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Revisiting an old topic: The Tank (And why I don't like the name.)

I was just re-reading a post from last year about the naming of professions, particularly the name "Tank."
You can read such thread here:

Now, that that time back last year.... we didn't know for sure what profession names would be called. But now we do know that it's called "Tank" and it still bothers me.   
Here's why.

The "Tank" as it's referred to in gaming was always slang.  It's obviously comparing the role to armored war vehicles.  This use of the word only originated in the English language in the 1910s. 

All prior uses and versions of this word, or words that even sound like "tank" are thus:

The earliest record the Oxford English Dictionary currently enters for tank comes from Englishman Thomas Herbert’s 1634 chronicles of traveling in Africa and Asia: ‘Tancks or couered ponds of water, fild by the beneficiall raines, for the vse and drink of Trauellers’. Herbert’s tanks refer to pools or lakes used in India for irrigation or storing drinking-water, and many etymologists think the term was borrowed directly from Western Indian languages. Gujarati has tankh (‘underground reservoir for water’) and tanki (‘reservoir of water, small well) while Marathi has tanken (‘reservoir of water, tank’) and tanka (‘cistern’), all which might come from their parent tongue, Sanskrit, whose tadaga means ‘lake’ or ‘pool’.

Making things more complicated, though, is the Portuguese tanque, also meaning ‘reservoir’ or ‘pond’, ultimately from the Latin stagnum (‘pool’, source of stagnant and possible origin of staunch). Some think English may have separately borrowed this tanque for its modern use of tank – first attested in John Dryden’s 1690 tragedy, Don Sebastian, King of Portugal, for a ‘container for large quantities of liquid’ – with the earlier, Indian tank reinforcing its sound and sense. Others suppose that the Portuguese tanque actually supplied the Gujarati and Marathi words for ‘reservoir’ when they established colonies there starting in the 16th century.

And further clouding the waters is tankard, first referring to a large tub-like vessel (1310s) and then a large beer mug (1480s). Despite similarities in form and meaning, tankard has no apparent relation to tank; it’s borrowed from the Dutch tanckaert, also a kind of tub and of unknown origin. English has had other, unrelated tanks, too, such as a Middle English term for a ‘wild carrot’ and an Early Modern English dialectical term for a ‘blow’ or ‘knock’, likely related to the Scottish and Irish colloquial tank, or ‘defeat soundly’ in sport.


Now, I don't know about you... but that doesn't really sound like the role we're talking about here in Ashes or any mmorpg in general.  (Although at least the early modern Scottish and Irish colloquial use is almost in the ballpark.)

And what is even more strange about it to me is that every other class & class-combo has lore appropriate naming.  So why do we still have "Tank?"

If this was done intentionally by Intrepid, then I can only assume it's because it's still a placeholder for the real name for the class - one that can't be said yet because it would reveal too much of a clue to the lore of the game, which they've still been a bit tight lipped about other than the general broad strokes. 

But if that isn't the case... if "Tank" is what they've settled on.... well, then I have to admit I'm a bit disappointed at the lack of imagination... to just use modern gaming slang for an official role name instead of something lore/environment appropriate. 

But this is still Alpha!  Nothing is set in stone yet, right? 
Maybe we all can help them come up with something better!

A couple thoughts I had were:
Defender
Protector
Ironclad
Bulwark

What would you guys suggest?  Any other ideas? 

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Comments

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2018
    Well, just in case if others missed it, this is Intrepid's Reason for the bland "tank" name
    https://youtu.be/L30qJOqZUAg?t=58m56s

    EDIT: From what i can tell, the intent of the " Tank " name is to nudge the Secondary-Archetype system via ... a Tank is only a fraction/ half of the whole thing
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2018
    My recommendation ... maybe Gladiator ? I hope that Class Name haven't been used alot  xD

    i know SevenSwords did - its only one i can think of atm
  • Thanks for posting that video link to @GMSteven 's explanation, @Eragale.
    And I do get his meaning and I actually agree with logic behind it in order to foster class combos. 
    I guess the thing for me is that all those other "basic" names are still fantasy game lore applicable (immersion friendly) while "tank" is modern real world slang (immersion breaking.) It seems very weak to me, when there are many other "basic" descriptive words that wouldn't be immersion breaking that could get the job done. 



