2nd server for free to play players

i know the model have been decided but i hope i can make some suggestion
because everyone don't like f2p players to play with them,master race stuff i guess so i hope the devoloper can run a 2nd server which for f2p players and u can sell time like apex system in archeage,that server like u guys say will have p2w bullshit but the devoloper can have more money to invest to the game,i know lots of cash whale play game just to show off and bully farmers
the 2nd server i hope will be the life boat for my guild because the game we're playing ( archage ) is dying and the new update 3.5 will surely kill it,as guild master i hope this game can be a life boat where my guild and my friends can enjoy together,some of us in USA but some from south east asia which mean some will actuaclly pay for the game while the others can not
i hope the devoloper can give my idea a shot,the money come from this 2nd server will help the game run smooth and invest for new stuff
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Comments

  • So, you don't want to pay the monthly sub, but you do want to pay for items in the cash shop? And it seems to me, that you mean that's going to give the devs more money to work with? That will mean, that you'll spend more money on a F2P game, instead of at monthly subbed game, which you and your guildmates don't have the money for?

    I must have misunderstood something, cus' that doesn't make any sense!

    Best regards
    <em>"master race"
  • welp,i dun have much money to spend on game but i can spend gold to buy credits from players who pay,does it count as i spend money ?? the game should have some option for players who can't spend real life money on games but willing to grind ingame
    btw the money a guy spend on f2p game pretty damn sure much much higher then a p2p game,i know the guy top server spend around 1-2 grand per week just to regrade weapons,armors :|
  • IMO It would be like shooting yourself in the foot if you have both a F2P and a P2P server, it just doesnt add up. If you get more or less the same benefits from both servers, except a bit of cosmetic or whatever, then it just doesnt add up. Why would anyone pay then?

    And please don't bring the masterrace BS into this, its not like people shame f2p, they just prefer P2P apparently (IMO masterrace is an idiotic term, but thats another discussion ;) ). I'd imagine everyone would rather have F2P, but servers have to run somehow, so it can't be F2P forever (true F2P, no cash shop or anything).

    [quote quote=3901]i know the guy top server spend around 1-2 grand per week just to regrade weapons,armors <img alt="?" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2.2.1/svg/1f610.svg" />
    [/quote]
    Even though the devs get more money, this is exactly what they don't want to happen :/ Thats just the start of a dying game, if everyone can't compete on even grounds then its basicly doomed.

    Please for the love of god keep out the masterrace BS, its not like we have the torches out or anything, people have just stated they're opinion.
  • [quote quote=3901]welp,i dun have much money to spend on game but i can spend gold to buy credits from players who pay,does it count as i spend money ?? the game should have some option for players who can’t spend real life money on games but willing to grind ingame
    btw the money a guy spend on f2p game pretty damn sure much much higher then a p2p game,i know the guy top server spend around 1-2 grand per week just to regrade weapons,armors <img alt="?" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2.2.1/svg/1f610.svg" />

    [/quote]

    No, I guess it doesn't. But selling ingame currency for real life currency, is not legal in many games. And most Cash-shops has "Bind on Pickup" items, so ppl can't just buy it for you right from the Cash-shop and transfer them to you. And that would destroy a games economic system. That's not what AoC is aiming for. They want a healthy player economy and no P2W Cash-shop.

    IMHO, I don't really understand why ppl always say it's too expensive to pay for a game that has monthly subscription. I'm not here to tell you what to do with your money, but isn't it just a question of prioritising? Like, if you're hyped for a game, then you start saving up to be able to buy it when it releases and maybe even be able to pay the first few months of sub. After that you cut down the fast food, cancel some of the streaming apps or cancel that gym access you never really use anyways. Its all about priorities! And let's say the average gamer playes 14 hours a week, that's 2 hours a day, that's a lot of entertainment for 10-15$ a month. What does a movie ticket cost today? 15-20$? For 2 hours of entertainment? You see my point?

