So because you are incapable of figuring out how to make it work, or dont personally like the idea, you are projecting that it cant be done or must be bad ?
I find Intrepids innovation and open minded experimentation a breath of fresh air.
If time to kill is too fast the mechanic where if you retaliate it lessons the death penalty might be hard to take advantage off. if there is a sensible time to kill and an execute skill when your opponent has low health left that the animation is a head shot that might be quite cool.
I would need more information for a solid answer, but I ultimately an leaning towards a HARD NO
This is an MMORPG … not an MMOFPS Headshots should hurt more … but not an automatic critical . And even if so, the DMG output should be more technical than that imo
While I do like DarkFall, it'll suit Ashes of Creation - it already has bad vibes of Halo via the Massive Jumps .
I LIKE the ability, I like being able to reach other places with it … but I don't like I'm getting Halo Vibes + an Online FPS game - just no
Aiming with a bow from a 100m is an advantage melee won’t have. Yet should a sword swing hit multiple hotboxes?
One could pop stealth to close the distance then when sword meets tonsils I recon its a win.
Ultimately though going down this path would lead to meta class builds robbing the game of a more diverse range of viable builds for combat so my answer to the poll is no.
Well, some arguments are for headshots favor like: "It's true action combat, so it is normal to have it.", but please, show me single MMO with action combat and with headshot system.
For me it is BIG no.
1) You cant realy balance it when you have game with characters with different sizes and shapes. 2) What about campers? Realy fun have this kind of players in MMO lol. /sacrcasm 3) Noone will care about melee combat anymore. Players always looking for easiest way how to win. Give them bug, they will use it. Give them exploit, they will use it. Give them cheat and they will use it. Give them headshot system and you will stay with players runing across the map with bow and shoting from long distance. Run, hit, run, hit, run, hit. Only idiot will bring sword in this word. 4) It is time to make action combat more strategic and slow it down a bit.
Next time you can tell the game will have stun-lock-to-death or built-in macros. Another bulshit. Do you trying make new FPS or mindless MOBA? Game already look like it from videos.
Well, some arguments are for headshots favor like: "It's true action combat.", but please, show me single MMO with action combat and with headshot system.
For me it is BIG no.
1) You cant realy balanced it when you have game with characters with different sizes and shapes. 2) What about campers? Realy fun have this kind of players in MMO lol. /sacrcasm 3) Noone will care about melee combat anymore. Players always looking for easiest way how to wil. Give them bug, they will use it. Give them exploit, they will use it. Give them cheat and they will use it. Give them headshot system and you will stay with players runing across the map with bow and shoting from long distance. Run, hit, run, hit, run, hit. Only idiot will bring sword in this word. 4) It is time to make action combat more strategic and slow it down a bit.
Next time you can tell the game will have stun-lock-to-death. Another bulshit. Do you trying make new FPS or mindless MOBA? Game already look like it from videos.
Hehe can plese somebody tell me why this post got deleted and can't be posted twice in same form? It happened to me for like 10th time. Some forum feature combined with some kind of bug?
Well, some arguments are for headshots favor like: "It's true action combat, so it is normal to have it.", but please, show me single MMO with action combat and with headshot system.
For me it is BIG no.
1) You cant realy balance it when you have game with characters with different sizes and shapes. There will be like 5% players with large body. I know, hitboxes will be same, but our eyes does not give a S word. 2) What about campers? Realy fun have this kind of players in MMO lol. /sarcasm 3) Noone will care about melee combat anymore. Players always looking for easiest way how to win. Give them bug, they will use it. Give them exploit, they will use it. Give them cheat and they will use it. Give them headshot system and you will stay with players runing across the map with bow and shoting from long distance. Run, hit, run, hit, run, hit. Only idiot will bring sword in this word. 4) Is time to make action combat more strategic and slow it down a bit.
Next time you can tell the game will have stun-lock-to-death. Another bulshit. Do you trying make new FPS or mindless MOBA? Game already look like it from videos.
Hehe can plese somebody tell me why this post got deleted and can't be posted twice in same form? It happened to me for like 10th time. Some forum feature combined with some kind of bug?
Well, some arguments are for headshots favor like: "It's true action combat, so it is normal to have it.", but please, show me single MMO with action combat and with headshot system.
For me it is BIG no.
