Watched the latest combat video and just not happy

ArchivedUser

I get twitch combat is all the rage and has become the cookie cutter norm. It sad to see AoC has jump on board. First combat video showed that tactics were the driving force in combat. Not this one hit wonder fest. I get tactic style combat does not make as fun a video to watch but this trash is all over and people get tired of it fast. Its a big reason why so many MMOs have huge turn over. It just gets old. Its fun short term.

MOBA style combat should stay in MOBAs. MOBAs have made a mess of MMOs and companies are trying to cash in the cash being made, I get that. Its funny the MMOs that are still running 10-20 years later use tactic combat. Look at all the failed MMOs of late, mostly twitch. Sad. 

Go ahead, flame away but this was not a good move for the game. I said my peace.

ArchivedUser

P.S. I pledged after reading a few things, including the tab targeting combat. No way this balance of tab target players and twitch skills is going to work unless tab skills can pull off the same thing. 

ArchivedUser

Wow, if the first iteration of action combat has you twisted, just wait till you hear about My.com.

ArchivedUser

The weapon swapping mechanic has me a little worried. And how, when holstered then equipped, the weapon just seems to be pulled out of your pocket rather than a visual holstered position. 

ArchivedUser

Remeber this is just part of the combat and the main point is the game is in Alpha its not even open to player testing yet.

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

Wow, if the first iteration of action combat has you twisted, just wait till you hear about My.com.

Ya I have played 3 My.com games and so thankful I will be playing on a NA server. Never the less depending on how things go, I may goto paypal and ask for my money back as this is turning into a game I did not back. Will give it more time to see what happens. 

ArchivedUser

Judge, soon we will 

I guess its a little too early to say that the combat system is gonna be a one hit wonder thing, but i found the new combat video very refreshing. I think the Camera-Mode made it look super agile and speedy.
Though i think, once we have all classes, augmented skills etc added to the game it will still be a nice combat system. They definitely added speed to the combat, which i personally find awesome  but i dont think its gonna be or feel like a warframe copy. We will see

ArchivedUser

reaccon said:

Judge, soon we will 

I guess its a little too early to say that the combat system is gonna be a one hit wonder thing, but i found the new combat video very refreshing. I think the Camera-Mode made it look super agile and speedy.
Though i think, once we have all classes, augmented skills etc added to the game it will still be a nice combat system. They definitely added speed to the combat, which i personally find awesome  but i dont think its gonna be or feel like a warframe copy. We will see

It was made clear the people in the combat video that died were one shotted because of hit boxes. Aim in the right spot and it can happen with the right skills. Like the head shots you keep seeing in the combat video. 

The mix is tab targeting and action hybrid game, letting people train in what kind of skills they would rather play. Tab classic skills or action style skills. This makes me mad to see the action skills one shotting people as this is not how tab target skills work. As pointed out by Steven, that tab skills will random roll hits and misses. This will unbalance PvP and make tab target skills much weaker. This is a mess and wont work. If you promise tab targetting and tactic type combat and then hand over this hot mess its a sad bait and switch. 

ArchivedUser

i didnt test it yet, did you?

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

Wow, if the first iteration of action combat has you twisted, just wait till you hear about My.com.

This is a sign of a man enjoying his popcorn

ArchivedUser

A whole Alpha 1 phase of more than 6 months to test the action combat ahead and another phase after that to form the hybrid system, yet you already rant about the first (!!!) version shown?

The video was supposed to emphasize all aspects of action combat and is by no means representative for what the final combat system will look like. Stay calm, enjoy the testing phases, it's not yet time to be angry

Edit: At least not about the combat system

ArchivedUser

c0ug4r said:

A whole Alpha 1 phase of more than 6 months to test the action combat ahead and another phase after that to form the hybrid system, yet you already rant about the first (!!!) version shown?

The video was supposed to emphasize all aspects of action combat and is by no means representative for what the final combat system will look like. Stay calm, enjoy the testing phases, it's not yet time to be angry

Edit: At least not about the combat system

You do get the balance problems of action targeting with hit boxes that lets you one shot people when you aim for the head and a tab target skill that runs by random rolls on hit? Someone speced in tab targeting will be at a huge disadvantage. There is no way to balance that. Hit Boxes need to go.

