "hey you killed 10 people in 1 hour, you must gain x amount of PvE experience or complete x dungeon or wait 3 hours before you can PvP again). Those are all options but they arent harsh penalties, games do it all the time like this and it makes sense why...
I dont want to see any punishments where a player has to die multiple times to get rid of his corruption, as well as losing any gear.... That is just unjustified for the simple fact of killing some players who dont lose gear, but only a tad of their resources, those 2 actions are not on equal footing.
Like many of us have said before, if you dont want PvP in certain zones, or dont want too much of it, there are tons of smarter ways to do it without just straight up hurting the other player almost from preventing him from playing your game properly.
@NTBRO I was talking about corruption. Normal PvPing should not incur any. Killing players just for the sake of it should. I know, the current corruption system doesn't cover everything (but let's suppose it will at some point).
About measuring someone else's value to the team: why do you need to know gear levels and such and not how well they play? Maybe that guy geared in whites does a lot more things in a battle than your super 40-man geared "hunter" that AFK-autoshots.
Secondly, anything that will be in place to allow for player discrimination WILL cause discrimination. If you know someone is a good player, casual, but good, you will play with him. If you know he's a moron that AFKs all the time and such, you won't invite him in the party. You don't need gear to show you that.
The other issue is that any kind of system like this will lead to cookie cutter builds, ineffective classes, etc etc etc... basically a lot of the game becoming useless, even for a 1% difference. And I bet it's not going to be only that since we'll have 64 classes.
This is the stupid human nature - you should not know some things in order to be able to have fun. Then you'll come to realize that the 1% didn't make a difference in your raid, but rather the poor execution of the fight.
People should really stop hiding behind the need to compensate their incompetence with 1% more DPS.
Lastly, would you take a guy geared in whites in a dungeon or one that is AFK for 90% of the battles but has the best gear available? I know whom I'd take. And most likely he's going to be a much better player and human being overall too, meaning that we might become friends and have much more fun together than when playing with a 12 year-old prick.
There will be certain events and situations that will remove flagging such as caravans and guild wars/conflict. We also do not know the full extent of corruption. Killing one person who is not fighting back may not be a huge deal as you can get rid of that corruption easily. I have a feeling that it will be similar to Lineage 2. The more people you pk without them fighting back the harder it is to clear your name. It will most likely be in place to stop you from killing people over and over again.
@Noaani At first they will probably keep an eye on those things. Later on, it might become too cumbersome / not cost effective to do. As any market or society, it's going to regulate itself after a while. How it does it should be the question.
What I mean is that right now the corruption system isn't enough to prevent exploits and such, without another "controller" - a system that regulates the need for the PK/PvP interactions. Corruption is the effect, resources are the cause (maybe?), and we need something in-between. One idea was the resource tagging by players. There probably are many more.
With this in mind, pulling those levers isn't going to accomplish much without further changes. They'd be modifying the effect while keeping the cause fixed. This just nudges the player base to regulate itself towards different extremes or similar, without fixing the actual flaws (i.e. that the final regulatory point is going to be near an extreme).
Also, how should the devs inform the player base about the changes? should they do it at all? I mean, changing some chance from 7% to 4% might not be visible for several weeks (and most likely there will be few that care to compute it and even fewer that will read/understand those numbers). By that time the devs could've changed the values again... and so on.
In my experience, MMO players in games with PvP don't need to be given a reason to attack each other. There are enough players whose default thought when seeing another player out in the game is "kill him and take his stuff" that no other system is required.
Altering any of the levers Intrepid have to use simply gives these players a reason to think twice - "kill him and take his stuff - oh but corruption gain is quite high right now and he doesn't appear to be doing anything that would get in my way".
As for how Intrepid would communicate these things to players - a simple mention in the path notes is enough - "slightly decreased the percentage drop of items due to corruption" is all players need to be told.
First of all, I seriously doubt there will be any kind of gear score in AoC. Steven has said no to systems in the past based on those systems being used in other games to segregate players, and I would think gear score would fit right in there.
