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Class Balancing

8 classes, 8 subclasses, 9 races, 18 weapons and most can be dual wielded. If only half the weapons can be dual wielded we're talking 93,312 combinations...

If I was to make a suggestion from a professional perspective. Balance each variable set between each other only and nothing else.

FOR EXAMPLE; Balance the weapons between each other, and nothing else.

With 93,312 combinations, you will not succeed if you don't.

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Comments

  • Like in ArcheAge, there will be builds that are viable and builds that nobody plays because they are useless.

    The player will have the freedom to fully customize his character from visuals to skills.

    I just hope they won't allow ranged classes to be overpowered like in basically any MMORPG. Range in itself is a great feature, no need to add massive damage on top of that.
  • if only it was 93,312 types of undead. I can dream
  • nagash said:
    if only it was 93,312 types of undead. I can dream
    lag?
  • Not what I had in mind but hey what ever gets me undead
  • nagash said:
    if only it was 93,312 types of undead. I can dream
    You probably can't name that many types of undead...
  • nagash said:
    if only it was 93,312 types of undead. I can dream
    You probably can't name that many types of undead...
    Want to bet ^^
  • @AutumnLeaf So you're a demon Lord? I guess you can serve underneath me.  >:)
  • Elder said:
    @AutumnLeaf So you're a demon Lord? I guess you can serve underneath me.  >:)
    Sorry mate cant do its just my disguise ;) my true nature would leave you broken and empty just by knowing it :O also king, really ? Lord sounds like....waaaaaay better ;)
  • nagash said:
    nagash said:
    if only it was 93,312 types of undead. I can dream
    You probably can't name that many types of undead...
    Want to bet ^^
    Red skeletons, dark red skeletons, darker red skeletons, ghosts with hats, ghosts with suitcases, dog zombies, haunted breadboxes...
  • Atama said:
    nagash said:
    nagash said:
    if only it was 93,312 types of undead. I can dream
    You probably can't name that many types of undead...
    Want to bet ^^
    Red skeletons, dark red skeletons, darker red skeletons, ghosts with hats, ghosts with suitcases, dog zombies, haunted breadboxes...
    Not what I had in mind but still funny ^^
  • Pointless topic, ofc it won't be balanced, only the most dumbest players would expect balance there.
  • nagash said:
    if only it was 93,312 types of undead. I can dream
    You probably can't name that many types of undead...
    Angel of decay
    Animus
    Atropal 
    Baelnorn
    Banshee,
    Blaspheme
    Bleakborn
    Blood Amniote
    Bloodmote Cloud
    Bone Rat Swarm
    Boneclaw
    Boneyard
    Brain In A Jar
    Cinderspawn
    Corpse Gatherer
    Corpse Rat Swarm
    Death Knight
    Deathlock
    Desiccator
    Draugr
    Entomber
    Entropic Reaper
    Forsaken Shell
    Ghast
    Ghost
    Ghoul
    Grave Dirt Golem
    Hulking Corpse
    Lich
    Mummy
    Necromental
    Necropolitan
    Nighthaunt
    Nightshade
    Nightwalker
    Phantom
    Plague Blight
    Poltergeist
    Rainment
    reaper
    Revenant
    scion
    Shadow
    Skeleton
    Skin kite
    Skirr
    Skulking Cyst
    Slaymate
    Spectre
    Tomb Mote
    Vampire
    Visage
    Wheep
    Wight
    Wraith
    Zombie

    Do you want more ^^
  • @nagash I didn't even bother to count them.... You win this round.

    Also on topic... I kinda dont want classes to be balanced... Each one should have strengths and weaknesses. You know if your a caster and a berserker can stay on top of you your gonna lose... On the other hand if you can manage to keep your distance your gonna win. There will be match ups that suck and some you can over come with skill. I wouldn't mind seeing that. 
  • akmaa said:
    Pointless topic, ofc it won't be balanced, only the most dumbest players would expect balance there.
    Well slap my buttocks and call me dumb ;)
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    @nagash I didn't even bother to count them.... You win this round.

    Also on topic... I kinda dont want classes to be balanced... Each one should have strengths and weaknesses. You know if your a caster and a berserker can stay on top of you your gonna lose... On the other hand if you can manage to keep your distance your gonna win. There will be match ups that suck and some you can over come with skill. I wouldn't mind seeing that. 
    I think part of the problem is using opposite terminology for the same thing.
    To me two completely different builds being able to stalemate each other with TTK depending on what build is playing what.....is balance.
    Others call it rock paper scissors and portray it as imbalance.
    /shrugs who needs language barriers when opposing verbiage means the same thing.
    lol

    Seriously though, by default all builds should stalemate with varying TTK.
    What matters is you give players the tools to break that stalemate with the environment or interrupt/counter system. Then you dont sit there forever in eternal battle when two players play to perfection with no counters available.
  • I recall them saying in one of the earlier twitch streams that they weren't going to chase balance in 1v1 all classes equal sort of way.

    Instead the plan was to try and make different builds necessary for different things through in game mechanics by making things totally unrelated to dps required to finish and that in 1v1 pvp sort of situations it would be more of a rock paper scissors type of sytem assuming equally skilled players


  • All I care about is if each class has a reason to play it, and is enjoyable to play.  I don’t care if most people think one class is “better” than another.  If the class that’s “not as good” is still viable, has something unique that it offers, and is fun to play then it justifies its existence.

