Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
There are no XP boosts or inventory slots you can buy. They’re careful to avoid even something as innocuous as that. That should tell you how committed they are. And even early access is being handled carefully; of course there’s no mechanical benefit to alpha or beta access because at release you are wiped anyway. And I haven’t seen any indication that you can purchase your way to playing the release game early. So no real early access. So you’re worried about things not in this game.
Cash shop isn’t an illusion; it’s a reality. Name me a major MMO that doesn’t have some kind of cash shop. I haven’t seen one in years. Sorry, but that is the nature of games today like it or not. I can’t say it is necessary for a game to succeed, but my guess is that not having one is the equivalent of leaving money on the table and that’s generally not in the best interest of any business. I don’t like what most cash shops end up being either but they are something you have to live with. And they definitely aren’t all bad; in Secret World Legends for example almost all cash shop items are cosmetic and the closest P2W stuff gives minor boosts that you could get without the store (I’ve never even bothered even though I have a lifetime sub there and have cash shop credits to burn).
There is a large indie trend right now of MMORPG's in development which are trying to stay true to the roots of the Old MMO days and will not feature a cash shop. The most prominent one being Pantheon Rise of the Fallen and its got quite the following: https://www.mmorpg.com/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/news/the-most-wanted-mmo-of-2018-ispantheon-rise-of-the-fallen-1000047008
Yes, no recent MMORPG hasn't had a cash shop, but you know what? Every recent MMORPG has sucked and its why so many people say the genre is dead. Ask any veteran MMORPG gamer what his best experiences were and you will always get the same answer: Ultima, EQ, Vanilla Wow.. and then everything went downhill. MMO's started catering more to the casual player, allowing more options for instant gratification and among them.. the dreaded cash shop. And to that point, if Ashes busts I think it will cause a lot of gamers to give up on the genre altogether. Many would never back a game like this again.
The Real Life Clothing are the only Good thing about the Store
Santy182 said
outrageous, exactly what companies want you think.
@Atama
Not Atama said: HardCore Players is a sign of maintaining high-sub-count + RPers + Casuals.
Originally there was no place for Whales ... but apparently its all fine now ... despicable
They're all important to keep except for the whales - the Whales can drop-dead to be utterly honestly with you
Oh and pay to win has always been in existence. It just used to take a different form; buying an account that had leveled characters on it, buying in-game gear and money with out-of-game cash, paying someone to powerlevel you. It’s still bad even when it’s sanctioned by the designers. That’s why I like that this game has no P2W.
But anyway don’t talk about people who “think like me” because you don’t know me at all.
I see Ashes as a fresh start to the genre, we should do the same within our Ashes community. Let's talk to people the same way we'd talk to them IRL for a change.
Then you should know all-to-well then - an MMO is guaranteed to attract more players when Customers KNOW a Cash Shop is not already in the Game.
RMT ≠ MTX , but similar
RMT outside the Game Application is a deal made between them
RMT inside the Game Application is another story - it can be prevented
I'm just trying to say that to me it's more like a preference feature. I don't think cosmetics should showcase anyone's quality or merits as a player, except for introducing additional design variety. From my part, if people wanna buy a chandelier and wear it as a hat, well...so be it LOL
Thing is... Everything was and is about money, hopefully developers will not do it in a destructive way.
They went FtP with a shop. Not only did that keep the game open, it did better than before.
I don’t have to like reality to accept it. The old models don’t work. That’s why they don’t exist. An MMO is guaranteed to attract players when they perceive it as cheaper. It’s a fact and it’s why the industry is what it is today.
MMORPG players are attracted to non cash shop MMO's because they associated CS with P2W. Sure, there are many casual players whom will try a game if its cheap or even better, free to play. But those players tend to leave shortly after release, and only account for an initial surge.
However, devs will build their game for this casual audience as there tends to be just a handful whom will spend obscene amounts of money via the cash shop, and we call these people whales. Thus, we have seen this trend of developers creating a great game with a shitty P2W model, cash in upon release, and the game dies shortly after.
The cash shop doesn't promote sustainability, only short term profitability. That's why it persists despite pretty much no one liking it. And I mean.. I get it right? If we were in there shoes, and we have run the numbers, we know that our game will generate 300% more revenue if we include a cash shop upon release than its certainly hard to turn it down. But in the case of Ashes, we are actually trying to be part of an MMO we can be playing 10 years from now.
