What is your opinion of auto-pathing, quest navigation and map markers?

ArchivedUser

I recently bought and played Bless online and in my opinion I really hate these features in a game. There is no real sense of fulfillment or achievement with something like auto-pathing where you press a button and have your character run to your quest of location. One can argue that I don't have to use it, but when something is placed in a game I want to use it (contradictory I know). The reason is simple, I want to use everything I can in a game to be ahead of the curve.

I really enjoyed The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, because every time I found the location or completed a quest I am excited and proud of myself no matter how big or small the quest is. Reading through long text or having to pay extra attention to a speaking NPC made me feel more immersed in the world and I can really appreciate the EFFORT put into game by their creators.

I know my ideal is extreme to some, but I would really like to see a game like this again. A game where the effort and creativity isn't squandered by trying to make game easier for those who have no intent of doing effort.

ArchivedUser

All three of those things suck and I don't want them in Ashes, imo.

ArchivedUser

I like them.

ArchivedUser

I'm not a fan either but i also don't want the player's character marker on the map so you have to pay attention to where you are and where you are going. Having to navigate the map by looking at landmarks and finding them in the world is a lot more interesting to me then clicking a boot icon or controlling your character by looking at his marker on a map.

ArchivedUser

I like the map markers but can't stand automation such as auto-pathing. Half the time these features don't even work properly or efficiently anyway.

ArchivedUser

Well I do like to see where I am marked on a map.  There are times I do like auto pathing, and even in BDO I didn't use it all the time. Auto pathing is nice if you have to just travel the road for a long distance and need to go AFK.  I don't mind if you mark a place on the map and you get a magic line showing you the way but doesn't auto path you.  Of course, in Ashes being AFK, you run the risk of getting attacked like you did in BDO.

ArchivedUser

I don't mind map markers. Like knowing where i need to go  

ArchivedUser

I do not want auto mapping.  Maybe an auto-walk toggle, just have to steer, so I don't have to hold the key down and maybe paid taxi services like the local speeder bikes in SWTOR.

I need quest markers but they can be generic.

Example:  My World map shows a dozen doodles of mountains in a mountain chain.  They represent mountains.  A quest marker shows a flag at the lower end representing the general location of a cave.
I still have to search, but I know where to search - imagine being that player who spends an hour looking for a quest in the wrong spot.  It makes me as a gamer very very unhappy.

I don't need laser precision telling me the number of meters to my quest, but I don't want to spend more than 5-15 minutes looking for the quest location.


Maps should be representative of the world, not a sattelite image.

Ex. An NPC can tell me "if you start at the soutern most city, there will be a winding road that head north through a forest to the foothills of very large mountains."

BUT if an NPC tells me that, and I get 3 more quests with the same amount of information and then go to bed, I will forget the details.  BUT if it is accompanied by a flag on the bottom of the mountain, I will remember roughly where I have to go and what I have to kill - that I need to go to the bottom of THAT mountain and search around for a bit.

ArchivedUser

I dislike all of them except maybe markers, but even then I don't think markers would fit the narrative of the game as we are supposed to be exploring this world we know nothing about so our maps should be empty of any sort of markers.

ArchivedUser

Exploration and adventure are important aspects of a new world game.  I like the idea of being able to mark a POI on my personal map, but I want to make the discovery myself, not to be lead by the hand.  

Following a direct route doesn't help in learning to navigate a map or to plan invasion or defense tactics.   I learned years ago that being on "auto follow" with a companion hindered my learning the lay of the land myself.  Auto follow does nothing but make a person lazy and puts the brain to sleep.  That would be the same as auto-pathing.   Also there is nothing quick about auto-pathing.  I tried in Bless also.  

I think over time most have gotten used to quest markers.myself included.  In the greater     scheme of things I believe they take away from the experience of surprise and discovery.  Unless it is considered a main story line quest that if not done messes  progression in the game I would rather stumble across quests and be surprised.

Who knows what you might find hidden behind a tree or under a rock.  Perhaps a treasure, or an entrance to a cavern.  Or maybe a new friend lost in the woods.
It can be annoying not having a direct path to a quest giver or an item, but more annoying is the fact that others could easy find or jump you on a proven route.  

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference."
         ROBERT FROST

ArchivedUser

There will be no autopathing

There are not going to be obvious quest markers such as question marks and exclamation marks telling players where to turn. 

ArchivedUser

Auto-Pathing: No.  But!  I would be okay with it if: you had already been to a city/village, there was established roads (like the path a caravan would take), and you essentially paid for a ride... but only if you were still able to be killed and whatnot on the journey.

