No fast travel, weight limits and blank maps.

No fast travel. Carry weight limit/inventory slot limits. No traditional map.

I feel like I have to constantly remind myself about these things and how dramatically they will impact how an MMO is played. Reading through some posts made me think others may also benefit from this reminder. 

Because of the fast travel and carry weight limit mechanics:
  • Zerging will be super hard to pull off
  • Finding out about dungeons and POIs will have to be through word of mouth (includes NPCs/quests)
  • You can find secrets in the world that you can keep to yourself (like farming spots etc)
  • Running dungeons will be a coordinated effort and will likely be local
  • The local economy is really local
  • Gathering resources will require a lot of traveling back and forth
  • Understanding the local region/map is super valuable
  • Forgetting items in your bank will suck
  • Forgetting to put items in your bank will equally suck
  • Dying and spawning far away will also suck
  • Planning out your path, stopping by a tavern to pick up quests etc will be important for efficiency
  • Organizing large PvP/PvE events will take time
  • Preparing for large PvP/PvE events will take even longer
What else will this impact? Share below!
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Comments

  • Good guilds with good leadership with great time management skills will become necessary.
  • Good guilds with good leadership with great time management skills will become necessary.
    Yeah and depending on the types of PvP conflict possible as a guild member you have to keep track of how far you are from guild POIs.
  • I hope the devs dont have things to restrictive, because people will get tired of it fast and leave the game.
  • @NightshadeRaven I don't think it will be. I'm not really even sure the word "restrictive" is appropriate here, just "different". It will take a bit of getting used to because it isn't very familiar for most people but I think it will actually be super rewarding and not at all restrictive.
  • I believe I heard that a Science based city will allow a type of fast travel, at it's highest tier.
    No fast travel and no maps.. I'm looking forward to these things. Been playing mmos since very early EQ1 days and games always felt better without them.. and to some degree, they even ruined games.
  • I miss the days of referring to player made maps on a browser to get around vs. in game maps and quest icons.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2018
    Shoklen said:
    I believe I heard that a Science based city will allow a type of fast travel, at it's highest tier.
    No fast travel and no maps.. I'm looking forward to these things. Been playing mmos since very early EQ1 days and games always felt better without them.. and to some degree, they even ruined games.
    Yes, a scientific metropolis will allow for fast travel between nodes under its ZOI, it will be a metro perk that needs to be allocated and built by the mayor. Some metros may decide not to build the network if there is a choice between it and another more/equally valuable perk that may be locked out by its construction. Imagine a set of zeppelin towers like WoW or similar. There will also be "faster" travel between regular nodes, just not scientific metros through a stable/carriage system. Details on node level requirements for that haven't been released. Or how much "faster" is.
  • Keep in mind certain realisms seem fun now (like weight limits)

    A few months or a year from now, you will be like "fuck why did I suggest the stupid weight limits.
    Very easy to bypass weight limits with some magic portal bag...Magic..

    In my game arrows don't use bows because long ago archers realise once they ran out of ammo they couldn't fight long battles.
    So enchanters put a spell on every bow made that creates arrows when drawn.
    Its really easy to remove boring realisms.

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2018
    No one "suggested" the weight limits.They have been part of the core mechanics since inception. The different pillars that the game is built around get removed and you just have another cookie-cutter WoW clone. If there is no weight limit, then people will just carry 10,000 logs over to the next town. There will be no conflict over caravans. Nodes will be able to advance unchecked because supply flows are not disrupted. Add in fast travel and mailing of items, the idea of a local based economy goes Poof!! in flash. You want easy, there are plenty of other games out there that make it easy. They tend to fail after awhile when the content whores burn through and then whine about how "There is a content drought now!" All of the different systems are there for a reason, they tie into other systems. Take out one of the core pillars of gameplay that they have thought out, and the whole thing collapses. Their job is to make it meaningful and fun. If a mechanic becomes too much of a chore, they will adjust. 
  • Keep in mind certain realisms seem fun now (like weight limits)

    A few months or a year from now, you will be like "fuck why did I suggest the stupid weight limits.
    Very easy to bypass weight limits with some magic portal bag...Magic..