Wel if he said that, then it only shows he's incompetence. Gearscore isn't soemthign that purposely implemented in games. It's here cause the fact that this game is based on gears.
There maybe no dedicated score for it, they can even hide itemlevels on purpose, but then the players just use something else to measure gear, like how much str a player has, so you only change it's name, but the thrash wil be still separated from the rest...
You can't tell what a players strength is if you can't inspect them, can you.
Gear score is something that is only ever implemented to let other players know what quality of gear a given character has on - there literally is no other reason to have it displayed. It is one of the stupidest and most destructive things I have seen implemented in MMO's over the last 20 years (along with dungeon finders).
Since every post of yours is negative - whether about how inept Intrepid are or how much you aren't going to like AoC - I have to ask, why are you even here?
@Noaani I agree that we are unlikely to see large amounts of territorial disputes the way that we had in BDO. That said, I still feel that this system infringes upon the ability itself to PK more than it should. I would be satisfied with the degree of punishment if there were another way to remove Corruption. ↓ ↓ ↓ It wouldn't have to be easy - what I liked from BDO is that despite how often you had to compete with others for various resources, I, at least, didn't see a lot of PKing or griefing for the sake of just killing. If you had an itch to kill, you'd be guaranteed several hours of grinding out mobs to brings yourself back into good graces with the game.
What I feel BDO did well was its profession and PKing system. The combat was also fantastic. But that wasn't enough for me to be happy with the game. It lacked the spirit of an MMO, and felt like I was grinding myself against a wall trying to progress. Overall, I'm glad that AoC isn't going to be like BDO.
Maybe, rather than adding another way to remove Corruption, Intrepid could make it that your first kill of the day gives you a separate, similar debuff that decays over time (Naturally, this is for kills of similarly leveled played. PKing lowbies who didn't attack you should absolutely result in death). If the goal of the game is to prohibit excessive PKing, this system does so. Despite my grievances with just manipulating incentives and risks, assuming that abuse is appropriately regulated and limited, a system like this can definitely work.
Funny enough, I have no intention to PK or do anything like that. But as the Corruption penalty stands, I believe it overly punishes the people who don't regularly PK, but for some reason or another, decide to or need to do so. Death shouldn't be the result of one kill. I don't want to have to call up a friend and say, "Hey, can you kill me so I don't lose my stuff?"
Despite the fact that Intrepid can probably get their system to work, I still like being able to voice my opinion about looking into other options as well. This doesn't mean that I believe their current method will fail, rather, that we should always look for improvements.
I'd personally be all for adding another means to get rid of corruption, as long as it was active rather than passive, time consuming in a similar manner to BDO, if a player PK's while attempting to get rid of corruption the penalty is much more severe, and -ideally - it assists non-PvP players.
May be a corruption reduction for assisting in defending a caravan (of a player not from your node, guild or alliance). Make it so this corruption is only awarded when the caravan successfully reaches it's destination - if it fails, you gain no corruption decrease.
This is still exploitable - as any system is. However, like any system, if the devs keep an eye on things, make sure people aren't coordinating things, it could be a worthwhile system to add.
I like the idea of prison as well, though I don't know if we would see one.
Archeage had a prison (and player jury), and while it was always amusing to see known PK'ers get several hours prison time, all it means was several hours of afk.
Now, if they develop a "hard labor" prison where a player has to move several hundred rocks (that slow them right down to a crawl) to random spots around the prison yard - negating the ability for them to afk through the whole thing - I could get behind that, especially if they are cut off from any chat channels.
@Noaani From what I've seen, the various towns can elect mayors and the likes. A prison or judge/jury system isn't too far-fetched and idea, with that in mind. That would be a really cool feature to see. The forced labor could be basic gathering/crafting that would generate income for the town system.
There's so much potential for cool stuff to be added - which is basically why I'm dissatisfied with the Corruption system by itself.
I guess the devs have raised some pretty high expectations. But looking at their timeline, as efficient and hard-working as they have shown themselves to be, they can only do so much.
You can't tell what a players strength is if you can't inspect them, can you.