Moreover, the idea that a MMORPG needs a cash shop just to stay afloat despite a subscription model is simply false.
Yes, total P2W games tend to suck and not last long. Generally the ones that stick around have cash shops that limit the P2W aspects.
I never said an MMORPG needs a cash shop just to stay afloat if it has a subscription. It’s easy to contradict a concept that nobody has said. No, the MMORPGs who need cash shops are the ones that have to abandon the subscription model because they can’t keep customers. They make it free to play, but since they can’t succeed without income (which is true of every enterprise ever) they need to make money somehow. Since subscriptions won’t work, the cash shop is used.
I already mentioned LotRO. Other games that did this were Champions Online, The Secret World, Age of Conan, Elder Scrolls Online, DC Universe Online... I could probably go on but I think I made my point.
Now an interesting “hybrid” model is also common. The Secret World (recently relaunched as Secret World Legends) is an example. There is an in-game shop that mostly has cosmetics, has a few temporary stat boosters (not really P2W to me but others might disagree) and extra content (missions and dungeons and whole areas you can only access after buying). Now, you buy them with “Funcom Points” (Funcom is the developer) you can get two ways. You either buy the points directly in packages. Or you can subscribe to a monthly fee and get an allotment of points each month.
(Or like me you have a lifetime sub and you get the points every month without paying anything.)
It gives you the choice to subscribe and then you pay-to-play like an old school game. Or you play totally for free and just enjoy the content you have access to. Or you spend money when you feel like it for the things you want.
I like that model. It’s not what AoC is doing but a lot of games use it now and it seems to work well. It draws players with the lure of free play, and yet makes enough money to keep going.
As previously mentioned, I'm referring to the old pillars of the MMORPG genre. While you may be of the mind that that is dead and gone, I don't think there has been an extremely successful MMORPG since that time, cash shop or not. And Ashes is targeting this veteran MMO audience with much of what they say.
Also, concerning the cash shops staying afloat. I didn't mean that as a direct response to what you were saying, but more so as a counter point that cash shop is the reality that we must take for granted. We, as gamers, decide whats acceptable with our wallets.
An MMORPG is an expensive and lengthy project. The behemoth of video game development. And in the wake of World of Warcraft's shadow, its hard to muster the confidence to develop such a game that isn't focused on quick profit to ensure the bottom line. Hence the genre has gravitated towards catering more to the casual audience (because its larger) and promoting micro transactions. From everything I've heard Steven say, it seems he is trying to take a step back from this trend and I feel that removing the cash shop is in line with those footsteps.
Now, as far as cash shops go, IS has the best model Ive heard of yet, where anything you buy is account bound.
However my honest opinion is this. If you have an item in the cash shop, it should meet 2 conditions;
1. The item should not affect any stats.
2. The item should be availible in game as well.
That's it. Very simple, very fair.
Anything short of that is straying into a type of P2W or a cash grab imho.
-CS
As long as promises are kept, of course.
One thing I’m predicting now (so write it down if you like), this game won’t keep its subscription model forever. I’d be surprised if it’s kept for more than two years. I am pretty sure that it will be abandoned for more of a hybrid model. Because I think the subscription is going to limit game growth, as it seems to inevitably do for MMOs these days. The funding already gathered from these crowdfunding efforts along with the hype will be enough to keep it going for a while but I’m sure it will not be sustainable.
This isn’t a hope (actually it’s more of a fear) but I’m a very experienced online gamer and I’ve seen it happen with every subscription-based online game I’ve played for at least the last 5 years, maybe closer to 10.
If the game is good enough, than the population count will be high enough to sustain the sub model as the gold standard for the MMORPG has done for so many years (WoW). If the worst occurs and this game goes F2P, it will be the beginning of the end. That's when gold sellers start pouring in and things of that ilk. Therefore, I think it's imperative that the game be as attractive to as many gamers as possible. This forum is not a good representation of the players that will be turned away by a cash shop because most of us are already vested. But I assure you they exist.
So tell your friends and hope for the best, cause you either getting a sub model based game with no p2w cosmetic shop, or nothing.