  • I don't care if they call themselves Twinkerbell Twatwaffles as long as they know their class and do their job.
  • Verra is not Earth.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2018
    Dygz said:
    Verra is not Earth.
    Can't argue with that. 
    But good or bad, it is a game we have to play on Earth.
    (And Earth slang has baggage.)
  • I vaguely recall that 'Warlord' is a tank-like class in one of the fantasy settings I am familiar with. The distinguishing features for the warlord is its ability to control the battlefield, impede enemy movement, and capture their attention. It seems to me that 'Warlord' could serve as a substitute for 'Tank'.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2018
    I perceived the terminology of Tank as a role and not the name of class/profession.
    with the reference of liquid holding having a pool of health and ability to soak up damage.

    Priests, Clerics etc are 'healers' by virtue

    and DPS 'Damage Dealers' just completes the trinity.

    Protector and Defender is what came to my mind when I saw the OP topic.



  • Totally agree with you. 

    Unless it has caterpillar treads and shoots  shells I'm not interested in a fantasy world using the term 'Tank' as a actual class description.

    That's just my opinion I'm sure people would disagree.
    I think there is a plethora of names that can be used, I do like Bulwark ! 




  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2018
    The argumentation given in the stream linked by @Eragale strikes me as rather odd.
    By that logic the Cleric should be named Healer and all other classes are just Damage Dealers cause no matter how bland you name those archetypes: "The flavor comes from the combination."

    Just like @Whocando wrote: Tank, Heal and DD are the role descriptions of the Holy Trinity, that sound just uncreative and inapt when used directly as a class/archetpye name.

    Of course in the end it doesn't matter (and I don't care thaaat much either) how you name those archetypes especially when the real class name comes from the combination with the subclass. Nonetheless why giving all archetypes proper names but the tank?

    That's just unfair and I'm sure behind his shining shield, inside that plate helmet a tear runs down Tanky McTankface's cheek due to such an injustice :(
  • The name kind of ticks me off but since I'm not planning to use it I dont let it bother me aside from the fact that in my head instead of an armored knight or something I imagine a big green vehicle. Tank feels like a role description rather than class name to me :3 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2018
    I would prefer "Paladin" get it's own class to replace "Tank," and the sub-class Tank / Cleric instead of Paladin would be "Warpriest." Paladin / Cleric would be "Imperceptor."
  • I like the name Guardian. As in guarding your team. It's simple, you know what it does, and it suits the aesthetic of the game.

    I was perturbed as well when I read tank the first time. I guess I just forgot about it and moved on. But now that you brought it back up I want it changed again.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2018
    c0ug4r said:

    Just like @Whocando wrote: Tank, Heal and DD are the role descriptions of the Holy Trinity, that sound just uncreative and inapt when used directly as a class/archetpye name.
    .....
    Nonetheless why giving all archetypes proper names but the tank?
    This is the thing that really gets under my skin about it. All the other archetypes, as you said, have proper names.  Now, they they were all gamer slang terms, then "Tank" wouldn't stand out at all.  It's just so weird that it's the lone archetype class to be that way. 

    Spun666 said:
    I like the name Guardian. As in guarding your team. It's simple, you know what it does, and it suits the aesthetic of the game.
    "Guardian" was one of the first names that popped in my head also, but since they already used it, I guess I tried to steer clear of it.   But you're right, its quite fitting as well.  I mean, with so many class combos, I get that they have to come up with a lot of names.  But there's clearly a lot of other words you can use in lieu of "tank." 

