The Marketing Danger of Alpha 1 Phase 1 Combat

ArchivedUser

If you go so public about Alpha 1 Phase 1 combat and make it all action based, not too many followers (like myself) will get that it is only temporary and that in phase 2 you will meld it back into target combat.

Most people will label Ashen immediately as ultra fast action based combat. And thus you will lose a lot of potential players, and publicity. I can see it already happening after Pax West in the past few hours on MMORPG.com and other sites. It is a huge marketing risk in my opinion.

Again I totally get it! But I guess not everyone will and tag the game as ultra fast pace action game only.

ArchivedUser

Werewood said:

If you go so public about Alpha 1 Phase 1 combat and make it all action based, not too many followers (like myself) will get that it is only temporary and that in phase 2 you will meld it back into target combat.

Most people will label Ashen immediately as ultra fast action based combat. And thus you will lose a lot of potential players, and publicity. I can see it already happening after Pax West in the past few hours on MMORPG.com and other sites. It is a huge marketing risk in my opinion.

Again I totally get it! But I guess not everyone will and tag the game as ultra fast pace action game only.

Feel free to inform the misinformed. I think Intrepid's transparency as an MMO developer is refreshing and their development needs at this point should take precedence over all concerns so that we get the game we all want. If they start second guessing their development then we've already lost.

Like it or loathe it, this game will be fast paced and will have an abundance of action combat in it. If I was trying to be objective about this, I'd argue this will be a huge draw to potential players not a turn off.

Their whole vision for Ashes is a risk but that's why the hype is real. As a total concept, there's nothing like it.  

ArchivedUser

Like it or loathe it, this game will be fast paced and will have an abundance of action combat in it. 

Actually in the last podcast they mentioned you can grow your skills either Target, Action or Hybrid. Alluding to the fact that you can go full Targeting and be effective. Meaning the combat can be also slower if you'd like without ultra speed jumping.

That is also the marketing risk that will grow with Alpha 1 Phase 1. These inaccurate interpretations. So per your advice - I am informing you about it

ArchivedUser

Werewood said:

Like it or loathe it, this game will be fast paced and will have an abundance of action combat in it. 

Actually in the last podcast they mentioned you can grow your skills either Target, Action or Hybrid. Alluding to the fact that you can go full Targeting and be effective. Meaning the combat can be also slower if you'd like without ultra speed jumping.

That is also the marketing risk that will grow with Alpha 1 Phase 1. These inaccurate interpretations. So per your advice - I am informing you about it

I saw the podcast myself and nothing you've added here contradicts my "inaccurate interpretation" seeing as we we're discussing A1P1. You may indeed "grow" your skills in different ways but to what extent is yet to be revealed, so I'll reserve my judgement on that until later in the testing phase. But don't believe for a second that tab targeting will allow you to play slow combat, because even if you choose to go down that path others won't and you'll have to kill them before they kill you.  

ArchivedUser

On a side note, I was watching one of the latest streams "of that game that's also coming out but shale not be named" and all but fell asleep. I get they wanted a slower pace combat in that game, but it is just too-slow (I feel). I do not want 'overwatch' speed of combat mind you.. But this dose feel much better then the 'other game'.

ArchivedUser

I have to agree with both Kratz and SaintJ. The game is a mix of both tab target and action if anyone thinks it is just one then it's their own fault for not researching the game. The game has been shown videos for over a year, and we have seen the combat grow if you still feel like you don't like the combat then don't play. Its that simple 

ArchivedUser

Werewood said:

If you go so public about Alpha 1 Phase 1 combat and make it all action based, not too many followers (like myself) will get that it is only temporary and that in phase 2 you will meld it back into target combat.

Most people will label Ashen immediately as ultra fast action based combat. And thus you will lose a lot of potential players, and publicity. I can see it already happening after Pax West in the past few hours on MMORPG.com and other sites. It is a huge marketing risk in my opinion.

Again I totally get it! But I guess not everyone will and tag the game as ultra fast pace action game only.

This is only an issue if you assum said players do not see any content after Alpha 1 Phase 1.

With no NDA and a persistent beta there is plenty opportunity for players to encounter all mechanics of the game.

I for one am really grateful that they are so transparent about the development. It's been super facinating to watch the game develop. I just wish people understood what development is and that content shown isn't representative of release.

ArchivedUser

Wonderboy said:

Werewood said:

If you go so public about Alpha 1 Phase 1 combat and make it all action based, not too many followers (like myself) will get that it is only temporary and that in phase 2 you will meld it back into target combat.

Most people will label Ashen immediately as ultra fast action based combat. And thus you will lose a lot of potential players, and publicity. I can see it already happening after Pax West in the past few hours on MMORPG.com and other sites. It is a huge marketing risk in my opinion.

Again I totally get it! But I guess not everyone will and tag the game as ultra fast pace action game only.

This is only an issue if you assum said players do not see any content after Alpha 1 Phase 1.

With no NDA and a persistent beta there is plenty opportunity for players to encounter all mechanics of the game.

I for one am really grateful that they are so transparent about the development. It's been super facinating to watch the game develop. I just wish people understood what development is and that content shown isn't representative of release.