1) You cant realy balance it when you have game with characters with different sizes and shapes. There will be like 5% players with large body. I know, hitboxes will be same, but our eyes does not give a S word. 2) What about campers? Realy fun have this kind of players in MMO lol. /sarcasm 3) Noone will care about melee combat anymore. Players always looking for easiest way how to win. Give them bug, they will use it. Give them exploit, they will use it. Give them cheat and they will use it. Give them headshot system and you will stay with players runing across the map with bow and shoting from long distance. Run, hit, run, hit, run, hit. Only idiot will bring sword in this word. 4) Is time to make action combat more strategic and slow it down a bit.
Next time you can tell the game will have stun-lock-to-death. Another bulshit. Do you trying make new FPS or mindless MOBA? Game already look like it from videos.
OK. I will play devils advocate on that one...
1. We are talking about the hitbox for the head only which will be the same size for every race (strawman).
2. What about campers ? They will want to camp ragardless of hitboxes (strawman).
3. No one will care about melee ? Except if every players has a compulsory ranged AND melee weapon of choice (as per old stream). Ranged OP is only an argument if its a melee OR ranged design. And you only land head shots against stationary idiots who are the kind of players who like to stand in fire.
4. Dont disagree with this.
Stunlock ? Not related to headshots. Absolutely no one on here wants or asks for stunlock. I myself favour a variable snare state that can be attacked x% at a time or removed x% at a time. Is that your fear ? Root someone from range so head shots are easier ? Then that wouldnt be a reflection of skill and so shouldnt be rewarded. No argument from me for removing headshot mutipliers on stunlocked players (who cant move rather than wont move).
It appears to me you are more against action combat than headshots. Thats a pity, because the game will be action combat and tab combat. And if you was serious about tactical combat, you would accept that such combat demands skill. Repeating a rotation verbatim is not skill, hitting a rapidly moving target with a 1 screen pixel diameter is.
Having a HS Hitbox instead of a Crit-%-Chance sounds like a really cool idea. As someone that plays FPS games I really do hope it will make it in the final version of the game
Altough I can see why people might dont like it. A HS hitbox to decide wether or not a hit will be a crit or not means that people with no or poor FPS skills will end up with a poor crit rate whatsoever. If they do want to optimize theyre gameplay, they cant play with Action Combat. While people with good FPS skills will end up with a nearly 100% crit chance
While I love involving a skill like aiming in an MMORPG, it might be unfair to people with no/poor skill
I don't really mind either way I'll use it to its full potential if it's left in though I don't really like the headshot=crit. Maybe just a straight damage increase with a % crit would be more balanced.
Still a lot of questions to be answered about it, so I'm just gona stick with a little trust in doing it right. It's apparent that there is still a lot of missconception about it, seeing how people attribute headshots to one shot kills somehow. No idea how that missunderstanding happened. Noone ever said it will be like that, all they said is that it will be counted as a crit and crits have been in mmos since...before MMOs existed in an online format. Herrow from D&D.
Honestly...This and the corruption system are the ONLY things I'm worried about. But as an Alpha tester, I'll get to see it, and test it. If its a game breaker for me, then bummer....My hope for this combat system is a Primeval from ArcheAge, that has viable damage. If Archery ends up being super headshot based, I'll be sad. I just dont know how the difference between races will work. How will the hitbox on a small female dwarf, remotely compare to a tall elven male? IF in alpha/beta testing, it proves to be fine, Im ok with it. If it seems to be unbalanced (Currently you can snipe with the laser pointer longbow/crossbow in the BR. Which is exactly what I dont want archery to turn into. And yes i know kill speed is turned up)
As long as action combat doesn’t have a clear advantage over tab-targeting, there’s no reason headshots shouldn’t be a thing. Steven has already said that you will not typically be speccing a 50–50 mix of action/tab. It’s one or the other for the majority of your build, so those of you who do not like headshots (the Tab crowd) don’t have to. Those who do want headshots (the Action crowd) should be free to shoot heads as they please, so long as their aim does not make it impossible for tab-targeters to compete.
I vote with No for headshot, because I meant to PvP. But in case of pure PvE, I would be open for some "weak point" on the bosses, even if they are just temporally. Maybe a team work need to open this weak spot. For example the mages can heat a piece of armor with fireball and the boss remove it so the rangers can make extra damage.
@Hartwell The thing is, collision is a lot more prominent in Ashes. It's not just headshoting, you can't run through other characters either in battle situations at least. They plan on having spells be able to collide with one another as well as be intercepted by players, so they don't make collision detecting just to make the crit spotsensitive. @Marzzo1337 No it won't, headshot will be the equivalent of standart
crits, you won't just oneshot someone because you landed a crit. They
also stated they stear away from stun locking and focus on interrupt
abilities. @Knxguy It's just the actioncombat equivalent of a crit, nothing more. Some abilities use autoaim others will be free aim. Autoaim
will have the standart crit chance% while free aim will be
spotsensitive and maybe a lesser degree of crit%. They are figuring out
the details with the BR test right now.