    Spun666 said:
    I was perturbed as well when I read tank the first time. I guess I just forgot about it and moved on. But now that you brought it back up I want it changed again.
    To be honest, I think it bugs me enough that I would contribute real world U.S. dollars to Intrepid if they would just change it. 
  • Cerberus

    [sur-ber-uh s]
    noun, plural Cer·ber·us·es, Cer·ber·i [sur-buh-rahy] /ˈsɜr bəˌraɪ/ for 2.
    1. Also Kerberus, Classical Mythology. a dog, usually represented as having three heads, that guarded the entrance of the infernal regions.
    2. a formidable and often surly keeper or guard.

    Seriously tho' Vigilante could be substituted for Cleric/Ranger leaving Protector to replace the over-used "tank".

  • The word 'Tank' itself is slang for an armoured fighting vehicle.

    It originated in WW1 as the first factories that could build a tank were ones that made metal tanks for holding liquids.

    What is important about the word is that as soon as you use it, people know exactly what you are talking about.  If somebody says they are playing a tank, I know they don't mean an AFV, or a big cylindrical liquid storage device.

    So trying to change it would be like trying to change the name 'PC' for a computer because it used to be the name brand of the IBM-PC.  

    But hey..I wish you luck in changing the language used by millions of gamers
  • @LiquidSky Of course everyone knows what a Tank is in regards to gaming because it's one of the roles of the Holy Trinity. Nobody wants to change that. But how many MMORPGs have you played that featured a class officially called Tank or Heal? Guess not so many to none. Because these role descriptions belong in the real world and not in the game, where they take away from immersion to a minor degree.

    Bad thing really is so many appropriate names are already occupied by the class combinations. Guardian, Warden, Protector :neutral: Of the ones mentioned here Defender seems like a plausible, descriptive class name to me.
  • LiquidSky said:
    What is important about the word is that as soon as you use it, people know exactly what you are talking about.  If somebody says they are playing a tank, I know they don't mean an AFV, or a big cylindrical liquid storage device.

    So trying to change it would be like trying to change the name 'PC' for a computer because it used to be the name brand of the IBM-PC. 
    ↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓

    c0ug4r said:
    @LiquidSky Of course everyone knows what a Tank is in regards to gaming because it's one of the roles of the Holy Trinity. Nobody wants to change that. But how many MMORPGs have you played that featured a class officially called Tank or Heal? Guess not so many to none. Because these role descriptions belong in the real world and not in the game, where they take away from immersion to a minor degree.
    ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑
    Exactly.  No one is trying to change slang.  Slang is organically grown out of cultural references.  But to use it solely for one class while care was taken to specifically not use slang for every other class is just so out of place.  It feels so lazy in terms of developing the game. :(
  • I can go either way. I am not a fan of the term Tank and if they changed it to any of the suggestions here (except maybe Paladin) I would be fine.

    I also understand the term for it, even if it's not just a place holder, it is designed to indicate exactly what it does and what the gaming community is going to call it anyways. People that play a tank will tell other players they are a tank, more than likely, even if it's called a defender. I have never heard a player they are telling me they play "...a DPS."

    As for immersion, I don't see that. In D&D along with some MMO experience very rarely have the players I have played with gone around introducing themselves as "I'm a rogue" or "I'm a fighter." That more than likely means nothing to an NPC. I think in Ashes other players will be more interested in the name of your Class/Class combo. Imo.
  • LiquidSky said:
    What is important about the word is that as soon as you use it, people know exactly what you are talking about.  If somebody says they are playing a tank, I know they don't mean an AFV, or a big cylindrical liquid storage device.