ArchivedUser

UnknownSystemError said:

Wow, if the first iteration of action combat has you twisted, just wait till you hear about My.com.

What about my.com? This is the first I'm hesthearin this.

ArchivedUser

Karthos said:

What about my.com? This is the first I'm hesthearin this.

ArchivedUser

You're making too many inferences about a 3 minute video. It wasn't meant to show how quickly someone dies or how OP one way of fighting is. It's intended to show the fluidity, range of motion and positioning in the action combat system and those should be your main takeaways from the video. They showed how action combat looks from the perspective of a variety of weapon types. There is also very little clarity on how the action and tab target combat will be integrated together into one coherent system, so making judgments about one half of the combat system and implying how it will play out before the two are integrated is pointless. 

ArchivedUser

You are aware this is JUST a test of the action combat right? Like the final version of the game will not have spell launchers with different spells on them that you aim.

ArchivedUser

Pureos said:

You're making too many inferences about a 3 minute video. It wasn't meant to show how quickly someone dies or how OP one way of fighting is. It's intended to show the fluidity, range of motion and positioning in the action combat system and those should be your main takeaways from the video. They showed how action combat looks from the perspective of a variety of weapon types. There is also very little clarity on how the action and tab target combat will be integrated together into one coherent system, so making judgments about one half of the combat system and implying how it will play out before the two are integrated is pointless. 

Not just a video but also an interview with Death Proxy. Where Steven confirmed targets are made up of not one hit box but 3 hit boxes, one for the head, one for the main body and one for the legs. Aiming for the head with the right skill shows thats a 1 shot kill. With atcion skills you can aim for the box you want, but, again from Steven on the last twitch stream. Tab skills will be hit on random numbers. Would you want to use tab skills vs someone who can aim for your head?  

ArchivedUser

Nanfoodle said:

I get twitch combat is all the rage and has become the cookie cutter norm. It sad to see AoC has jump on board. First combat video showed that tactics were the driving force in combat. Not this one hit wonder fest. I get tactic style combat does not make as fun a video to watch but this trash is all over and people get tired of it fast. Its a big reason why so many MMOs have huge turn over. It just gets old. Its fun short term.

MOBA style combat should stay in MOBAs. MOBAs have made a mess of MMOs and companies are trying to cash in the cash being made, I get that. Its funny the MMOs that are still running 10-20 years later use tactic combat. Look at all the failed MMOs of late, mostly twitch. Sad. 

Go ahead, flame away but this was not a good move for the game. I said my peace.

This so called tactics u refer to can be found both in tab target and action combat. Of all the mmorpgs ive played last 15 years, action combat has another layer. And sadly tab target is a different old age, action combat makes the game look more fresh and engaging. Just look at the overwhelming positive responces. I get it though that not all can like one thing.

ArchivedUser

this is fun

ArchivedUser

@Nanfoodle define " tactical "
By " tactical " you mean ... more tab-target ?
If so, there are tactics in both Action Combat & Tab-target. To be fair though ... having Long-range constant having " Heat-Seeking " Basic-attacks is not tactical at all. 
Tab-target + Long-range = Kite-&-spank .. meaning that every attack is a guaranteed hit whereas close-range has to hustle 

You'll be* abusing close-range because Normal Attack is guaranteed to hit 

• which will look something like this https://youtu.be/juFLKF97xWI?t=7m33s 
• via moving back away, yet attacking - no aim whatsoever. The Tab-targeting Systems does everything for you
• I'll just let this vid speak for itself https://youtu.be/8RGzzS1jGJc?t=1m2s ( ends at 2:49 )

However, there are some cases where Tab-target is needed to perfectly convey the ability ( via following a target ) ... but long-range shouldn't have  constant heat-seeking abilities for nearly everything though. Having abilities constantly following its target ... sounds like something that* should be temporary and NOT permanently default ... otherwise ... i guarantee you - Combat will feel very similar like every other Tab-target MMO out there. So ( please ) be considerate

Tab-target is ... in a nutshell ... is very 2D
Action-Combat, in a nutshell, is 3D 
more can be done with Action-Combat ( as evident of the spoiler below )

@Nanfoodle I think your biggest concern is if Action-Combat gets out-of-control - your comment of ... " twitch reflexes " seems to confirm this. And i can understand that - i (kinda) agree with you. And here's what i think

...  Action-Combat should be " tamed "  ; while i agree with you, i still want some action-combat to be present, the pacing needs to be just right via it can't be too fast, but not too slow either,  no templates / telegraphs .. its makes it far too predictable & boring , etc ... { insert other things here }  

I believe that there are ( some sort of ) tactics involved with action-combat ... but the way in how its been implemented really doesn't showcase it well-enough. 