    @Julemanden : "Masterrace", is that really a thing? Never heard of it before. No need to answer here. We can take it in the tavern on Discord someday ?
  • [quote quote=3912]cancel that gym access you never really use anyways. Its all about priorities!
    [/quote]
    Haha someone got their priorities straight ;)

    Instead of getting worked up about prices just refer like 9 people and then you get your monthly fee covered ;)
  • I have feeling talking with u guys will lead to no where,i'm a worker from south east asia and my salary is 300 bux per month which barely enough for me to live,maybe u guys live in a rich condition and blah blah about gym and junk food and shit but there are people out there have passion on game too but their finacial condition can't allow them to pay.
    About the master race,it's my bad,not reach that lvl yet.
    I make this topic to hope we can discuss and find out some solution for the game so everyone can enjoy,u say the devoloper don't want the p2w happen ? Seriously dude ? The p2w is when the devoloper want money and care no shit about you,they are the source of p2w.
    If u can't help plz leave dun leave commend here,if u are adult plz act like one
  • Being able to trade real money for ingame currency, which APEX is , is, by (my) definition p2w.
    You get an advantage over others by putting in real money in the form of ingame currency, it is p2w.

    There are different forms of definition regarding p2w, some say if you can buy endgame equipment, others say if you can buy better equipment then what is available in the game.
    For me any advantage you can simply buy with money is on route to p2w

    Aside from that, why would people that pay their sub go to the f2p server? The only difference is, they can trade their money for ingame currency. Or what do you propose for the regular payer to sustain the f2p players?
    Because that won't happen as far as my memory serves. It was decided against having a whalehunting culture with any progression advantage through money.
  • Just sell apex as a item ingame,sold by npc only and it give a certain time to play like 7d,u really can make a cash shop without make it p2w,just sell decoration and skin only like dota2,non of skin give stats or shit,only decor unless u want it slowly turn into p2w
    The only solution to prevent ppl exchange real life money into game money is all items from cash shop is bound and no gift,beside should limit the amount of gold u can trade perday to eliminate bots/gold sellers
  • So why would anyone pay the sub if we can buy it for ingame money? Because you still want to be able to play, and not just work to make enough money for the next sub. Balancing that isn't easy either. To me that doesn't sound fun or like a solution that benefits the developer, it sounds like something that will be abused and hurt them in the end. Making us suffer too.

    I don't see how this benefits the developer at all, you get to play for free while using server ressources.
    Edit: Sorry if I might sound harsh, but I write it like that because of your initial argument.
    [quote quote=3899]the devoloper can run a 2nd server which for f2p players and u can sell time like apex system in archeage,that server like u guys say will have p2w bullshit but the devoloper can have more money to invest to the game[/quote]
    With that gone, I just don't see any benefit you have proposed.
  • Atleast this fomula will be tested on the 2nd server if they agree,push ppl to farm the money they need for they next 7d is not harmful it push the economy in game growth and it benifit both who pay to play and those who farm to play,i'm a carebear player and i won't mind spend times on my farm whole day and go grind boss once or twice per week with my guild.
    If you think the game need sub to survive then plz take a look at dota 2 and LOL,theh both sell skin of heroes + items and yes they still have money to host tournament.If the devoloper listen and make real good events,the game shall propers and the money you can get will sure much higher,let's say u sell different house models in cash shop and peasants f2p only have default house model,i dun think that's p2w
  • As I edited above, I am against whalehunting, it's a bad businespractice and should be gone.

    Comparing an MMO with a MOBA is nonsensical to me. Those are different requirements and frames. Tournaments pay for themselves with sponsorships from related companies like hardware/gaming. The add-revenue makes up for it.
  • @Kainblackmoon IMO you can't compare a MMO to a MOBA, the only thing a MOBA can realisticly sell are cosmetic. MMO's have so many other options to sell, get, earn than MOBAs. Its fine and all having f2p honestly I'm fine with it, but if you also have p2p (which it so far seems it will be 100%), then it just doesnt add up. Why would people play p2p if they could get more or less the same in f2p? If you don't get the same in f2p, what would be missing?

    And when I said devs don't want P2W, I meant the devs on this team, they clearly stated already that this is not their intention, its basicly the opposite. It seems like the want "spend-alot-of-time-to-win", like a bunch of time. I agree that a lot of devs don't give a sh*t about people and just make it p2w, so they make money. And even though its gonna be p2p, as far as I remember they have already said theres gonna be a ingame shop, kinda like WoW: Mounts, pets, banners etc.
  • The only non pay to win cash shop i ever seen is in moba games,sorry for not found any better example.if the game sell any items can effect gameplay/character's stat u should call it p2w.the most practical non p2w is the cash shop give u only items which only for skin/decor and dun have any stat or effect the game play
    About the tournament part,my bad and those tournament actually have sponsors too
    And yes,should put restriction on f2p players,u guys pay u guys should have profit,let's say f2p have limit on things they can do daily and only p2p players can have castle or own nodes etc,f2p players can' have house in town and won't have compensation when server have problem or half the reward on server events etc...
  • @kainblackmoon
    Hmm thats acceptable :) (for me at least), but I don't think it will be a reality :( I'd imagine the devs would stick to one model, but it's up to them. Time will tell whether or not this will become a thing :)
  • I'm preying they'll read this thread,archeage is fked tks to trino and xl,if this game can support f2p players i bet 10/10 archeage players will move to this
  • @Kainblackmoon - I was just tossing out examples. I don't see any harm in what I said. But if you find it offensive or looked down upon, then i'm sorry, that was not my intention.

