NO invisible walls!!! (WalkMesh)

ArchivedUser

Azathoth said:

 I have never met anyone that wanted more invisible boundaries...

Rigamorti said:
They exist now in most MMOs.

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Azathoth said:
So, an open door to a home that you can not enter is bad because of the 'invisible' boundary preventing you from actually entering the home?

Rigamorti said:
Yes.

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Azathoth said:
But, if the door was closed, you would be fine with never being able to enter that building?

Rigamorti said:
I'm not sure why you are not getting this.  

This is not about doors.   This is not about buildings.  This is about solid air that makes no sense.

ArchivedUser

I get it, I'm just trying to determine where the line is, as you mentioned tents and windows in your first post. Clearly it's somewhere between, 'lazy development' and 'not being able to enter a tent."

It's the, if I can see it I should be able to go there, mentality that is a fuzzy line for me. Sure, being stopped on a path or in the middle of a wood line or swimming out at sea by nothing is annoying and sucks. Sometimes it's lazy development and sometimes it's the extent of how big they can make it (like open oceans in most video games now).

But not being able to enter an open tent... for me those two things don't mix because not going in the tent isn't preventing you from continuing on your path. It's a physical object you can see and walk around. Just because the tent doors are open to show use doesn't mean they have to take time to generate the inside of every open tent.

ArchivedUser

I hope they make a maze out of magical invisible walls in a corner of the map so people think it is an invisible boundary wall and the spaztastic people in this thread go RE RE REEEEEEE all the way home. Make sure there is no indicator showing you it is a maze. They have to make sure they put a sign at the end of it that says "Good job, now have fun going back!" and NOTHING ELSE. I would die of laughter if they did that just to hear people freak out about a "invisible boundary wall".

ArchivedUser

Invisible walls are already confirmed. Just look lo this py'rai house which was available in a preorder pack: 

ArchivedUser

Augentier said:

Invisible walls are already confirmed. Just look lo this py'rai house which was available in a preorder pack: 

Obviously glass was not invented at this point in time.

ArchivedUser

I cannot agree more. Invisible walls are one of my biggest gaming pet peeves. Unless you now, they're there for a reason, like in a wizard's tower or etc.

But just walking along and running into an invisible wall because the devs don't want you walking along a hill range... so frustrating.

ArchivedUser

Azathoth said:

It's the, if I can see it I should be able to go there, mentality that is a fuzzy line for me. Sure, being stopped on a path or in the middle of a wood line or swimming out at sea by nothing is annoying and sucks. Sometimes it's lazy development and sometimes it's the extent of how big they can make it (like open oceans in most video games now).

But not being able to enter an open tent... for me those two things don't mix because not going in the tent isn't preventing you from continuing on your path. It's a physical object you can see and walk around. Just because the tent doors are open to show use doesn't mean they have to take time to generate the inside of every open tent.

The objection is pretty clear. Walking into a wall that prevents further movement that isn't actually there or represented by anything in the game. It breaks immersion.

You are very suddenly confronted by the fact that there are areas coded off limits, (intentionally barred, or omitted from being created) and this information is thrown into your face. It is off-putting and frustrating. It reminds you that this is just a game and the boundaries are arbitrary, and that anything you potentially want to do or place you want to go may or may not even be available and that the whole thing is all a lie.

Not ideal.

ArchivedUser

Ravnodaus said:

I cannot agree more. Invisible walls are one of my biggest gaming pet peeves. Unless you now, they're there for a reason, like in a wizard's tower or etc.

But just walking along and running into an invisible wall because the devs don't want you walking along a hill range... so frustrating.

What if I want to jump off the tower ? or teleport onto it ? I think being smart and using your abilities to bypass a potential clusterfuck of enemies is nice 'w'

ArchivedUser

whitedude31 said:

I hope they make a maze out of magical invisible walls in a corner of the map so people think it is an invisible boundary wall and the spaztastic people in this thread go RE RE REEEEEEE all the way home. Make sure there is no indicator showing you it is a maze. They have to make sure they put a sign at the end of it that says "Good job, now have fun going back!" and NOTHING ELSE. I would die of laughter if they did that just to hear people freak out about a "invisible boundary wall".