    So trying to change it would be like trying to change the name 'PC' for a computer because it used to be the name brand of the IBM-PC. 
    ↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓

    c0ug4r said:
    @LiquidSky Of course everyone knows what a Tank is in regards to gaming because it's one of the roles of the Holy Trinity. Nobody wants to change that. But how many MMORPGs have you played that featured a class officially called Tank or Heal? Guess not so many to none. Because these role descriptions belong in the real world and not in the game, where they take away from immersion to a minor degree.
    ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑
    Exactly.  No one is trying to change slang.  Slang is organically grown out of cultural references.  But to use it solely for one class while care was taken to specifically not use slang for every other class is just so out of place.  It feels so lazy in terms of developing the game. :(
    Hopefully it will be changed it feels wrong :3
  • I know it's a little annoying but I think our continued input on the topic can possibly at least get the notion looked at. While I want to give Steven and the team the time to work on more "important" things in game (seeing as it is only a name) it does break immersion in what I believe to be a game with such deep immersion. 

    We have come up with a lot of really good ideas here though and I would hate to, at the very least, not have them looked at and commented on. I will make sure to ask the question during next Q/A.

    To me naming this class "tank" is the same if not worse than naming the cleric "healer". It just doesn't feel right.
  • I don't care if they call themselves Twinkerbell Twatwaffles as long as they know their class and do their job.
    I will be alternating between 'Like' and 'LOL' until I forget about this post. Wish I could do both
  • so you have a problem with a tank being a tank but your fine with a summoner being a summoner. talk about double standard ^^In truth I'm not a fan of the name but its still not as bad as " braver of worlds" 
  • nagash said:
    so you have a problem with a tank being a tank but your fine with a summoner being a summoner. talk about double standard ^^In truth I'm not a fan of the name but its still not as bad as " braver of worlds" 
    Google never lies.


  • But if Tank is the gamer slang that's used to define what a protector/defender/tough-to-bring-down class is called, isn't it going to be referred to as that anyway? So who cares what the original, unused name is going to be..
  • Flameh0t said:
    But if Tank is the gamer slang that's used to define what a protector/defender/tough-to-bring-down class is called, isn't it going to be referred to as that anyway? So who cares what the original, unused name is going to be..
    I guess when it comes to gathering we'll just call the plants Red Flower, Blue Bush, Yellow Mushroom... I mean noone's gonna care for some fancy names anyway ;)

    It has been said several times now: It's not about a comprehensible class name, it's about immersion. Besides every other class has been given a proper name except Tankster McTankelton.
  • We should just call the class Cheap CUZ I R TANK !!!
  • Put my question in the q/a thread. 
  • c0ug4r said:
    Flameh0t said:
    But if Tank is the gamer slang that's used to define what a protector/defender/tough-to-bring-down class is called, isn't it going to be referred to as that anyway? So who cares what the original, unused name is going to be..
    I guess when it comes to gathering we'll just call the plants Red Flower, Blue Bush, Yellow Mushroom... I mean noone's gonna care for some fancy names anyway ;)

    It has been said several times now: It's not about a comprehensible class name, it's about immersion. Besides every other class has been given a proper name except Tankster McTankelton.
    That's different though, that's variety, for gathering.. Not a single specific with a set use.. If your gathering was to only gather a single herb that looks like a pink bush, I'd be more than happy to just call it pink bush picking.. But a tanky class primarily focused on taking damage will always be a tank xD
  • Flameh0t said:
    c0ug4r said:
    Flameh0t said:
    But if Tank is the gamer slang that's used to define what a protector/defender/tough-to-bring-down class is called, isn't it going to be referred to as that anyway? So who cares what the original, unused name is going to be..
    I guess when it comes to gathering we'll just call the plants Red Flower, Blue Bush, Yellow Mushroom... I mean noone's gonna care for some fancy names anyway ;)

    It has been said several times now: It's not about a comprehensible class name, it's about immersion. Besides every other class has been given a proper name except Tankster McTankelton.
    That's different though, that's variety, for gathering.. Not a single specific with a set use.. If your gathering was to only gather a single herb that looks like a pink bush, I'd be more than happy to just call it pink bush picking.. But a tanky class primarily focused on taking damage will always be a tank xD

    But that's like calling all people in the rural US south "hillbillies." Just became a lot of people do it doesn't make it right.  

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