    I hope you'll find what you're looking for. Though, Ashes of Creation is probably not going to be that game.
  • I come from archeage land of toxic my friend,i dun find offended easily just feel sad,i hope so much for a new good game like this to replace archeage
    Except this game so far don't have any hope yet
  • There are tons of other F2P games out there. Not every game needs to nor should be F2P. There is something to be said for the subscription model that many of us are hoping for and glad that we don't need to put up with all the cash shop bullshit that comes with F2P titles.
  • [quote quote=3949]There are tons of other F2P games out there. Not every game needs to nor should be F2P. There is something to be said for the subscription model that many of us are hoping for and glad that we don’t need to put up with all the cash shop bullshit that comes with F2P titles.

    [/quote]

    But u can already play for free. Referral system. If he has rich whale friends as he mentioned in is original post, surely he could convience him to play.
  • Just two quick things, there's no concern about the cash shop in this game being P2W. The devs are adamantly against P2W things.

    Also, I think that having a F2P server would be nice, but it doesn't really fit the characteristics of the game. Like, having a vendor that sells game time for in-game gold wouldn't really make sense, since then no one would buy actual game time with money if they can just buy it with gold. I think this game is going to be subscription based and the only way to play is with the monies irl
  • [quote quote=3953]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/2nd-server-for-free-to-play-players/page/2/#post-3949" rel="nofollow">Aggelos wrote:</a></div>
    There are tons of other F2P games out there. Not every game needs to nor should be F2P. There is something to be said for the subscription model that many of us are hoping for and glad that we don’t need to put up with all the cash shop bullshit that comes with F2P titles.

    </blockquote>
    But u can already play for free. Referral system. If he has rich whale friends as he mentioned in is original post, surely he could convience him to play.

    [/quote]

    This right here! Refer all those whales and you'll be fine. Given the rate you would only need to refer ~6 people who are subbed and your sub is paid for in referrals.
  • [quote quote=3959]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/2nd-server-for-free-to-play-players/page/2/#post-3953" rel="nofollow">DeathsProxy wrote:</a></div>
    <blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/2nd-server-for-free-to-play-players/page/2/#post-3949" rel="nofollow">Aggelos wrote:</a></div>
    There are tons of other F2P games out there. Not every game needs to nor should be F2P. There is something to be said for the subscription model that many of us are hoping for and glad that we don’t need to put up with all the cash shop bullshit that comes with F2P titles.

    </blockquote>
    But u can already play for free. Referral system. If he has rich whale friends as he mentioned in is original post, surely he could convience him to play.

    </blockquote>
    This right here! Refer all those whales and you’ll be fine. Given the rate you would only need to refer ~6 people who are subbed and your sub is paid for in referrals.

    [/quote]

    Yep, on top of whatever they're buying in the cash shop. So if you have even one whale referred, you could quite possibly have your sub paid if he's buying things in the cash shop. I feel this system is more feasible than creating an entirely different payment model using different servers. The F2P aspects mentioned are also things Intrepid wants to avoid.

    #MakeMMORPGsGreatAgain
  • No it's a waste of Development time when less that 10% of all F2P/B2P Players ever spend money on the game. If you dont want to P2P and you will not have a box cost from what I have heard then go play another crappy F2P game.
  • from what i've seen here,pretty sure i won't recommend my whales friends to play this game,rather aim them to bless onl,kinda happy when u found a place more toxic then archeage
    the f2p server idea is just a suggestion and the sub model have been decided so this thread won't make any change,u guys kinda over-react when the idea appear
    welp,my job here is done,if admin read this plz block or del this thread,thank you,there's no future here for me
  • @kainblakmoon I can readily understand your reluctance to spend 5% of your monthly income on a game (although for me it does beg the question of how you would afford a system capable of running the game if you couldn't pay for the game itself), but I think you are missing an opportunity by so readily dismissing the referral option. As designed, successfully referring 7 other players would result in your own subscription being free. If you are, as you say, looking to bring an entire guild population from AA over to AoC, our likelihood of success in this endeavor would be high. I fear you may have mistaken distaste for the perils of a f2p model leading to p2w behaviors for hostility towards yourself, which I do not believe was anyone's intent.