Gear score is something that is only ever implemented to let other players know what quality of gear a given character has on - there literally is no other reason to have it displayed. It is one of the stupidest and most destructive things I have seen implemented in MMO's over the last 20 years (along with dungeon finders).
Since every post of yours is negative - whether about how inept Intrepid are or how much you aren't going to like AoC - I have to ask, why are you even here?
Dungeon Finders can be useful to find parties for low-level dungeons. But I agree that they devalue end-game PvE immensely. I feel like that's the last thing we want in AoC, so on the unlikely chance the devs do implement a Dungeon Finder, it needs to only work for dungeons below a certain level, and definitely not for end-game dungeons.
Although, from my understanding, leveling is going to be a fairly slow process. This makes it much more likely to find people at a similar level to you, as opposed to an entire community of max-level players. In that case, a Dungeon Finder would be entirely irrelevant.
Also, don't be too surprised by negativity towards the game. It's been many years since we've had any developer make a truly good MMO. It's only natural that people are a bit cynical.
You can't tell what a players strength is if you can't inspect them, can you.
Gear score is something that is only ever implemented to let other players know what quality of gear a given character has on - there literally is no other reason to have it displayed. It is one of the stupidest and most destructive things I have seen implemented in MMO's over the last 20 years (along with dungeon finders).
Since every post of yours is negative - whether about how inept Intrepid are or how much you aren't going to like AoC - I have to ask, why are you even here?
Dungeon Finders can be useful to find parties for low-level dungeons. But I agree that they devalue end-game PvE immensely. I feel like that's the last thing we want in AoC, so on the unlikely chance the devs do implement a Dungeon Finder, it needs to only work for dungeons below a certain level, and definitely not for end-game dungeons.
Although, from my understanding, leveling is going to be a fairly slow process. This makes it much more likely to find people at a similar level to you, as opposed to an entire community of max-level players. In that case, a Dungeon Finder would be entirely irrelevant.
Also, don't be too surprised by negativity towards the game. It's been many years since we've had any developer make a truly good MMO. It's only natural that people are a bit cynical.
- Sikuba
The big problem with a dungeon finder in AoC is the lack of fast travel.
A far better system for finding groups is to have a noticeboard in towns where players can post that they are looking for people for a nearby dungeon.
By all accounts, this is what Intrepid are planning.
There's so much potential for cool stuff to be added - which is basically why I'm dissatisfied with the Corruption system by itself.
Remember, as an MMO, AoC will never be 'finished'.
Corruption as a system is a great foundation. It is in itself flexible and variable, yet gives developers room to build on top of it in the future if they feel it is needed.
There's so much potential for cool stuff to be added - which is basically why I'm dissatisfied with the Corruption system by itself.
Remember, as an MMO, AoC will never be 'finished'.
Corruption as a system is a great foundation. It is in itself flexible and variable, yet gives developers room to build on top of it in the future if they feel it is needed.
Expansions are a thing.
Well yeah, but just because you can always change it, doesn't mean you can't change it sooner rather than later..
The exploits should be dealt with preemptively, but once the first Alpha is complete, the devs should know more or less what the system lacks or is doing poorly. Then they can start to think of ways to fix it. Feedback is still valuable, even if change doesn't need to come immediately.
Maybe, rather than adding another way to remove Corruption, Intrepid could make it that your first kill of the day gives you a separate, similar debuff
Just one kill per day?
What difference would that make...?
What this game needs is the way for equal levels to PvP for resources without being punished.
Gathering resources needs to flag you purple, no more no less. And corruption can remain for ganking lowbies.
If punishment will remain, then death of green player MUST result in equal death penalty (including chance to break gear and everything else qual) as death of red player.
Only like that, green players will be incentivized to go purple, equally as players being incentivized not to go red.
PvP community is eagerly following to see what comes out of this, as THIS will "make or break" the game for us. It will decide do we play AoC or something else.
None of the rest of the content maters (nodes, sieges, awesome lore,.. nothing) if this is not made right, and if it will just punish open world fights for resources.