    In my game arrows don't use bows because long ago archers realise once they ran out of ammo they couldn't fight long battles.
    So enchanters put a spell on every bow made that creates arrows when drawn.
    Its really easy to remove boring realisms.

    I don't think there will ever be such a thing like a magic bag to bypass weight limits.
    If you can carry around 100 tons of ore in you backpack (which is just stupid), then no one would use caravans.
    So the weight limit has not only the reason to be more realistic. It also ensures that everyone will use the caravan system and mules.


  • All I can say is who ever levels the profession that makes backpacks and bags will make a killing, though they will require someone to provide the materials to make said bags.

    There are going to be a number of systems that will hark back to older games and will take sometime to get accustomed to once again. There does need to be a balance though between mind numbing tedium and somewhat realistic game mechanics. 
  • Varkun said:
    All I can say is who ever levels the profession that makes backpacks and bags will make a killing, though they will require someone to provide the materials to make said bags.

    There are going to be a number of systems that will hark back to older games and will take sometime to get accustomed to once again. There does need to be a balance though between mind numbing tedium and somewhat realistic game mechanics. 
    Shhh that's my starting plan ;)
  • I really am okay with a weight limit to restrict the amount we can carry but i don't think that there should be bags with a slot limit as well. It should be one or the other. 
      As long as they make getting a donkey or mule easy and early on in the game I am fine with the combination of Donkeys for gathering and short haul transport and caravans for the long distance transport.
      What i really hope for is some kind of internal consistency in their game logic. What i mean by this is if i can levitate a 2 ton boulder and hurl it at you why cant i make my bag lighter? I think these kind of interaction are often overlooked in games. If i can cause effect A against a mob why cant I cause the same effect on a non-mob. I think IS really needs to think through these kind of tangential lines of logic and make the game truly unique.
  • Honestly I hope the game will feature the things you have mentioned. The most important thing for no fast travel and weight is that all those things will prevent to some extent zerg around best spots, dungeons, etc, because they will run out of supplies some time, or they will eventually get killed. To simply put it will be easier to stop zerging for other players.

    For no build in full map it will bring extra benefit for world exploration, because if you find anything, either you will be the only one knowing about it, or be one of the few (unless someone spoils it on some wiki or youtube for views, but for some time only few players will know about certain spots and locations). Map should draw itself when you explore it or players would have to draw it (imo drawing the map yourself is a bit too far, as players would put more time into remembering map then actually playing the game).
  • eimal said:
    Honestly I hope the game will feature the things you have mentioned. The most important thing for no fast travel and weight is that all those things will prevent to some extent zerg around best spots, dungeons, etc, because they will run out of supplies some time, or they will eventually get killed. To simply put it will be easier to stop zerging for other players.

    For no build in full map it will bring extra benefit for world exploration, because if you find anything, either you will be the only one knowing about it, or be one of the few (unless someone spoils it on some wiki or youtube for views, but for some time only few players will know about certain spots and locations). Map should draw itself when you explore it or players would have to draw it (imo drawing the map yourself is a bit too far, as players would put more time into remembering map then actually playing the game).
    Well your hopes and prayers have been answered. Unlike most of my other posts, this isn't speculation. All of those 3 points (no fast travel, weight/inventory space limits, no traditional world map) have all been confirmed budd ;).
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2018
    @Xontian
    Well making bags is a whole profession and there probably are ways (e.g. enchantments? base stats?) that can increase weight limits. Animal husbandry will also make strong mules :P.

    Also, I'm pretty sure for a game to be considered as an RPG of any kind, by law, you are required to give people more things that they want to but can't carry. Do you want Steven to go to jail? In a cell with tough men wearing his sandals? Such cruelty.
  • @UnknownSystemError what do they mena by No traditional world map though? Id they mean there is a fog of war coverage that we have to uncover i am fine with that, or do they mean there isn't going to be a world map at all and we have to map it out ourselves?