I think headshots are just a bad idea. The fact is the hit box on a head usually isn't accurate. They are usually as big as the head or larger. Where the reality is just because you hit someone in their head doesn't mean it should be a critical hit. With bows it can glance on the skull and have minimal damage, or deflect over a helm or other armour. What my concern is they make the whole head area critical. Now if they make the like I should in the attached pic then I would be ok with it. As the chance is much lower and it really is skill to make it then.
@misg and yet a hit to the head, even to a trained body will hurt more/ be more serious than a hit to the body. A bulletproof vest will do just as much as a helmet, saving you from getting a new hole shot into you, but the force against the head will still be, in general, a lot more dangerous than to the body. It's all simplified, I mean are we really going to start arguing how one tiny human can withstand the damage of a swing from a fully grown dragon that is 20 times the human size? The mass alone in that swing would just make you go squish and not in a funny cartoon way. Or how a fireball will not set cloth armor on fire or roast you in your plate armor?
It's fantasy, don't be so stingy about it, free aim needs a way to crit like tabtarget, weak points and headshot is a good option I would say. : 3
@Hartwell The thing is, collision is a lot more prominent in Ashes. It's not just headshoting, you can't run through other characters either in battle situations at least. They plan on having spells be able to collide with one another as well as be intercepted by players, so they don't make collision detecting just to make the crit spotsensitive. ...
The thing is that there are two ways I can possibly think of handling headshots.
The first would be to have three separate collision objects. Have one for bumping into objects, one for taking a body hit, and one for taking the headshot.
The second would be to have a single capsule for everything damage related. After colliding with said capsule you then do some additional calculating to determine if it was above a certain point from the midpoint. Much less accurate, but it would be more efficient due to less objects in the world to check the collision on.
This kind of system will already be riddled with many different server side calculations. Should there be another that is made for every single one of those hundreds of spells being cast in a massive battle? Just my two cents.
Outside of the fact that NO its not a good idea, especially since they plan to have a hybrid combat system with both tab and action targeting...
Adding different body zones means adding more hit detection means more lag in larger battles. More work for the server to do.
Say you have a huge battle right? 100 vs 100
Without hit detection:
200 players, projectiles, movements, skills, dodges, blocks, damage reduction, crits, misses. Already a METRIC FUCKTON TO COMPUTE
With hit detection: All that plus 2 more decisions(+ if they want leg shots or whatever) FOR EACH CHARACTER ON THE FIELD...
if you want to say WELL IT WORKS IN PLANETSIDE
Then just think about how much less complicated it is to deal with an MMO FPS that is purpose built to handle this exact scenario vs a game that is built to be an RPG with far more elements in the actual game.
This isn't eve online where we can do time dilation.
You need to minimize the amount of server usage in large battles so that the servers dont become hamster wheels.
I'm not a programmer, I do not know what you can and can't do to make this happen. Just saying they are not doing it just for that one little application of it. Collisiondamage is in every shooter and they usually run smooth as hell even when 60+ people fire with 20+ rounds/sec. : 3 Can't be that demanding.
With them going into this project with this previous experience, if they say they want to add headshots then i'm cool with them adding headshots. If later down the line, they decide it was a bad decision then so be it but I don't think we should try to tell them what their tech can or can't do.
I'm not a programmer, I do not know what you can and can't do to make this happen. Just saying they are not doing it just for that one little application of it. Collisiondamage is in every shooter and they usually run smooth as hell even when 60+ people fire with 20+ rounds/sec. : 3 Can't be that demanding.
I am a programmer. And yes. It can be that demanding. Drops mic.
Comments
if intrepid are going to add in headshot damage AND tab targeting option how in the hell does that work?
headshot damage in an mmo is a bad idea
This is an MMORPG … not an MMOFPS
Headshots should hurt more … but not an automatic critical . And even if so, the DMG output should be more technical than that imo
While I do like DarkFall, it'll suit Ashes of Creation - it already has bad vibes of Halo via the Massive Jumps .
I LIKE the ability, I like being able to reach other places with it … but I don't like I'm getting Halo Vibes + an Online FPS game - just no
Ultimately though going down this path would lead to meta class builds robbing the game of a more diverse range of viable builds for combat so my answer to the poll is no.
For me it is BIG no.
1) You cant realy balance it when you have game with characters with different sizes and shapes.