That's all there is to say about this. We await to see what Intrepid makes with this.
Maybe, rather than adding another way to remove Corruption, Intrepid could make it that your first kill of the day gives you a separate, similar debuff
Just one kill per day?
What difference would that make...?
What this game needs is the way for equal levels to PvP for resources without being punished.
Gathering resources needs to flag you purple, no more no less. And corruption can remain for ganking lowbies.
If punishment will remain, then death of green player MUST result in equal death penalty (including chance to break gear and everything else qual) as death of red player.
Only like that, green players will be incentivized to go purple, equally as players being incentivized not to go red.
PvP community is eagerly following to see what comes out of this, as THIS will "make or break" the game for us. It will decide do we play AoC or something else.
None of the rest of the content maters (nodes, sieges, awesome lore,.. nothing) if this is not made right, and if it will just punish open world fights for resources.
That's all there is to say about this. We await to see what Intrepid makes with this.
The problem is that you're asking for too much. I wouldn't be against a system with the ability to freely PvP for resources, but there are a lot of people who would. Intrepid's stance involves building various ways to PvP freely in the world without interfering with people who are just looking to grind or farm. There will be incentive and plenty of combat.
Outside of what is built into the game, there are some harsh punishments for PKing. My idea that you mentioned is to help the average person, who isn't regularly PKing, go about his day without acquiring Corruption, a condition that guarantees you a costly death.
Their approach is balanced and fair, even if I disagree with the methods. You can't ask for too much, coming from either side of the argument. Right now, the situation appears to slightly favors non-PvPers, but that can change easily. Just stick with it. It's too complicated to allow either side to have their way.
@NTBRO I was talking about corruption. Normal PvPing should not incur any. Killing players just for the sake of it should. I know, the current corruption system doesn't cover everything (but let's suppose it will at some point).
About measuring someone else's value to the team: why do you need to know gear levels and such and not how well they play? Maybe that guy geared in whites does a lot more things in a battle than your super 40-man geared "hunter" that AFK-autoshots.
Secondly, anything that will be in place to allow for player discrimination WILL cause discrimination. If you know someone is a good player, casual, but good, you will play with him. If you know he's a moron that AFKs all the time and such, you won't invite him in the party. You don't need gear to show you that.
The other issue is that any kind of system like this will lead to cookie cutter builds, ineffective classes, etc etc etc... basically a lot of the game becoming useless, even for a 1% difference. And I bet it's not going to be only that since we'll have 64 classes.
This is the stupid human nature - you should not know some things in order to be able to have fun. Then you'll come to realize that the 1% didn't make a difference in your raid, but rather the poor execution of the fight.
People should really stop hiding behind the need to compensate their incompetence with 1% more DPS.
Lastly, would you take a guy geared in whites in a dungeon or one that is AFK for 90% of the battles but has the best gear available? I know whom I'd take. And most likely he's going to be a much better player and human being overall too, meaning that we might become friends and have much more fun together than when playing with a 12 year-old prick.
God your entire post is just random babble filled with random and exaggerated assumptions.... You keep saying, "well if i have noob gear and a guy has rare gear but is afk 99%" um... why would he be afk? And obviously why would i pick him to play with me.. none of that even makes any sense.... Gear isnt the only decider, and please stop with this "discrimination stuff" whats next, you gona bring up racism if the character is dark skinned?
If im going to tackle end game content, then yes, i would like to know the gear that people are wearing, its only common sense, i dont want to bring a guy that is half naked that claims hes a "dps" role but cant dish out proper dps so the entire team gets wiped or it takes a really long time to get thru the dungeon....This is like MMO"s 101, have you never ran a dungeon before? This is basic, and does not need to have its wheel re-invented, it works just fine and as intended.
Your entire post is just filled with "discrimination" towards geared players whom you keep saying 99% they are afk, or "pricks" for what ever reason, you seem to be emotionally broken to even play this game if thats how it effects it, you will be denied in any mmo at least couple of times from groups even if there was no gear power present.
Regardless, we obv disagree so just leave it at that, back on topic.
