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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
On "Glamour"
ArchivedUser
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In the Live Stream June 4th, it was discussed that even with appearance gear that was different from what one would expect for certain classes, that there would be a way to know what that character is actually wearing underneath. Unless that is done with an inspection mechanic like in EQ2, I don't like the idea. Part of playing smart, especially in a game with PvP, is figuring things out and surprise. My thought is that deception is part of the "mystery" of the game, and the fun.
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Personally, I'd like to see a clientside choice, where players can check any one of the following to determine what is shown on other characters.
Show cosmetic appearance.
Show cosmetic appearance if same item type as inventory.
Show inventory items only.
I seem to remember the developers saying that they don't want an inspect character mechanic in Ashes, though I don't have the quote on hand, and it may well have been a Bacon quote. If no such mechanic exists, at the very least, players should be able to tell the armor and weapon type a potential foe is using.
In my mind, if you want to be really smart and fool people in PvP, wear actual plate armor as a mage, or be a robe wearing ranger. Just using appearance is kind of cheap in my mind.
Some people seem to get confused between a debate on a topic that we don't have much info on, and discussion about something we have solid info on.
Show cosmetic at all times
Hide cosmetic while flagged
But since there will be no inspection how do you suppose they will communicate to other players what toons are actually wearing?
People can moan on about not seeing what they are wearing as not being fair but so what? I would go more off of what their class is anyways. Because in the end who knows... maybe your heavy armor won't cut it against magical damage and surprise, that fighter is subbing mage and doing a lot of magical damage.
For example, a slinkly looking lady in cosmetic dress has a little Blue Shield under her name - Tank.
I don't personally consider it necessary in this situation.
This could also work, but is then providing even more information to your potential opponents. Yes.
To me, a toggle option to only show what equipment a player is wearing - rather than showing cosmetic slot items - only affects the people that check it. I'm all for the idea of always showing cosmetics in towns and such (outside of sieges), but outside of town I am a firm believer that I should know the equipment a character is using simply by looking at the character.
I believe it was said that Intrepid were discussing this in house as well. I'd actually be really interested to hear what their thoughts on it, what possibilities they have come up with, actually are.
Second, if they do find a broken way of building a character it just points out a flaw in the system faster and more prominently to be brought back in line.
I will ask here the same thing I asked back then, do you REALLY think, a PERSON that blames and harasses someone solely based on damage will not find a different reason like first death? It's a rotten person.. nothing else. Search for a better surrounding community.
And to point something out separately, elitists are not synonymous with those rotten people. From my personal experience, the actual theorycrafters are usually pretty nice people that are just geniunly interested in how stuff works and not to much bothered by human error.
If there is no quick inspect option, people will rely on having to link their equipment into the chat or are we going to forbid that too cause it can be used for "elitism"? Has been done before and is ,in my opinion, necesery to at least have a fighting chance.
This obviously assumes that we have challenging content and is pure speculation on my part since we want to "go back to the good old days where everything matters". If it's all just trivial busy work content, well then I guess we won't have to bother with "elitism" anyway. I would call it appropriate preparation tho.
I also like a minimal, clutter free UI but I don't think adding an extra buff next to the list of buffs and debuffs a player has suddenly makes the UI more cluttered.
If the buff is a big deal then i'd rather do nothing like Grisu recommended. I also don't think it is a big deal as there isn't much you can do to react.
You can see a mage and think, "I'm going to shred through that light armor", but you engage them only to find out the hard way they are subbing tank and are eating your attacks or subbing rogue and shred through yours. I personally don't want to be able to know an enemies sub or be able to tell at a glance what they are enchanted with.
When it comes to pvp you should be attacking because you are confident in your abilities... not because you can guarantee you will beat them no matter how good they are. Fights should be a surprise and a challenge... not a faceroll case of paper, rock, scissors like other games handle strengths and weaknesses. A main class should be able to take on any other main if they accentuate their strengths or cover their weaknesses properly. A rogue shouldn't always beat a mage. A ranger shouldn't always beat a rogue. etc.
Likewise, if I have the option to turn off cosmetic appearances, that doesn't alter your ability to express yourself.
You don't need *MY* eyes to express yourself.I don't need to know everything about the character that I am fighting. Nor should I.
However, I should know if the character I am fighting is hitting me with a hammer or with a sword, or if I am swinging my weapon against someone in plate armor or in a robe.
It shouldn't take anything more than a glance at the character I am fighting for me to be able to discern this basic information, and that is information that should be apparent before any confrontation begins.
I particularly agree with you in regards to a DPS meter - there is actually no point in not having one. Even if you ignore the fact that people like myself will put in the effort to break down the classes as best we can, AND if you exclude the value support abilities will play in Ashes, players that are big enough dicks to exclude someone due to DPS parses will be big enough dicks to exclude people because they have a "feeling" that a particular class is under-powered.
The only way to stop this kind of behavior is to have content that takes actual smarts to beat - as players that exclude players like this are inherently not smart.