2) What about campers? Realy fun have this kind of players in MMO lol. /sacrcasm
3) Noone will care about melee combat anymore. Players always looking for easiest way how to win. Give them bug, they will use it. Give them exploit, they will use it. Give them cheat and they will use it. Give them headshot system and you will stay with players runing across the map with bow and shoting from long distance. Run, hit, run, hit, run, hit. Only idiot will bring sword in this word.
4) It is time to make action combat more strategic and slow it down a bit.
Next time you can tell the game will have stun-lock-to-death or built-in macros. Another bulshit. Do you trying make new FPS or mindless MOBA? Game already look like it from videos.
For me it is BIG no.
1) You cant realy balanced it when you have game with characters with different sizes and shapes.
2) What about campers? Realy fun have this kind of players in MMO lol. /sacrcasm
3) Noone will care about melee combat anymore. Players always looking for easiest way how to wil. Give them bug, they will use it. Give them exploit, they will use it. Give them cheat and they will use it. Give them headshot system and you will stay with players runing across the map with bow and shoting from long distance. Run, hit, run, hit, run, hit. Only idiot will bring sword in this word.
4) It is time to make action combat more strategic and slow it down a bit.
Next time you can tell the game will have stun-lock-to-death. Another bulshit. Do you trying make new FPS or mindless MOBA? Game already look like it from videos.
For me it is BIG no.
1) You cant realy balance it when you have game with characters with different sizes and shapes. There will be like 5% players with large body. I know, hitboxes will be same, but our eyes does not give a S word.
2) What about campers? Realy fun have this kind of players in MMO lol. /sarcasm
3) Noone will care about melee combat anymore. Players always looking for easiest way how to win. Give them bug, they will use it. Give them exploit, they will use it. Give them cheat and they will use it. Give them headshot system and you will stay with players runing across the map with bow and shoting from long distance. Run, hit, run, hit, run, hit. Only idiot will bring sword in this word.
4) Is time to make action combat more strategic and slow it down a bit.
Next time you can tell the game will have stun-lock-to-death. Another bulshit. Do you trying make new FPS or mindless MOBA? Game already look like it from videos.
It's apparent that there is still a lot of missconception about it, seeing how people attribute headshots to one shot kills somehow. No idea how that missunderstanding happened.
Noone ever said it will be like that, all they said is that it will be counted as a crit and crits have been in mmos since...before MMOs existed in an online format. Herrow from D&D.
@Marzzo1337 No it won't, headshot will be the equivalent of standart crits, you won't just oneshot someone because you landed a crit. They also stated they stear away from stun locking and focus on interrupt abilities.
@Knxguy It's just the actioncombat equivalent of a crit, nothing more.
Some abilities use autoaim others will be free aim.
Autoaim will have the standart crit chance% while free aim will be spotsensitive and maybe a lesser degree of crit%. They are figuring out the details with the BR test right now.
A bulletproof vest will do just as much as a helmet, saving you from getting a new hole shot into you, but the force against the head will still be, in general, a lot more dangerous than to the body.
It's all simplified, I mean are we really going to start arguing how one tiny human can withstand the damage of a swing from a fully grown dragon that is 20 times the human size? The mass alone in that swing would just make you go squish and not in a funny cartoon way.
Or how a fireball will not set cloth armor on fire or roast you in your plate armor?
It's fantasy, don't be so stingy about it, free aim needs a way to crit like tabtarget, weak points and headshot is a good option I would say. : 3
Adding different body zones means adding more hit detection means more lag in larger battles. More work for the server to do.
Say you have a huge battle right? 100 vs 100
Without hit detection:
200 players, projectiles, movements, skills, dodges, blocks, damage reduction, crits, misses.
Already a METRIC FUCKTON TO COMPUTE
With hit detection:
All that plus 2 more decisions(+ if they want leg shots or whatever) FOR EACH CHARACTER ON THE FIELD...
if you want to say WELL IT WORKS IN PLANETSIDE
Then just think about how much less complicated it is to deal with an MMO FPS that is purpose built to handle this exact scenario vs a game that is built to be an RPG with far more elements in the actual game.
This isn't eve online where we can do time dilation.
You need to minimize the amount of server usage in large battles so that the servers dont become hamster wheels.
Can't be that demanding.
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/news/2015/1/planetside-2-gamers-aiming-for-fps-battle-world-record-this-weekend-370414
With them going into this project with this previous experience, if they say they want to add headshots then i'm cool with them adding headshots. If later down the line, they decide it was a bad decision then so be it but I don't think we should try to tell them what their tech can or can't do.