Intrepid's stance involves building various ways to PvP freely in the world without interfering with people who are just looking to grind or farm.
The thing is, Intrepid is marketing this game as "PvX". People that "just grind or farm" SHOULD be interfeared with. Specially since resources are limited and do not just respawn in those spots like in other MMOs.
My point is either make the system balanced and allow players to fight for resources in a resource limited game, without being punished, or do not market the game as PvX.
Your entire post is just filled with "discrimination" towards geared
players whom you keep saying 99% they are afk, or "pricks" for what ever
reason, you seem to be emotionally broken to even play this game if
thats how it effects it, you will be denied in any mmo at least couple
of times from groups even if there was no gear power present.
I could say the same about your posts regarding the need for a visible gear score and such. Do you hate the fact that you won't be able to show your e-peen to others and brag how great you are? Too bad. I hope the devs will stick to their plans.
We can just wait and see how the corruption system works upon implementation. There have been some ideas presented in this thread that could be great changes to the system, if the system does not work as intended. Currently to me it seems in most situations there is incentive to fight back due to the lessened penalty of dying while purple, once again though if the system is being exploited or the punishment is too great for going red then changes can be made. Having opinions on the current understanding of the system is great, sharing them and discussing their merits is part of what makes this developing game's community stronger.
PvX means HAVING TO do both PvE and PvP in a game.
- In AoC one "has to" do PvE in order to even obtain his gear, let alone anything else. - In AoC one "can avoid" PvP most of the time due to ridiculous punishments imposed by attacking those that "do not want to" PvP
Ergo. AoC is NOT a PvX game.
It is a PvE with an optional PvP. It's just being wrongfully marketed as PvX, for the reasons we do not need to get into now.
If you would want to call a game PvX, while having an optional PvP, then PvE would need to be optional as well.
So you would need to be able to obtain you level, gear and everything else, purely through PvP (like you can through PvE). This is currently not the case.
PvX means HAVING TO do both PvE and PvP in a game.
- In AoC one "has to" do PvE in order to even obtain his gear, let alone anything else. - In AoC one "can avoid" PvP most of the time due to ridiculous punishments imposed by attacking those that "do not want to" PvP
Ergo. AoC is NOT a PvX game.
It is a PvE with an optional PvP. It's just being wrongfully marketed as PvX, for the reasons we do not need to get into now.
If I am out harvesting and you attack me, you force me in to PvP. I am in a PvP situation now whether I like it or not.
Thus, by your own definition, AoC is a PvX game.
Add to that caravans that are effectively compulsory.
Add to that guild wars that any guild could declare on my guild at any time.
Add to that sieges which any group of players could declare on my node at any time.
These three things effectively force PvP on players.
Intrepid's stance involves building various ways to PvP freely in the world without interfering with people who are just looking to grind or farm.
The thing is, Intrepid is marketing this game as "PvX". People that "just grind or farm" SHOULD be interfeared with. Specially since resources are limited and do not just respawn in those spots like in other MMOs.
My point is either make the system balanced and allow players to fight for resources in a resource limited game, without being punished, or do not market the game as PvX.
PvX just means that there is the potential for both PvP and PvE. You can still PK in the game, they're just discouraging it outside of fighting over the world objectives that allow it.
If it's resources that you're concerned about, I'd assume that caravans give you plenty, depending on whether you win them or not.
Also, your idea of balanced is swayed by your opinion. Intrepid is "balancing" two communities - those who want world PvP, an those who don't. Allowing world PvP with no consequences is not finding a middle ground. You should be able to see that, otherwise any further discussion is moot. They want to bring the entire MMO community together, which is incredibly difficult considering how people have so many conflicting desires.
You appear to have a very "my way or the highway" cavalier attitude. I might be incorrect, but I doubt it. No one should be left happy, once the system is complete. But everyone should be satisfied, to some extent. Right now, as I said, it favors Anti-World-PvP people. Hopefully, once it is altered and workable, everyone will have a general feeling of "meh" towards it.