You’re like the trolliest troll ever, aren’t you?

ArchivedUser

Atama said:

whitedude31 said:

I hope they make a maze out of magical invisible walls in a corner of the map so people think it is an invisible boundary wall and the spaztastic people in this thread go RE RE REEEEEEE all the way home. Make sure there is no indicator showing you it is a maze. They have to make sure they put a sign at the end of it that says "Good job, now have fun going back!" and NOTHING ELSE. I would die of laughter if they did that just to hear people freak out about a "invisible boundary wall".

You’re like the trolliest troll ever, aren’t you?

I am good at what I do

ArchivedUser

I would also dislike invisible walls, because as you said, it breaks immersion.

ArchivedUser

Invisible Walls: No.

I've had those moments of jumping, climbing and easing over landscape because I want to reach the top of a mountain, them *NOPE*

Nothing blocking a path I could make it up.

ArchivedUser

Azathoth said:

not going in the tent isn't preventing you from continuing on your path.
It's a physical object you can see and walk around. Just because the tent doors are open to show use doesn't mean they have to take time to generate the inside of every open tent.

Wrong.  If you don't get that, then I can't help you.  I have explained this many times.

ArchivedUser

I still believe, that we should be able to force entry into locked building via brute force. 
Walls? Throw some fireballs!
Doors? What do you have an axe equiped for?
Tents? Burn them to the ground and root throuh the ashes for the loot!

ArchivedUser

Damokles said:

I still believe, that we should be able to force entry into locked building via brute force. 
Walls? Throw some fireballs!
Doors? What do you have an axe equiped for?
Tents? Burn them to the ground and root throuh the ashes for the loot!

This is a different conversation.  

Yes, it would be nice to break stuff open or whatever.  How game breaking that could be is a conversation for another thread.

This is about open areas that suddenly become solid because of lazy programming. 

ArchivedUser

Damokles said:

I still believe, that we should be able to force entry into locked building via brute force. 
Walls? Throw some fireballs!
Doors? What do you have an axe equiped for?
Tents? Burn them to the ground and root throuh the ashes for the loot!

I like the idea of fully destructible environments, and in a game where we influence content through our actions it seems especially appropriate.  However something like that is unfortunately beyond the scope of what this game is trying to do.  If they started adding systems that ambitious this would probably turn into Star Citizen and never get released.

ArchivedUser

rigamorti said:

Damokles said:

I still believe, that we should be able to force entry into locked building via brute force. 
Walls? Throw some fireballs!
Doors? What do you have an axe equiped for?
Tents? Burn them to the ground and root throuh the ashes for the loot!

This is a different conversation.  

Yes, it would be nice to break stuff open or whatever.  How game breaking that could be is a conversation for another thread.

This is about open areas that suddenly become solid because of lazy programming. 

I know that it was a bit out of the context, I just wanted to throw it in there ;^)
Concerning the invisible walls: I hate them too.
But most of the time, they are just the most effective way to close a bit off.
A good way to go around them on the open see would be that they implement the same thing that Blizzard did in WoW. You get teleported or faint, after you enter an area, where you dont belong.
It works good in games like Battlefield and WoW. Where they dont want you to go into certain areas (leave the battleground or enter zones, which are not finished)

ArchivedUser

Damokles said:

Concerning the invisible walls: I hate them too.
But most of the time, they are just the most effective way to close a bit off.

Rigamorti said:
No, the best way is to simply put a solid object there, so it is not an invisible wall.

Let's say you get to the edge of a map and there is no way a player can get to go any further.  Put a magical barrier, a great wall, a huge mountain, a large cliff that will kill you if you jump off,  a poisonous cloud that kills you as you enter, etc.

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Damokles said:
A good way to go around them on the open sea would be that they implement the same thing that Blizzard did in WoW. You get teleported or faint, after you enter an area, where you don't belong.

