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Racial Stats, With or Against?

2

Comments

  • With for me because I always nice to see different add-ons based on racial status or even some + or - depending on or with different spell damage or environment damage etc
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    It does cause a meta, and elitism among people who believe if you're not min/maxing you're not playing right, your race shouldn't decide bonus stats. 

    Imagine you're walking along and begin to notice certain races are vastly siding and playing one class/style. Gets pretty repetitive and watered down doesn't it? It's not fun to see or play with.
  • Heartbeat said:
    It does cause a meta, and elitism among people who believe if you're not min/maxing you're not playing right, your race shouldn't decide bonus stats. 

    Imagine you're walking along and begin to notice certain races are vastly siding and playing one class/style. Gets pretty repetitive and watered down doesn't it? It's not fun to see or play with.
    Racial bonuses alone wont stop min-maxers the only difference will be the out-ward appearance of this so called 'race' (though without racial bonuses they will all be the same thing with a different look)
  • Sintu said:
    Sintu said:
    reaccon said:
    If stats are involved there will always be a meta. 
    Well no 2 races should be the same anyway, IS did say that they want different classes to feel different depending on race too, the diversity is nice and min-maxing wont get people anywhere if they dont have a solid grasp on the game itself.
    Will still have metas. But the racials should be fun to level. 
    Just have to wait and see how it turns out :3
  • in vanguard: saga of heroes, each race got a crafting starting stat, diplomacy stat and a combat ability, but with crafting and diplomacy stats, you could balance it out with gear.  combat abilities had a long cooldown so didn't factor in too much with character creation, though turning into a wolf if you were a bard using a run song made you run extremely fast, great for solo, but not that great for a group since you'd outrun the group when trying to retreat using that ability.

    so as long as they're fun, and they add flavour without disrupting balance, I'm happy.
  • I don't know I don't really see how racial min maxing is any different than min maxing with secondary archetypes, in fact I feel like it allows for more possibility to balance things.

    For instance let say that for a tank/tank one of the dwarf races has the most benefit but if your an tank/fighter your better off as orc or if your tank/rogue you can gain more from being an elf.

    In a well designed system there can be a reason to have any one off those build where at different times each is more effective than the other depending on variables such as boss mechanics or party composition so there is no reason to see a bunch of the same thing running around all the time.

    And in the end none of the min maxing even really matters because I can tell you from experience I'll take an sub optimal build played by someone who is skilled at playing it over the meta super character played by someone that took a build off a website cause they heard it was the best any day of the week.

    Not to mention this is an mmo which means constant buffs and nerfs and often times something that was once considered unplayable by the masses becomes the flavor of the months over night.



  • It would be nice to push it as far as Crowfall, in fact.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    You can create your playstyle around your race, just as much as you can create your playstyle around your archetype. Choice should matter as risk vs reward & gain vs loss is AoC core game design.

    So as long as its done right, there wont be a specific build for a specific job, but alternate perfected builds to do the same job in a different way. Its not a question of 1 valid perfect build, but multiple valid perfect builds. They still have to use harmonic components to get the most out of them. And thats the challenge, finding, refining, crafting harmonic components that create build resonance.

    Using mutually dependant recipe systems allows a resonant build system.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    I'm probably a contrary person, but a lot of times I like to play against type.
  • Excuse me sir? Orcs must sit at the BACK of the bus.
  • @Sintu Stats are the only thing that dictate meta - its all based on how its designed 

    For example
    • a few MMOs Combat-Abilities are designed to where low-levels can legit defeat high-leveled & high-geared players if the " conditions " are met 
    • Such as ... an ability can inflict MORE damage if the Low-Leveled Player uses it against a High-Level Player - giving the low-leveled player a chance to win. 
    • ( it was solely Defensive Abilities that did things like this )
    I Intrepid continues to bring back old abilities we've seen soo many times before in other popular games .... then its going to play just like them - near identical in fact.

    Ashes can very easily turn into a Clone of another game - Intrepid gotta think outside the box

    they Mage Abilities in Pre-Alpha  from 2017 LiveStreams is a good start  
  • I want racial stats. I don't want a 4 foot gnome side by side a 7 foot Orc both with 6 Str, 5 agi, 5 Int, 4 Wis, and 3 luck. I intensely dislike my character's racial choice being cosmetic only.

    I mean even guild wars 2 made their racial difference in what types of skills they could learn from their race unique to each. From the Charr's Charzooka to the Norn ability to turn into a Leopardman.
  • Definitely for racial stats. Enough with the "everything must be balanced to perfection" argument. Bring back flavor, choices and consequence. 
  • With 100%. Rather than ristricting classes, it will add flavor to each individual class. I don't see why it's an issue
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    I don't like racials for several reasons, but at the same time I don't mind them if it doesn't guarantee a victory in a fight, are non-combat, or they cannot be used in every fight due to them having a long cooldown.
  • if im gonna be an orky warboss i want to feel like one;D
  • Racials are what spices things up after all. With the wide range of specializations this will have a strong accent on alt-lovers, roleplayers and plenty of other people that will be there to actually enjoy the game. Having separate characters for various ingame activities is what MMORPG's are for me.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    Racials are ok as long as they don't break the game. 