Comments
I agree that we are unlikely to see large amounts of territorial disputes the way that we had in BDO. That said, I still feel that this system infringes upon the ability itself to PK more than it should. I would be satisfied with the degree of punishment if there were another way to remove Corruption.
↓ ↓ ↓
It wouldn't have to be easy - what I liked from BDO is that despite how often you had to compete with others for various resources, I, at least, didn't see a lot of PKing or griefing for the sake of just killing. If you had an itch to kill, you'd be guaranteed several hours of grinding out mobs to brings yourself back into good graces with the game.
What I feel BDO did well was its profession and PKing system. The combat was also fantastic. But that wasn't enough for me to be happy with the game. It lacked the spirit of an MMO, and felt like I was grinding myself against a wall trying to progress. Overall, I'm glad that AoC isn't going to be like BDO.
Maybe, rather than adding another way to remove Corruption, Intrepid could make it that your first kill of the day gives you a separate, similar debuff that decays over time (Naturally, this is for kills of similarly leveled played. PKing lowbies who didn't attack you should absolutely result in death). If the goal of the game is to prohibit excessive PKing, this system does so. Despite my grievances with just manipulating incentives and risks, assuming that abuse is appropriately regulated and limited, a system like this can definitely work.
Funny enough, I have no intention to PK or do anything like that. But as the Corruption penalty stands, I believe it overly punishes the people who don't regularly PK, but for some reason or another, decide to or need to do so. Death shouldn't be the result of one kill. I don't want to have to call up a friend and say, "Hey, can you kill me so I don't lose my stuff?"
Despite the fact that Intrepid can probably get their system to work, I still like being able to voice my opinion about looking into other options as well. This doesn't mean that I believe their current method will fail, rather, that we should always look for improvements.
PVE: Corruption could be lowered by what people actually hate to do in terms of PVE. One thing could be grinding mobs (maybe only certain ones, that drop no loot and that are hard to kill such as to pose a real threat). Another thing could be doing some frustrating puzzles. The last I can think of might be leaving your character in an "ice prison" for some time... which virtually means not being able to play it for X hours/days after you put him in.
Yeah, we discussed the potential for killing Corrupted players to reduce Corruption a bit. It would certainly give hardcore PvPers something to do. Intrepid would also have to limit repeated kills to prevent abuse, as they will most likely do with deaths.
I like the idea of the prison thing. Turn your character in to the local authorities and sit in jail for a while. Interesting concept, but it does allow people to basically just AFK after killing people and get away scot-free. Definitely a workable idea, though.
It has to be something harsh though, since it circumvents the risk of dropping gear and resources.
Its not about discriminating.... Its about measuring someones value to the team... If you are wearing trashy gear then i have all the right in the world to not play with you or not use you for the dungeon until you put in as much work as the other players....This just seems a poor excuse to not play the game at a high level while still reaping the rewards.
Plus levels shouldn't make a difference? Are we all just going to hold hands and sing kumbaya then? If gear shouldnt make the difference, if levels should not make the difference, if you cant open world PvP without getting your account banned from playing pretty much, then what in the hell are we going to do in this game lmao.....
Gear and levels are like the core fundamentals of any MMO, some have those 2 things a different name but the premise is usually the same, the more you play, the more your progress and the point is that your hard work pays of with either levels or gear.
Its pretty much the only things that can measure your value in game besides currency, which again usually revolves around purchasing the best gear in the game.
I dont want to see any punishments where a player has to die multiple times to get rid of his corruption, as well as losing any gear.... That is just unjustified for the simple fact of killing some players who dont lose gear, but only a tad of their resources, those 2 actions are not on equal footing.
Like many of us have said before, if you dont want PvP in certain zones, or dont want too much of it, there are tons of smarter ways to do it without just straight up hurting the other player almost from preventing him from playing your game properly.
About measuring someone else's value to the team: why do you need to know gear levels and such and not how well they play? Maybe that guy geared in whites does a lot more things in a battle than your super 40-man geared "hunter" that AFK-autoshots.