    IS really needs to start answering some of these questions. Instead of answering the same node questions every livestream. I have posted several mechanincs questions but they keep answering the low hanging fruit questions.
  • Xontian said:
    @UnknownSystemError what do they mena by No traditional world map though?
    "Since our maps don’t illuminate when a point of interest becomes active, Taverns act as a large source or regional information. A haunted tomb has been uncovered, a cave with kobolds (sound familiar, Tavern starters?) or a sprite-filled forest are all points of interest that will be passed by word of mouth in Taverns. Perhaps a more nefarious band of adventurers are spreading false rumors to trap others, but, you need to go out and adventure to solve or confront these rumors."

    There is fog of war and you can lift it, but if you want to see the POI on your map, you need to first discover it in person. So before you go to a dungeon for example, it won't show up on your map and you won't know it's there.
  • This will also bring back something I personally have missed for years in the mmorpg genre, MERCHANTING. Finally the glorious days of buying and selling goods for a profit will return(Ofcourse with risk involved) Making the players become more of a community of knowing people and getting to know people. Long gone will the days of feeling like playing a single player game when your friends aren't online. 
  • What else will this impact? Share below!

    Preparation, preparation, preparation !
    Be prepared ! dib dib dib ;)
    Only fools rush in will probably be the dying epitaph to this game.

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2018
    What else will this impact? Share below!

    Preparation, preparation, preparation !
    Be prepared ! dib dib dib ;)
    Only fools rush in will probably be the dying epitaph to this game.

    What if I wanna run in blind screeching "YOLO SWAGGER 420 BLAZIN TIME MUTHA FUKAS!!!" like a braindead monkey?

    EDIT: fixed a typo XD
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2018
    Varkun said:
    All I can say is who ever levels the profession that makes backpacks and bags will make a killing, though they will require someone to provide the materials to make said bags.
    If backpacks also had decay, that would be amazing. It would also keep those crafting classes that make such bags in business for.. well... ever.  :smile:
  • Shoklen said:
    If backpacks also had decay, that would be amazing. It would also keep those crafting classes that make such bags in business for.. well... ever.  :smile:
    Although I'd hate to find out what happens when your backpack runs out of durability mid gathering :P
  • Shoklen said:
    Varkun said:
    All I can say is who ever levels the profession that makes backpacks and bags will make a killing, though they will require someone to provide the materials to make said bags.
    If backpacks also had decay, that would be amazing. It would also keep those crafting classes that make such bags in business for.. well... ever.  :smile:
    There is no reason why this could not be a possibility, I mean you would be carrying it into combat. Things wear out and break, perhaps they might have a lesser rate of wear compared to weapons and armour, but why not if it keeps crafting relevant.

    I do hope that we get a journal that contains our world map, thus as we uncover the world and find points of interest we are able to put our own pins down with notes. Find an area to harvest make a note of it, while it will be exhausted one day it may return. We know as the node levels the map will change so going back and finding what has changed will be part of the fun.
  • Varkun said:
    Things wear out and break, perhaps they might have a lesser rate of wear compared to weapons and armour, but why not if it keeps crafting relevant.
    That's a bit contingent on the artisan tree and how specialized you get. If as a backpack crafter you are so deep in it that you can't do much else well then that's valid but if specializing in bags also allows for top end other stuff too, then you can remain relevant without bag durability decay (after all people make alts and new players join; will always need bags).

    Varkun said:
    I do hope that we get a journal that contains our world map, thus as we uncover the world and find points of interest we are able to put our own pins down with notes. Find an area to harvest make a note of it, while it will be exhausted one day it may return. We know as the node levels the map will change so going back and finding what has changed will be part of the fun.
    I'm sure we can put our own pins on the map but I was actually thinking of some journal functionality too for a specific purpose... I'll make some discussion post about it later.
  • I would prefer a game with magical bags that lower the weight of item and minimize things inside
     or if you'd be able to empty your scraps on your mule.(like currently planned?)