Rigamorti said:
The ocean is another matter.  A good way to stop people from swimming out forever is sea monsters kill you, like slaughter fish or sharks, drowning, or like you said, start to lose consciousness and wind up on shore or just die.

Frankly, the best games let you go from one place to another in water.  If they have to stop you, personally I hope there are real monsters you can fight that get tougher and tougher the further you go out from shore.

ArchivedUser

@Rigamorti that kind of blocks are the best ones.
To me it is also important for creative map borders and limits to have a story when unlocked.

Having a climbable mountain on which u face invisible wall on top just feels lousy.
They should be piranhas a science node find repellent for or sea monsters you learn to hide from, like in ur example.
That kind of stuff makes a game feel polished.

ArchivedUser

Blackhearted said:

@Rigamorti that kind of blocks are the best ones.
To me it is also important for creative map borders and limits to have a story when unlocked.

Having a climbable mountain on which u face invisible wall on top just feels lousy.
They should be piranhas a science node find repellent for or sea monsters you learn to hide from, like in ur example.
That kind of stuff makes a game feel polished.

Thanks.  I hope the devs are listening. 

ArchivedUser

Ahh what you are describing here in 3D design terms is called WalkMeshes or a WalkMesh issue.

Almost all 3D Frameworks take terrain, and using a calculation based on slope angles and/or gravity, calculate what is known as a walk mesh.  This is actualy an invisible object which sit's on the terrain object. Typically it has the exact same vertices as the terrain, in the area's that calculate out as walkable, but has no vertices in the area's which are non walkable.

The issue being described here occurs when you place a building, or tent or other object on top of the terrain.  These items tend to have their own walk meshes, or not, as cases warrant.  Once placed, the area's walk mesh needs to be rebaked (Re-calculated) to include the new items, and seam them to the terrains walk mesh.  That seam or stitching, can break at times, if the walk mesh of the building, and the terrain, do not overlap properly.  For example if you place a building just slightly too high, and its walk mesh does not intersect the terrain completely, when the rebake occurs, you get what people perceive as an invisible wall. It's actualy just an area where something did not intersect the terrain correctly for walkmesh rebaking.

Definitely something that should be reported, as it could be a placement issue, or sometimes a fault seaming algorithm.  If you use the term WalkMesh in the issue instead of invisible walls, it might help get that to the teams which deal with the holes in the terrain to object stitching/seaming processes.

ArchivedUser

dmgavin said:

Ahh what you are describing here in 3D design terms is called WalkMeshes or a WalkMesh issue.

Definitely something that should be reported, as it could be a placement issue, or sometimes a fault seaming algorithm.  If you use the term WalkMesh in the issue instead of invisible walls, it might help get that to the teams which deal with the holes in the terrain to object stitching/seaming processes.

Thank you for that information. 

I changed the title a bit.

ArchivedUser

I wonder if mages can make an invisible wall to act as a shield to deflect arrows or other physical items. could be a interesting idea

ArchivedUser

nagash said:

I wonder if mages can make an invisible wall to act as a shield to deflect arrows or other physical items. could be a interesting idea

Well we do already have the "Bullwark" skill so it is pretty realistic to say that it could be a possibility that they will have something in that direction.
It also could be that they will give that to summoners. Maybe Brood Warden or Keeper.

ArchivedUser

Damokles said:

nagash said:

I wonder if mages can make an invisible wall to act as a shield to deflect arrows or other physical items. could be a interesting idea

Well we do already have the "Bullwark" skill so it is pretty realistic to say that it could be a possibility that they will have something in that direction.
It also could be that they will give that to summoners. Maybe Brood Warden or Keeper.

It just keeps me waiting for alpha 2 and all the classes ^^

ArchivedUser

nagash said:

Damokles said:

nagash said:

I wonder if mages can make an invisible wall to act as a shield to deflect arrows or other physical items. could be a interesting idea

Well we do already have the "Bullwark" skill so it is pretty realistic to say that it could be a possibility that they will have something in that direction.
It also could be that they will give that to summoners. Maybe Brood Warden or Keeper.

It just keeps me waiting for alpha 2 and all the classes ^^

I feel the same way xD