    Sourdoughbred
  • While many of us look at f2p as the tool of the devil, I think the OP does illustrate there might be some legitimate passionate players who can only really make it work that way... so to that end, I hope we as a community don't jump on him too hard!

    I think most of us are averse to it as haven't yet seen a free-to-play model that doesn't also lead to a cheezening of the gameplay at the least, or a pay to win scenario at the worst. I'm always open to new ideas, and maybe there's still the holy land out there somewhere.

    But this really a topic only Steven and Co. can handle with any accuracy, but we can handle it with empathy at least. :)
  • No. No. No.

    Gotta get through the paywall family, otherwise, we will prolly see a massive increase of the F2P players who tend to ruin games;; as in just play the game 24/7 and ruin the economy overall.
  • [quote quote=4014]@kainblakmoon I can readily understand your reluctance to spend 5% of your monthly income on a game (although for me it does beg the question of how you would afford a system capable of running the game if you couldn’t pay for the game itself), but I think you are missing an opportunity by so readily dismissing the referral option. As designed, successfully referring 7 other players would result in your own subscription being free. If you are, as you say, looking to bring an entire guild population from AA over to AoC, our likelihood of success in this endeavor would be high. I fear you may have mistaken distaste for the perils of a f2p model leading to p2w behaviors for hostility towards yourself, which I do not believe was anyone’s intent.

    Sourdoughbred

    [/quote]

    You will never refer enough people all the time to make your game free. There is no need for F2P. The Model is P2P and that is the end of it.
  • [quote quote=3899]i know the model have been decided but i hope i can make some suggestion
    because everyone don’t like f2p players to play with them,master race stuff i guess so i hope the devoloper can run a 2nd server which for f2p players and u can sell time like apex system in archeage,that server like u guys say will have p2w bullshit but the devoloper can have more money to invest to the game,i know lots of cash whale play game just to show off and bully farmers
    the 2nd server i hope will be the life boat for my guild because the game we’re playing ( archage ) is dying and the new update 3.5 will surely kill it,as guild master i hope this game can be a life boat where my guild and my friends can enjoy together,some of us in USA but some from south east asia which mean some will actuaclly pay for the game while the others can not
    i hope the devoloper can give my idea a shot,the money come from this 2nd server will help the game run smooth and invest for new stuff

    [/quote]
    [img=300x188]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/16/7e/0f/167e0fae820d01f544d6b5849c32036e.gif[/img]

    what you are describing is a short term cashflow, and will undoubtedly kill off the game, just has it has with everyother p2w game, including the one you're coming from, Archeage(and this is twice for AA). People want a game that they can play for years and feel truly immersed into the world. Old school mmorpgs did this and people played them for a long time, those are the games that people have longlasting fond memories with. Games where your wallet didnt mean anything, but your skill and devotion to your character did.

    if a game is truly balanced anyone who plays a certain amount of time should be able to compete with anyone else. Obviously newer people should always be behind, but the game should allow them to eventually catch up and not have to worry that they will always be behind. And a secondary server thats f2p and undoubtedly p2w DOES take away from the overall rep of the game and developer and it WOULD effect the p2p server by association.
  • [quote quote=3929]The only non pay to win cash shop i ever seen is in moba games,sorry for not found any better example.if the game sell any items can effect gameplay/character’s stat u should call it p2w.the most practical non p2w is the cash shop give u only items which only for skin/decor and dun have any stat or effect the game play
    About the tournament part,my bad and those tournament actually have sponsors too
    And yes,should put restriction on f2p players,u guys pay u guys should have profit,let’s say f2p have limit on things they can do daily and only p2p players can have castle or own nodes etc,f2p players can’ have house in town and won’t have compensation when server have problem or half the reward on server events etc…

    [/quote]

    If you put this much effort into getting referrals you could already play for free. Just sayin.
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