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Would you like to see headshots in the final version of the game.

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Comments

  • Kalez said:
    Aiming with a bow from a 100m is an advantage melee won’t have. Yet should a sword swing hit multiple hotboxes?
    This brings up an interesting debate I had a while ago while playing a table top game. The game itself had hit locations and armor locations.. like hitting someone in the head and they didn't have a helmet on, would do a lot of damage.. Just ans an example..
    My side of the debate, and backed up by the devs of that game.. was that if a target or player were caught in a fireball.. the fireball would hit all locations so damage is adjusted per the least-protected area of the body.
    Not saying it will be like that in Ashes; just your post brought up those memories about hitting multiple hit locations at once.
  • I am a programmer. And yes. It can be that demanding. Drops mic. 
    Yea....I am one too and while it does cost something i don't think it's as bad as you think. As i pointed out, the developers on this game set a world record of 1,158 players in one fight which includes vehicles and other deployables. It's a little higher then 200 players you didn't think the game could handle. 

  • The main reason I'm currently not a fan of head shots is the incentive it brings to introduce AIMbot software which FPS games have yet to stamp out themselves.
  • I don't know how much more of an incentive it will be as people who might use aimbots would probably already have a incentive because the game requires aiming. 

    In other FPS games, you log in and you are playing the game. Don't have to build up your account at all. Head shots are also pretty much an auto win. 

    In ashes, you need to spend time leveling up your character's class and other progressions. If you turn on an aim bot then you risk losing that progression and time spent.

    Hitting a aimbot also is not an insta win like in other shooters. It sounds like headshots will just be crits so it makes you stronger but you can be countered, possibly by class and gear but most definitely by numbers. 

    On top of the risk of being banned, if the server figures it out before the ban hammer finds you, there are also social repercussions for both you and anyone who chooses to play with you. Using any kind of hack, no matter how small, is an easy way to get the server against you, your guild, and your alliance.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2018
    I would argue the incentive is reversed, there is more an incentive in Ashes than in your traditional FPS.  

    In an FPS game, it's one and done.  In an MMO you're right, you have to build up.. and you have more to gain by "winning" than you do in an FPS which effectively resets per game.  Ashe's is persistent meaning the benefits of your cheating last longer, you realize more from it.  There is a greater incentive to use them than in an FPS and I would also argue would be harder to track down.   Stated another way, you can realize the fruits of your cheating far longer in a persistent world than in one that resets quickly.  Think of how many battles/sieges/skirmishes you could turn the tides on with head shots.

    Your social argument doesn't work, never has.. never will.  It's a pie in the sky argument that in practice simply doesn't work.  In nearly every MMO, where people can gain an advantage, they will do it.  Period.  We're really only arguing about how widespread it will be.  

    Finally while we don't have specifics on how effective headshots will be, they would HAVE to be more effective than you are letting on.  If you are going to balance a manual headshot vs. a tab target baked in stats, the manual head shot would theoretically have to be strong enough to incentive use over tab target.. otherwise whats the point? 

    If you're arguing that getting headshots is no big deal then yes, in that argument aimbots will be no big deal.  But if that's the case that severely diminishes the prospect of using action to begin with.



  • Then just think about how much less complicated it is to deal with an MMO FPS that is purpose built to handle this exact scenario vs a game that is built to be an RPG with far more elements in the actual game.
    "A game that is built for it" Soooo, they are using an engine that is primarily built for fps games and are building those mechanics into it from the start, making a game, built for it. I am getting less worried by the minute. Looks like they are doing everything right.
  • Problem is, everything you gained wither it's by cheating or not is lost once caught. So the more effort you put into the game, the more you lose. Yes, you might be able to gain something in pvp with cheats but will it be worth losing it, along with everything else you have worked for when you get caught. If you want to play again, you will probably have to spend months working a new character up to start again.

    I have seen it work. In darkfall, some players were using wall hacks. As the community caught on, everyone would gang up on the them and anyone they were with. They floated around to a few alliances but stuck alone and couldn't do much in the game.

    Yes, they would be stronger but i'm saying there could be ways around it.

    They have said they want a decent TTK so that skill and tactics have a chance to play a role in combat. This makes me think you probably aren't going to be killing people with a few headshots.

    Headshots are also only useful for classes/builds that make use of weapons that can have headshots, most likely weapons like bows and wonds. Probably wont have the same advantage across all classes and builds (i don't think i can headshot with my sword).

    We know there will be a rock, paper, scissors approach to class balance so a counter class would still have some advantages while fighting them. Can't really headshot while stun locked or i'm using a shield skill that deflects damage.

    One of my arguments wasn't as much that headshots aren't a big deal but the fact that that the game requiring aiming is already an incentive for hackers to hack. I was questioning how much more of an incentive are headshots.
  • Good points, I still disagree but good points.