Secondly, anything that will be in place to allow for player discrimination WILL cause discrimination. If you know someone is a good player, casual, but good, you will play with him. If you know he's a moron that AFKs all the time and such, you won't invite him in the party. You don't need gear to show you that.
The other issue is that any kind of system like this will lead to cookie cutter builds, ineffective classes, etc etc etc... basically a lot of the game becoming useless, even for a 1% difference. And I bet it's not going to be only that since we'll have 64 classes.
This is the stupid human nature - you should not know some things in order to be able to have fun. Then you'll come to realize that the 1% didn't make a difference in your raid, but rather the poor execution of the fight.
People should really stop hiding behind the need to compensate their incompetence with 1% more DPS.
Lastly, would you take a guy geared in whites in a dungeon or one that is AFK for 90% of the battles but has the best gear available? I know whom I'd take. And most likely he's going to be a much better player and human being overall too, meaning that we might become friends and have much more fun together than when playing with a 12 year-old prick.
Altering any of the levers Intrepid have to use simply gives these players a reason to think twice - "kill him and take his stuff - oh but corruption gain is quite high right now and he doesn't appear to be doing anything that would get in my way".
As for how Intrepid would communicate these things to players - a simple mention in the path notes is enough - "slightly decreased the percentage drop of items due to corruption" is all players need to be told.
Gear score is something that is only ever implemented to let other players know what quality of gear a given character has on - there literally is no other reason to have it displayed. It is one of the stupidest and most destructive things I have seen implemented in MMO's over the last 20 years (along with dungeon finders).
Since every post of yours is negative - whether about how inept Intrepid are or how much you aren't going to like AoC - I have to ask, why are you even here?
May be a corruption reduction for assisting in defending a caravan (of a player not from your node, guild or alliance). Make it so this corruption is only awarded when the caravan successfully reaches it's destination - if it fails, you gain no corruption decrease.
This is still exploitable - as any system is. However, like any system, if the devs keep an eye on things, make sure people aren't coordinating things, it could be a worthwhile system to add.
I like the idea of prison as well, though I don't know if we would see one.
Archeage had a prison (and player jury), and while it was always amusing to see known PK'ers get several hours prison time, all it means was several hours of afk.
Now, if they develop a "hard labor" prison where a player has to move several hundred rocks (that slow them right down to a crawl) to random spots around the prison yard - negating the ability for them to afk through the whole thing - I could get behind that, especially if they are cut off from any chat channels.
From what I've seen, the various towns can elect mayors and the likes. A prison or judge/jury system isn't too far-fetched and idea, with that in mind. That would be a really cool feature to see. The forced labor could be basic gathering/crafting that would generate income for the town system.
There's so much potential for cool stuff to be added - which is basically why I'm dissatisfied with the Corruption system by itself.
I guess the devs have raised some pretty high expectations. But looking at their timeline, as efficient and hard-working as they have shown themselves to be, they can only do so much.
Although, from my understanding, leveling is going to be a fairly slow process. This makes it much more likely to find people at a similar level to you, as opposed to an entire community of max-level players. In that case, a Dungeon Finder would be entirely irrelevant.
Also, don't be too surprised by negativity towards the game. It's been many years since we've had any developer make a truly good MMO. It's only natural that people are a bit cynical.
- Sikuba
A far better system for finding groups is to have a noticeboard in towns where players can post that they are looking for people for a nearby dungeon.
By all accounts, this is what Intrepid are planning.
Corruption as a system is a great foundation. It is in itself flexible and variable, yet gives developers room to build on top of it in the future if they feel it is needed.
Expansions are a thing.
The exploits should be dealt with preemptively, but once the first Alpha is complete, the devs should know more or less what the system lacks or is doing poorly. Then they can start to think of ways to fix it. Feedback is still valuable, even if change doesn't need to come immediately.
- Sikuba
Just one kill per day?
What difference would that make...?
What this game needs is the way for equal levels to PvP for resources without being punished.
Gathering resources needs to flag you purple, no more no less. And corruption can remain for ganking lowbies.
If punishment will remain, then death of green player MUST result in equal death penalty (including chance to break gear and everything else qual) as death of red player.