Quest navigation:  No.  I also hope they put in many hidden quests, too!

Map Markers:  Depends.  I hope that players are given maps to maintain.  Or copies of maps.  If a quest has a discern-able location, and I have a map of the region (probably purchasing it from a map maker, a library, or self discovery - perhaps through a profession), I wouldn't mind allowing the NPC to scribble on my map, or point to a region where he thinks I'll find it - which could also be inaccurate, he has a bad memory, or is purposefully misleading you!

I also want my own personal map to maintain.  Scribble where I found certain treasure chests, or herbs, mining nodes, rock formations, points of interest... heck, even map out a region where I can find certain animals or monsters (perhaps they have a 'territory'?).  I also want to be able to buy or sell those maps from other players.

Is there a big coordinate siege coming up?  I want battle plans & maps with player scribbles on it!  It might not be live drawings for coordination, but at least it's something to start on.

ArchivedUser

I'm hoping that there will be no auto-pathing, or quest navigation, in Ashes.

But, from reading these posts, I do like the general ideas for maps that @Digital_Wind, @CylverRayne, and @Caelron, laid out.

ArchivedUser

Autopathing and quest navigations are for panties! No more to say.

ArchivedUser

Why do I feel the urge to say back in my day we had to find quest form people and then finish them.

ArchivedUser

Caelron said:

Auto-Pathing: No.  But!  I would be okay with it if: you had already been to a city/village, there was established roads (like the path a caravan would take), and you essentially paid for a ride... but only if you were still able to be killed and whatnot on the journey.

Quest navigation:  No.  I also hope they put in many hidden quests, too!

Map Markers:  Depends.  I hope that players are given maps to maintain.  Or copies of maps.  If a quest has a discern-able location, and I have a map of the region (probably purchasing it from a map maker, a library, or self discovery - perhaps through a profession), I wouldn't mind allowing the NPC to scribble on my map, or point to a region where he thinks I'll find it - which could also be inaccurate, he has a bad memory, or is purposefully misleading you!

I also want my own personal map to maintain.  Scribble where I found certain treasure chests, or herbs, mining nodes, rock formations, points of interest... heck, even map out a region where I can find certain animals or monsters (perhaps they have a 'territory'?).  I also want to be able to buy or sell those maps from other players.

Is there a big coordinate siege coming up?  I want battle plans & maps with player scribbles on it!  It might not be live drawings for coordination, but at least it's something to start on.

I really love this idea of NPC scribbling on my map as you do your quests and yourself writing locations of resources. And I was thinking now perhaps having a scribe profession could be the key to those wanting to sell the parts informational maps or locations to other players for a price. Like a unique trait to only those who have this profession, while the rest can only keep the maps to themselves. 

ArchivedUser

This how i see it ...

• If its not the hard way, then there's no way 

" hand-holding mechanics "  suck

ArchivedUser

nagash said:

Why do I feel the urge to say back in my day we had to find quest form people and then finish them.

Because back in our day we had to work for what we wanted!   

ArchivedUser

No auto-pathing, no precise quest markers but certainly large general areas being highlighted are ok.

As you explore the map it becomes YOUR map.  I think labeling locations is fine and being able to add your own pins with a mouseover note to YOUR map would be awesome.

ArchivedUser

CylverRayne said:

nagash said:

Why do I feel the urge to say back in my day we had to find quest form people and then finish them.

Because back in our day we had to work for what we wanted!   

I mean I thought the idea of no fast travel was a huge hint that people needed to explore but maybe we are just unique ^^

ArchivedUser

nagash said:

CylverRayne said:

nagash said:

Why do I feel the urge to say back in my day we had to find quest form people and then finish them.

Because back in our day we had to work for what we wanted!   

I mean I thought the idea of no fast travel was a huge hint that people needed to explore but maybe we are just unique ^^

Back in my day, perhaps yours also,  we played and explored outdoors and got lost in books and dreams.   Today it's all about immediate gratification and lazy minds.
How thrilled I was yesterday when the 20 year old called me and let me know how he re-discovered the joy of reading an actual book.  

ArchivedUser

They have said there will be no exclamation marks over quest givers, and no hand holding during quests.
Also, when you enter the world the first time, the map will be unknown. You will be able to buy maps from other players that have explored, and most probably somewhat from NPCs.
The only concrete quotes I have seen from Steven regarding auto-pathing is that it is undecided.