    I just want to call out one point though re: Darkfall.  The little research I did revealed that wall hacking and cheats in general were far more prevalent than just a couple of individuals.  To rectify the problem required waves of bans.  In other words while what you are saying may be true that if you could prove some individuals were using them the player base would harp him/her... it appears that did little to stop waves of people from using the hacks.
  • Problem is, everything you gained wither it's by cheating or not is lost once caught. So the more effort you put into the game, the more you lose. Yes, you might be able to gain something in pvp with cheats but will it be worth losing it, along with everything else you have worked for when you get caught. If you want to play again, you will probably have to spend months working a new character up to start again.

    I have seen it work. In darkfall, some players were using wall hacks. As the community caught on, everyone would gang up on the them and anyone they were with. They floated around to a few alliances but stuck alone and couldn't do much in the game.

    Yes, they would be stronger but i'm saying there could be ways around it.

    They have said they want a decent TTK so that skill and tactics have a chance to play a role in combat. This makes me think you probably aren't going to be killing people with a few headshots.

    Headshots are also only useful for classes/builds that make use of weapons that can have headshots, most likely weapons like bows and wonds. Probably wont have the same advantage across all classes and builds (i don't think i can headshot with my sword).

    We know there will be a rock, paper, scissors approach to class balance so a counter class would still have some advantages while fighting them. Can't really headshot while stun locked or i'm using a shield skill that deflects damage.

    One of my arguments wasn't as much that headshots aren't a big deal but the fact that that the game requiring aiming is already an incentive for hackers to hack. I was questioning how much more of an incentive are headshots.
    Would be interesting to have head (stun), body (general) and leg (snare) attack/defend skills for melee. Probably a different topic though.

    Hackers are going to hack and cheat anyway they can. If its not aim bots it will be memory mods or something else. Adapt or die.
  • I believe headshots would be a good thing to have, albeit a little situational. It adds a nice risk/reward balance. The head is harder to hit, more risk of missing your target altogether, but landing that perfect shot can feel very rewarding.
  • It will greatly depend on if having an aoe root from a mage, or tank and then having like 5-6 longbowers sniping heads from range is viable or not...
  • @Raeven Risk and reward you say.  Now if sniping really had a Risk I would agree but hiding on a roof and getting a crit on a crafter while they are pottering in their herb garden is not much of a risk.  Now if a head shot puts your action bar on a significant global cool down that could make it a risk.. 

    Sniper on a roof spends 5mins getting the perfect head shot lined up... its a success and said crafter's head is pierced and now nailed into the tree they were cutting down.  Snipers wanders over and relieves crafter of the wood they have been collecting.

    Same scenario crafter moves unexpectedly and the head shot misses.  bugger all the shooters skills on a cool down. snipper takes fire from the crossbow of homing missiles the crafter had secreted under their cloak.  I give you risk and reward lol.

    Unfortunately I cant see mechanics like this being possible.  So in most cases headshots will be only risky when trying to achieve when both parties are in combat and moving. In which case the risk vs a tab targeting attack or a much easier body shot in action combat is perfectly fair. 

    Hmmm here is an idea.  What if head shots only become active once both parties have committed to the fight??????

    Just an idea.
  • The issue with that is....Sniper climbs roof, snipes crafter for wood, Becomes corrupted, is now hunted down, climbs a roof, kills bounty hunters as they walk thru narrow streets, finally dies, drops all his gear...GG
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2018
    <f/ail>
    [Edit: Replied to the incorrect thread..... Nothing to see here.. :tongue: ]
  • The scenario you propose implies the headshot is a oneshot, and pitches a lonely crafter against a prepared opponent with the intent to murder this poor crafter. Do you think the outcome would be entirely different if murdering the crafter would take an extra shot?

    A solution for someone sniping from far away would be to make arrows have a suitable travel time, the further away the longer it takes for the arrow to land. This would assure it's harder to land a shot at long distance.

    I wonder if the devs could come up with a clever system to make this work smoothly.
  •   I like the idea of having multiple hit boxes.  It definitely adds a lot more depth to the action combat and it is their way of adding crits in the game for action.  As long as it can be balanced with tab target I'm for it. 
     
      It would be cool if they made it so you could target the different hit boxes with tab target as well.  Because crit is already baked into tab with a % they could make it so if someone tab targets a head, their crit goes up but their hit % goes way down as well.  If they have a leg hit box, hit% and damage could go down, but maybe it adds a small snare, like 5%.  Balancing would obviously be difficult but it would make combat more tactical and interesting.
  • Head shots definitely do not belong in an MMO. This game is also a mixture of tab target and action combat so that would not make sense. Technically if a mage threw a fireball at you or a lightning bolt..should you instantly die too?
  • Head shots definitely do not belong in an MMO. This game is also a mixture of tab target and action combat so that would not make sense. Technically if a mage threw a fireball at you or a lightning bolt..should you instantly die too?

    Head shots do not mean instant death.  Instant death is for the BR mode.  Head shots will be a crit, like crits you get with tab target as well.  My only question is what happens to players that have crit on their gear.  Does that stat become worthless with the action combat.
  • I won't play this game in tab target mode but I don't like the idea of different hitboxes in MMO's. I hope this won't turn the combat in something like the game ''For Honor'' has.
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