A fairly important point I want to make though, Intrepid have not completely ruled out things like DPS meters and such. Opening up the API is unlikely, but integrating such things in to the game in house is a *possibility* in the future.
All they have said on the matter, when you really boil it down, is that they don't want to encourage elitist behavior with such things - which is not the same thing as saying they will never appear in the game.
Semms like we will have to try to remember the tactics of our opponents for subsequent confrontations.
Augments will probably be more important than gear. With the gear really being chosen to supplement the augments.
If someone is tossing lightning at us, we can be pretty sure they are wearing gear that enhances lightning damage. A person hurling Taunts will probably have gear that enhances Taunts.
Doesn't matter what the gear looks like.
I went out of my way to check a box to change a preference for myself, knowing full well that checking that will alter the way I see you.
I know full well that I am not viewing your character as you want me to view it - I am viewing your character as *I* want to view it.
Put another way, with check boxes, *I* would have the option to decide how *I* want to see your character, showing the information *I* place more importance on, rather than being forced to see what you place more importance on. However, *you* are able to dress *yourself* as *you* see fit, and also *you* can decide what *you* think is more important for *you* to see about me and my character.
Essentially, it comes down to a case of what is more important - players having choices in situations that affect them, or players being able to force their will on others.
To me, individual player choice literally always wins.
I should.
In terms of any situation where information is at stake, you shouldn't have control over anything I see - just as I shouldn't be able to rearrange your UI to make it harder for you to find information you want.
Something like a guild banner doesn't matter, because - even though you can design one yourself (iirc), me seeing that isn't preventing me from seeing something that could be more important to me.
Armor and weapons, however, do matter.
Edit; I'm all for things like cosmetic slots always showing in towns and cities (though the transition would be jarring), or cosmetics showing if they are the same item type (plate armor, longsword etc) as the item in the equipment slot. I'd even be up for checked options only applying to people you are able to flag on (or people that are able to flag on you), because to me, this is purely about threat assessment and if you are not a threat, then I don't need to assess you in that manner.
I'd also like to point out again that I'd only want to see this as an option, not as something that is forced on all players.
Thing is though, not knowing if someone charging you down with a sword and shield *actually* has a sword and shield equipped seems totally stupid.
That is all really basic stuff that - to me - shouldn't even be up for debate in a game where PvP plays a central role.
We might need to agree to disagree here. As i said, I enjoy customizing my characters appearance and showing it off. A toggle removes a my ability to be seen how I want to to be which cheapens it. I'd understand if there was no other way around this but we have seen other options before in the form of things like a buff. If anything, a buff with an easily recognized icon does a better job showing this information then having to get close see what they are wearing. If it's really makes things cluttered then it could be toggled.
On another note, as it's been said, i'm starting to become more unsure how much we need this and how much knowing your opponents armor type will change your fighting style. Knowing the armor and weapon type doesn't tell you how it's been augmented or the dials used which might mean a lot more then the armor type itself.
For those who didn't play AA here is what i'm talking about:
Ignoreing the text and looking in the upper left you will see the actual buffs. The shield meant that they were using a shield buff means the player is using a one-hander and shield and the buff that looks like a plate breastplate means they have a plate set equipped. There is also the red buff with the arrow that is showing you the quality of the gear equipped, not sure if it's necessary but it's an option.
Here is another example:
You will see a buff that looks like a leather chest piece(3rd from left) which means leather and the buff that has two hands holding a stick (5th from left) means they are using a two hander.
However, Ashes isn't just re-skinning weapons, it is supplying entire slots to put what ever items we want in them to act as our appearance. There is a possibility that they will place restrictions on these slots along the lines of only using the same item types - but there is the chance they won't do that, either.
The big pitfall to buffs as a way to tell what armor people have on - other than it requiring the use of the UI which I dislike - is the fact that it doesn't help much in group situations. This was an issue in Archeage in large scale PvP, which went some way to causing large scale PvP tactics to be largely irrelevant in that game outside of "mageball" and similar gimmicks.
Why should I have to target each member of a hostile group to see what they are wearing, and then have to remember that? Should it not be obvious to players what others are wearing?
We know heavy armor will be more resistant to physical damage, and we know robes and such will be more resistant to magical damage. That in itself makes the need to know what people are wearing important.
I'm all for you customizing your character how you want, and this is why I'd be up for options to be limited to the same item type. This would mean that if you are a plate user with a two-handed sword, and you want people to always see you as you want them to see you, if you limit your cosmetic items to only plate armor and two-handed swords, then all players would see you as you have intended.
With this, I may not be able to tell exactly what plate armor and two-handed sword you have, but I'd at least know that you do indeed have plate armor and a two-handed sword - enough information for me to make a somewhat accurate threat assessment.
On the buff topic, it has it's pros and cons. In large groups, you wont be able to immediately see what people are wearing just by looking at them but you also have players who you wont have direct site of because they are behind others. The buff will make it easier to tell what these players are using. The buff is also better for telling what people are wearing when they are father away. On top of this, there could be other important information you gain by targeting a character like class.