Personally, especially after playing Project: Gorgon for a few days, I hope quest navigation is not included. As long as there are interesting things to do and exploring is fun and rewarding, finding the quest location is a quest in itself And so much more fun when you actually succeed! 

Map markers - definately hope they're in, combined with the system described above. As others have noted, this will better give a feeling of "my map" and perhaps the stories I have experienced in different areas. 

Auto-pathing combined with quest guiding/navigation is horrible. However, without quest navigation, and in a game with no easy fast travel and large distances, auto-pathing might be a nice feature. Image a 5 minute run along a road back to town to sell stuff (you have limited inventory), or a 15 run from one town to another. Nothing immersive about doing that manually, imo. You should not be allowed to auto-path to undiscovered map locations.

ArchivedUser

In my first true RPG experience getting lost was the best part, Morrowind anyone?

ArchivedUser

I always used to spend hours in games just walking around is listen to NPCs talk to each other like I'm not even there. I love it when a game treats you as a nobody to start of with and only when you become this legend do people like/fear you. That is one of the reason why I like ashes so much. Its a living world

ArchivedUser

Azathoth said:

In my first true RPG experience getting lost was the best part, Morrowind anyone?

Indeed!  Oh, the discoveries one can make! 

ArchivedUser

A living breathing world.  Wondering along, eavesdropping on npc's conversations.  Sometimes they're just gossip.  Sometimes their  chatter lead you on to new discoveries. treasures or quests.  Sometimes they are warnings.   
Life,  nature,  holds all answers if one is willing to listen.

ArchivedUser

Azathoth said:

In my first true RPG experience getting lost was the best part, Morrowind anyone?

Not my first one, but yes i played that one too.

ArchivedUser

Caelron said:

I also want my own personal map to maintain.  Scribble where I found certain treasure chests, or herbs, mining nodes, rock formations, points of interest... heck, even map out a region where I can find certain animals or monsters (perhaps they have a 'territory'?).  I also want to be able to buy or sell those maps from other players.

It's been confirmed that those things will not be in a set locatoin - you pick a mushroom, it won't respawn in 10 minutes.  You pick an area clean, it will respawn somewhere else.

This issue I have with maintaining maps and scribbling down locations of resources and quests because you "discovered" it is simple.  Online Guides.

ArchivedUser

Digital_Wind said:

Caelron said:

I also want my own personal map to maintain.  Scribble where I found certain treasure chests, or herbs, mining nodes, rock formations, points of interest... heck, even map out a region where I can find certain animals or monsters (perhaps they have a 'territory'?).  I also want to be able to buy or sell those maps from other players.

It's been confirmed that those things will not be in a set locatoin - you pick a mushroom, it won't respawn in 10 minutes.  You pick an area clean, it will respawn somewhere else.

This issue I have with maintaining maps and scribbling down locations of resources and quests because you "discovered" it is simple.  Online Guides.

I know it's been confirmed something won't spawn in the same exact location each time - and I believe they were talking about mining specifically when it was mentioned - that still gives me a reason to know and map where I discovered things.

If I happen to be an herbalist and I find a growth of mushrooms around a particular tree, I'm going to mark it on a map and return there at a later date to see whether they've regrown or not.

Or perhaps the mushrooms only grow on the shady side of specific types of trees?  Well... I'm going to map out where I find those trees, and then I'm going to go looking for those types of trees when I need more mushrooms.  Better yet, if I had a detailed map of the forest with every type of tree, rock/sediment, creature habitat's or territories that I all mapped out myself?  You bet I'd be the best gatherer around, and I wouldn't want to share my secrets! ...or get rich off selling them.

With player-owned and player-edited maps, you can mark anything and everything you want!

If I'm a guild's battle planner, and I want to absolutely humiliate the opponent - well, my battle plans might look a lot like I drew a happy face.  And I'm going to distribute that to the guild, and then post it all around to show how much of a laugh it was to conquer that city.

ArchivedUser

Online guides ruin games, imo.

ArchivedUser

I simply agree.

I would like less filler quests that just make me run around afk from one person/point to another and have more quality quests. Quests where I might have to open up a map and just stop for a minute to understand where I have to go and what I have to do there.

Secret World, in my opinion is the perfect example of it working really well. Even tho it had chaaring... chhhaaaaaaring flaws in combat and other things,

the unguided questing that took a lot of thinking at times brought in the majority of their playerbase, imo.

At the very least me and my friends ENDURED the combat so we  can do the questing.
I do mean endured, because the combat was a nightmare.