    The long afk rides to bank items every 20min make grinding really boring really fast...

    I also was intrigued by the idea of decaying bags or even stackable items you can fix bags with but then I asked why and thought it would make only little sense.
    Irl quality leather bags even without care last a lifetime and decaying bags would only be yet another thing to manage.

    Instead there could be backbags for different purposes, like herbs, tools, tool/weapon belts, ores, alchemy etc. As these all can benefit from different properties. This way you could also keep the bags ready with necessities in your storage.
    With backpack and belt there could be separate hand carried bags for extra weight that you need to drop before doing things with your hands.
    This way there would be demand for multiple bags and multiple bag types.

    In short they should decide between irl and fantasy approaches and imo stay away from mixing these when it comes to carrying.
    If there are disadvantages of irl there should also be advantages of irl.

  • I would prefer a game with magical bags that lower the weight of item and minimize things inside
     or if you'd be able to empty your scraps on your mule.(like currently planned?)

    The long afk rides to bank items every 20min make grinding really boring really fast...

    I also was intrigued by the idea of decaying bags or even stackable items you can fix bags with but then I asked why and thought it would make only little sense.
    Irl quality leather bags even without care last a lifetime and decaying bags would only be yet another thing to manage.

    Instead there could be backbags for different purposes, like herbs, tools, tool/weapon belts, ores, alchemy etc. As these all can benefit from different properties. This way you could also keep the bags ready with necessities in your storage.
    With backpack and belt there could be separate hand carried bags for extra weight that you need to drop before doing things with your hands.
    This way there would be demand for multiple bags and multiple bag types.

    In short they should decide between irl and fantasy approaches and imo stay away from mixing these when it comes to carrying.
    If there are disadvantages of irl there should also be advantages of irl.


    I do believe the bags for different purposes was mentioned sometime back in one of the live casts, finding it however. It will be interesting to finally see just how they plan to handle carrying, storage and banking. 
  • What else will this impact? Share below!

    Preparation, preparation, preparation !
    Be prepared ! dib dib dib ;)
    Only fools rush in will probably be the dying epitaph to this game.

    What if I wanna run in blind screeching "YOLO SWAGGER 420 BLAZIN TIME MUTHA FUKAS!!!" like a braindead monkey?

    EDIT: fixed a typo XD
    Hell you can do that. I want to see a youtube video though ! :D
  • Varkun said:
    Shoklen said:
    Varkun said:
    All I can say is who ever levels the profession that makes backpacks and bags will make a killing, though they will require someone to provide the materials to make said bags.
    If backpacks also had decay, that would be amazing. It would also keep those crafting classes that make such bags in business for.. well... ever.  :smile:
    There is no reason why this could not be a possibility, I mean you would be carrying it into combat. Things wear out and break, perhaps they might have a lesser rate of wear compared to weapons and armour, but why not if it keeps crafting relevant.

    I do hope that we get a journal that contains our world map, thus as we uncover the world and find points of interest we are able to put our own pins down with notes. Find an area to harvest make a note of it, while it will be exhausted one day it may return. We know as the node levels the map will change so going back and finding what has changed will be part of the fun.
    Memorable occasions are the ones where you say..
    ...'well hell I never expected that to happen!'

    What else could you possibly talk about at the inn ? :tongue:

  • What else will this impact? Share below!

    Preparation, preparation, preparation !
    Be prepared ! dib dib dib ;)
    Only fools rush in will probably be the dying epitaph to this game.

    What if I wanna run in blind screeching "YOLO SWAGGER 420 BLAZIN TIME MUTHA FUKAS!!!" like a braindead monkey?

    EDIT: fixed a typo XD
    Hell you can do that. I want to see a youtube video though ! :D
    It won't be from my perspective though :) and it would be posted to our guild youtube channel when we get around to making it.
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