Only like that, green players will be incentivized to go purple, equally as players being incentivized not to go red.
PvP community is eagerly following to see what comes out of this, as THIS will "make or break" the game for us. It will decide do we play AoC or something else.
None of the rest of the content maters (nodes, sieges, awesome lore,.. nothing) if this is not made right, and if it will just punish open world fights for resources.
That's all there is to say about this. We await to see what Intrepid makes with this.
(Just checked, other threads are being correctly updated, besides this one).
Is this a new tricky tool for mods to silently "sink down" a certain thread?
Outside of what is built into the game, there are some harsh punishments for PKing. My idea that you mentioned is to help the average person, who isn't regularly PKing, go about his day without acquiring Corruption, a condition that guarantees you a costly death.
Their approach is balanced and fair, even if I disagree with the methods. You can't ask for too much, coming from either side of the argument. Right now, the situation appears to slightly favors non-PvPers, but that can change easily. Just stick with it. It's too complicated to allow either side to have their way.
- Sikuba
If im going to tackle end game content, then yes, i would like to know the gear that people are wearing, its only common sense, i dont want to bring a guy that is half naked that claims hes a "dps" role but cant dish out proper dps so the entire team gets wiped or it takes a really long time to get thru the dungeon....This is like MMO"s 101, have you never ran a dungeon before? This is basic, and does not need to have its wheel re-invented, it works just fine and as intended.
Your entire post is just filled with "discrimination" towards geared players whom you keep saying 99% they are afk, or "pricks" for what ever reason, you seem to be emotionally broken to even play this game if thats how it effects it, you will be denied in any mmo at least couple of times from groups even if there was no gear power present.
Regardless, we obv disagree so just leave it at that, back on topic.
The thing is, Intrepid is marketing this game as "PvX". People that "just grind or farm" SHOULD be interfeared with. Specially since resources are limited and do not just respawn in those spots like in other MMOs.
My point is either make the system balanced and allow players to fight for resources in a resource limited game, without being punished, or do not market the game as PvX.
I could say the same about your posts regarding the need for a visible gear score and such. Do you hate the fact that you won't be able to show your e-peen to others and brag how great you are? Too bad. I hope the devs will stick to their plans.
Sure, back on topic
Not happening.
No that would actually make it PvX.
Currently it isn't PvX, atm. it's a PvE game with PvP minigames.
Like WoW PvE servers were. PvE, ability to flag yourself up, and PvP minigames.
PvP is a game that could force PvP on players almost in any situation. AoC is already treading damn close to that line.
- In AoC one "has to" do PvE in order to even obtain his gear, let alone anything else.
- In AoC one "can avoid" PvP most of the time due to ridiculous punishments imposed by attacking those that "do not want to" PvP
Ergo. AoC is NOT a PvX game.
It is a PvE with an optional PvP. It's just being wrongfully marketed as PvX, for the reasons we do not need to get into now.
So you would need to be able to obtain you level, gear and everything else, purely through PvP (like you can through PvE). This is currently not the case.
Thus, by your own definition, AoC is a PvX game.
Add to that caravans that are effectively compulsory.
Add to that guild wars that any guild could declare on my guild at any time.
Add to that sieges which any group of players could declare on my node at any time.
These three things effectively force PvP on players.
If it's resources that you're concerned about, I'd assume that caravans give you plenty, depending on whether you win them or not.
Also, your idea of balanced is swayed by your opinion. Intrepid is "balancing" two communities - those who want world PvP, an those who don't. Allowing world PvP with no consequences is not finding a middle ground. You should be able to see that, otherwise any further discussion is moot. They want to bring the entire MMO community together, which is incredibly difficult considering how people have so many conflicting desires.
You appear to have a very "my way or the highway" cavalier attitude. I might be incorrect, but I doubt it. No one should be left happy, once the system is complete. But everyone should be satisfied, to some extent. Right now, as I said, it favors Anti-World-PvP people. Hopefully, once it is altered and workable, everyone will have a general feeling of "meh" towards it.