This sums it up for me.


Also I want to add that in our current age of information, that this is probably the most refreshing thing we could have as gamers, and having all of us as PART of the ACTUAL game building progress from start to finish means we can actually help make sure the game is more or less not broken on release day and enjoy it at launch .

More disclosure and constant testing by us will ultimately make the game better. 

No one is blind to the fact that the finished product will be different than what we are seeing in an alpha. You are SEVERELY underestimating the intelligence and up to date info releasing on the Ashes community. We all have been informed that this is just Alpha testing and is not a beta with all game items and systems

ArchivedUser

I imagine the Content Creator community will be doing ample work creating clarity with their audiences about how the systems will work, both in the different Alpha phases and beyond.

ArchivedUser

You stressing too much man

ArchivedUser

Krojak said:

I imagine the Content Creator community will be doing ample work creating clarity with their audiences about how the systems will work, both in the different Alpha phases and beyond.

Hey @Krojak long time no see!

And hey @Werewood I get where you're coming from.   Watching that combat in the latest demo made me uneasy too.  If that is someone's first exposure to Ashes (and at this stage of development it is likely it will be for some people) it could give a false impression.   But it's so early in development that really anything they show us could still give a false impression. 

But that's kind of the point of the Alpha stages is to iron all this stuff out. 

Personally, I'm going to save most of my concern for a far more reasonable stage of development..... like Beta! 

ArchivedUser

I can see what you mean @Werewood I myself cant picture how they will merge tab targetting and action combat together, but I am excited to see it for myself in alpha 1! And if combat is good what does it matter in the long run?

ArchivedUser

Krojak said:

I imagine the Content Creator community will be doing ample work creating clarity with their audiences about how the systems will work, both in the different Alpha phases and beyond.

They may be trying their very best to enlighten the unwashed masses but oh my the comments left by said unwashed masses show they simply have no desire to be educated. I often wonder if some people even watched the content before they left their comments, I need to stop reading them lest my eyes start bleeding.

But there are many out there who will see the action combat and believe it is what the final product will be. Honestly it is their own fault and they will eventually learn the combat will evolve. But honestly MMORPG's are about so much more than combat, though having said that combat needs to be an engaging system you can enjoy for years, no easy task.

ArchivedUser

It might have been beneficial for them to have had a little disclaimer at the start of the action-based combat videos to let newcomers know that this is only a part of the combat system. It's not the prototype - it's more like half of a prototype. That said, Intrepid's audience is currently pretty niche. Outside of the cult following (of which, I am proudly a part), the game isn't particularly well-known or hyped. I'm guessing most of the ~40k (current) viewers are from people familiar to some extent with the game. While I'm sure the footage is being shown on other channels and is reaching a wider audience, it's still relatively small.

In all honesty, I don't feel like it's a bad thing right now to be off the mainstream hype-train. Although it's nice to be popular, there's a lot of backlash to games being hyped. It's also probably easier on the devs to not have the pressure of millions of viewers on their content. Rather than bending over backwards to convince everyone to anticipate their plan for the game with some half-baked rendition of the final project, they are comfortable enough to show their progress on the part they're currently working on.

S'all good

ArchivedUser

it is a risk devs take with transparency. Theres going to be the "Nooo! looks like garbage. Game dead on Arrival!" people but hopefully people will be doing their research and keep an active eye on the game instead of disregarding it after the first look. 

Myself, i was interested in the game after the nodes video dropped but they had practically no substance to the game that i could see at that time. So i kept a reminder to come back and check it out every month for progress and followed their monthly streams. A year later and here i am, and i couldn't be more excited and impressed with their progress.

ArchivedUser

I think Tab targetting is done by nearly ever mmo and as such can just be implemented with the minimum of testing. Action combat needs a lot more testing as very few games get it right as such I.S. Have made this a priority.  Also everyone has played tab target games. I would suggest many have not or if they have, played a poorly executed version of action combat in mmos  hence the apprehension.  Implementing this early and showing it early gives the Devs a chance to perfect it and players who are apprehensive a chance to try it before any preconceived miss conceptions are made.

ArchivedUser

@Kratz and all the other regulars. The pacing of combat in the battleground alpha will not be the pacing of normal combat in the game. They said they have sped it up just for the action part of the battlegrounds testing and that style and speed of play may be something they keep for the matchmaking part of the game only. So the people that are worried about the stunlock, backstab, stunlock, backstab, dead pace of combat will have a much more sedate experience in A2.

ArchivedUser

Meh if anybody creates a final decision about a game without reading enough about it, it's their fault, in fact the old tab-targeting was getting a lot less hype than the current version we were shown

ArchivedUser

AutumnLeaf said:

Meh if anybody creates a final decision about a game without reading enough about it, it's their fault, in fact the old tab-targeting was getting a lot less hype than the current version we were shown

Bingo

ArchivedUser

AutumnLeaf said:

Meh if anybody creates a final decision about a game without reading enough about it, it's their fault, in fact the old tab-targeting was getting a lot less hype than the current version we were shown