    You only have a problem when a class sucks and there’s no reason to play it.  And sometimes that happens in an MMO.
  • nagash said:
    if only it was 93,312 types of undead. I can dream
    The thing I love most about you, Nagash, is your consistency.
  • Krojak said:
    nagash said:
    if only it was 93,312 types of undead. I can dream
    The thing I love most about you, Nagash, is your consistency.
    You have to stick to your principles even if they are a bit "odd"
  • I would like if instead of balance there is a constant oneupmanship warrior/* chases after mage/* for a few levels, then the mage/* gets a skill or a weapon that makes him superior to the warrior, but lessor to another class.  Keep everyone guessing as to if another class is better than them, could keep ganking to a minimum.
  • I guess major thing helping them to balance is the fact that skills just get modified by your secondary and you dont get new skills by it.

    I just hope they nail it for I remember when I played GW2 and dungeon parties refused me because I was ranger.
  • nagash said:
    nagash said:
    if only it was 93,312 types of undead. I can dream
    You probably can't name that many types of undead...
    Angel of decay
    Animus
    Atropal 
    Baelnorn
    Banshee,
    Blaspheme
    Bleakborn
    Blood Amniote
    Bloodmote Cloud
    Bone Rat Swarm
    Boneclaw
    Boneyard
    Brain In A Jar
    Cinderspawn
    Corpse Gatherer
    Corpse Rat Swarm
    Death Knight
    Deathlock
    Desiccator
    Draugr
    Entomber
    Entropic Reaper
    Forsaken Shell
    Ghast
    Ghost
    Ghoul
    Grave Dirt Golem
    Hulking Corpse
    Lich
    Mummy
    Necromental
    Necropolitan
    Nighthaunt
    Nightshade
    Nightwalker
    Phantom
    Plague Blight
    Poltergeist
    Rainment
    reaper
    Revenant
    scion
    Shadow
    Skeleton
    Skin kite
    Skirr
    Skulking Cyst
    Slaymate
    Spectre
    Tomb Mote
    Vampire
    Visage
    Wheep
    Wight
    Wraith
    Zombie

    Do you want more ^^
    Yeah I want 93,312 types and please stop making up gruesome names that fit the undead theme.... get me a character sheet for every single type then we'll talk ;)
  • Why does the game have to be balanced?
    Even across one topic, such as weapons?

    If I want to run around with a "crafted" pointy stick, it would break immersion if I could kill somebody just as effectively with a stick than a finely crafted sword.
    Of course, this would mean I'd put all my skill points in to making toothpicks, and become the silent killer stabbing you in your high-fantasy, un-brushed gums.
  • nagash said:
    nagash said:
    if only it was 93,312 types of undead. I can dream
    You probably can't name that many types of undead...
    Angel of decay
    Animus
    Atropal 
    Baelnorn
    Banshee,
    Blaspheme
    Bleakborn
    Blood Amniote
    Bloodmote Cloud
    Bone Rat Swarm
    Boneclaw
    Boneyard
    Brain In A Jar
    Cinderspawn
    Corpse Gatherer
    Corpse Rat Swarm
    Death Knight
    Deathlock
    Desiccator
    Draugr
    Entomber
    Entropic Reaper
    Forsaken Shell
    Ghast
    Ghost
    Ghoul
    Grave Dirt Golem
    Hulking Corpse
    Lich
    Mummy
    Necromental
    Necropolitan
    Nighthaunt
    Nightshade
    Nightwalker
    Phantom
    Plague Blight
    Poltergeist
    Rainment
    reaper
    Revenant
    scion
    Shadow
    Skeleton
    Skin kite
    Skirr
    Skulking Cyst
    Slaymate
    Spectre
    Tomb Mote
    Vampire
    Visage
    Wheep
    Wight
    Wraith
    Zombie

    Do you want more ^^
    Yeah I want 93,312 types and please stop making up gruesome names that fit the undead theme.... get me a character sheet for every single type then we'll talk ;)
    you know will but are you sure you want the backlash ^^
  • I would like to see an undead race tree , since the basic Skeleton/Zombie/Ghoul to more complex ones like the overlord (references to the anime Overlord lul)
  • I would like to see an undead race tree , since the basic Skeleton/Zombie/Ghoul to more complex ones like the overlord (references to the anime Overlord lul)
    its unlikely we will get one but a necromancer is fine for now
  • Well if I as a necromancer can spawn something like this then I wouldn't really care about the undead tree/races.
  • Well if I as a necromancer can spawn something like this then I wouldn't really care about the undead tree/races.
    not bad but still not as good as krell




  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    With 93,312 combinations, you will not succeed if you don't.

    IDK, there could be ways to balance things somewhat, if they designed things on the back-end to be easily adjustable. And I don't mean like every combination is identical, when I say balanced, we all know that is silly. Like who'd be playing a Guardian dual wielding wands and expect that to work out right?

    Anyway, point being, if they had enough meta-data collection and analysis and some back-end scalars on everything, it could be balanced easily to where nothing is stupid OP. That'd take some smart engineering out the box to pull off, but who's to say they're not giving it a good effort? 

    Just seems to me like these days partially automating a class balance monitoring system wouldn't be impossible. We have AI's that'll beat people in jeopardy but we can't automatically detect and flag/adjust class/race/weapon combinations that are wildly outperforming others? Hard to believe. This is simple AF compared to that.

    What I'm getting at is that games that aren't balanced are games that the devs can't be bothered to balance. It comes from a lack of motivation not a lack of capability. I hope we don't have that same problem with this game, with these devs. I'm hopeful.

  • With this many class/weapon combinations, achieving "balance" will be impossible as it is with pretty much any other MMORPG. This is OKAY. What matters is that the dev's are responsive, and are always trying to achieve "balance" even if its futile. As long as necessary nerfs/buffs come swiftly, people will be less inclined to play the meta/cookie cutter and just play what they like.
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