There are different types of Action-Combat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIKIoOM5gJI&t=103s (watch the whole video) 

ArchivedUser

I didn't see life meters, damage dealt meters, or anything else that would lead me to believe that the "one shot kill" was going to make it into the game.

Did I miss something?

ArchivedUser

This combat looks definitely action and I really cant see how tab targetting/more traditional combat can be worked in it. Which makes me think it will be toned downed down or embrace it actioness whatever it is I have faith studio can do it judging just from last time we saw combat.

Azathoth said:

I didn't see life meters, damage dealt meters, or anything else that would lead me to believe that the "one shot kill" was going to make it into the game.

Did I miss something?

Its 5 am but in one point archer headshots someone to death and its confirmed at least current phase that it matters where you hit( head, middle body and lower body.) Which possibly makes one shotting possible but really dont think devs will let it slip through (one shotting).

ArchivedUser

Sonicfani said:

This combat looks definitely action and I really cant see how tab targetting/more traditional combat can be worked in it. Which makes me think it will be toned downed down or embrace it actioness whatever it is I have faith studio can do it judging just from last time we saw combat.

Azathoth said:

I didn't see life meters, damage dealt meters, or anything else that would lead me to believe that the "one shot kill" was going to make it into the game.

Did I miss something?

Its 5 am but in one point archer headshots someone to death and its confirmed at least current phase that it matters where you hit( head, middle body and lower body.) Which possibly makes one shotting possible but really dont think devs will let it slip through (one shotting).

Yes...but you have no idea what the health was at before the head shot. He could have been at 10% health. I am not saying your observation is not possible just not confirmed. It is just as likely the person was low on health before the head shot. 

ArchivedUser

Sintu said:

Yes...but you have no idea what the health was at before the head shot. He could have been at 10% health. I am not saying your observation is not possible just not confirmed. It is just as likely the person was low on health before the head shot. 

Agreed, which is why I said possibly though I should have made that more clear my bad. 

ArchivedUser

"Steven's Vision"....more to come....

ArchivedUser

So "tactical" is the definition of some for slow, predictable, easy and boring right?

lol

Tactical....

ArchivedUser

AlaRebelde said:

So "tactical" is the definition of some for slow, predictable, easy and boring right?

Nope. Try again

ArchivedUser

Nanfoodle said:

You do get the balance problems of action targeting with hit boxes that lets you one shot people when you aim for the head and a tab target skill that runs by random rolls on hit? Someone speced in tab targeting will be at a huge disadvantage. There is no way to balance that. Hit Boxes need to go.

Agreed. Hence the alpha. And then the beta.

Plenty of time for constructive feedback. Save the ultimatums for later.

ArchivedUser

Seaber said:

AlaRebelde said:

So "tactical" is the definition of some for slow, predictable, easy and boring right?

Nope. Try again

When I think of “tactical”, I think of something like fighting enemies in the Mines of Moria in Lord of the Rings Online.  The tactics come into play by requiring you to time your attacks properly, possibly having to use abilities in the right order, and needing different strategies against different enemies.  Some need to be stunned at a particular time, others need to be interrupted, others need to be dodged when doing their major attacks, etc.  You need to be alert and flexible.  But the game itself uses traditional tab-targeting and no twitch skills beyond the usual “don’t stand in the circle of fire you idiot” requirements.

ArchivedUser

Dragnon said:

The weapon swapping mechanic has me a little worried. And how, when holstered then equipped, the weapon just seems to be pulled out of your pocket rather than a visual holstered position. 

It's still in early development. I expect (and wish) animations to get better, because they are horrible currently.

ArchivedUser

Was really excited for this game when I saw the early footage, it remindeded me of Guildwars 1. The combat was a bit too static but looked promising.

Aaaaaand its basically Guildwars 2 a dodge or die twitchfest, with HEADSHOTS.

Colour me disappointed.