    Giving Ogers Stun immunity, like someone mentioned, will break the game because it will disable a important game mechanic (Stun) for a whole race.   

    And racials at all should not be too powerful. I don't want to see 700 Oger Fighter because that's the only class + race combo that make sense.   

    Racials should be small (maybe a little funny) goodies, but not prevent a player from playing the class + race combo he wants.     


    Some suggestions: 
    A class could have - 
    - a higher alcohol tolerance
    - a higher hp recovery rate (1-5% not more) but also use more food. 
    - a natural resistance towards poison / cold / fire ( again only 5% at max) 
    - take a bit less fall damage.
    - breath a bit longer underwater
    - do craftskill x a bit faster
  • Ashes has racial stat progression as well as racial augments.
    I expect a high level Vek Rogue to have greater Strength or Stamina than a Pyrian Rogue, but I expect a high level Pyrian Rogue to have greater Dex than a Vek Rogue.
    Which means combat for a Vek Rogue should perform significantly differently than combat for a Pyrian Rogue. 
    Not necessarily worse, but different.
    And the racial combat should make the combat differences even more significant.

    Hopefully, the same will be true for crafting.
  • I'm all for it! As long as they don't make a detrimental difference
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    I love the concept but, in actual application, they have caused nothing but trouble. It always comes down to one of the following.

    A ) They are insignificant.. so what was the point anyway?

    B ) They are significant. So in order to optimize, you are required to pick certain combinations. (Essentially resulting in limiting player option.)

    In my mind, neither scenario is really worth the effort. So you might as well remove it. 
  • It should have minor stats which not really matter in pvp.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    In a game with social progression and religious progression and dual-classing in addition to class progression and racial progression, "optimizing" is not really a thing.
    Only having class progression is inherently limiting. Focusing on the optimal build is inherently limiting.

    If you think you've found the optimal combo for a social/religious/racial/sub-class build - great. But, that's not going to limit other players.

    I'm not expecting my Vek Rogue to be the optimal Rogue.
    I'm interested to see how racial progression helps my Vek Rogue play differently than a Pyrian Rogue or an Aelar Rogue.

  • Dygz said:
    In a game with social progression and religious progression and dual-classing in addition to class progression and racial progression, "optimizing" is not really a thing.
    Only having class progression is inherently limiting. Focusing on the optimal build is inherently limiting.

    If you think you've found the optimal combo for a social/religious/racial/sub-class build - great. But, that's not going to limit other players.

    I'm not expecting my Vek Rogue to be the optimal Rogue.
    I'm interested to see how racial progression helps my Vek Rogue play differently than a Pyrian Rogue or an Aelar Rogue.


    This reminds of my buddies Orc Rogue in his D&D game, when he'd get detected while sneaking he'd intimidate everyone to "not" see him.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    Dygz said:
    In a game with social progression and religious progression and dual-classing in addition to class progression and racial progression, "optimizing" is not really a thing.
    Only having class progression is inherently limiting. Focusing on the optimal build is inherently limiting.

    If you think you've found the optimal combo for a social/religious/racial/sub-class build - great. But, that's not going to limit other players.

    I'm not expecting my Vek Rogue to be the optimal Rogue.
    I'm interested to see how racial progression helps my Vek Rogue play differently than a Pyrian Rogue or an Aelar Rogue.


    Ya man I want a ton of choices with a limited amount of active skills available, there are so many games out there where everyone of the same class is the same.

    This is looking like a game where you could walk into a room with 50 different rogues all with different set up and all viable cause they have all been built by someone for their own style of play and that's one of the things that's been missing in most mmo's for a long time.


  • It is the way to make character more unique. It does not need to be something drastical, just a slight difference would do just fine
  • DaveMLG said:
    It is the way to make character more unique. It does not need to be something drastical, just a slight difference would do just fine
    What the panda said ^^
  • I'm all for more customization, not less.

    And while it wouldn't bother me if racials made a big difference, they rarely do affect that much in the end. 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    Not so much AGAINST it, rather, I’m just indifferent. If Steven can pull it off and make it cool I’m all hands down for that 😎  was disappointed in the past with this system but I want to be proven wrong!
  • I really like racial stats as long as they are not too powerful in a specific area and skewed to a specific class/craft.  Let the min/maxers pigeonhole themselves if they want to.
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