Ashes is a PvX game. When core game play includes node sieges, castle sieges, caravan raids and monster coin events - final lore boss is not a thing. Especially not when new bosses are spawned after new buildings are built as nodes develop and re-develop.
Core game play imo is raids, PvE encounters that need to be unlocked/triggered through the node system. After all, Steven said "We want as many people as possible to experience the main server Narrative" not we want people to forever fight over castles and caravans. Also, gear is obtained through PvE content or crafted requiring materials obtained through PvE content. The opinion I just provided is just as valid as yours. Yes, opinion, because the reality is that it is a PvX game as you mentioned which means the "core gameplay" involves PvE PvP and crafting.
Your description of what you call "core gameplay" is not a description, it is your opinion. Based on which you conclude that there is no final lore boss when we have little to no information on lore. It's essentially like saying the chicken most definitely came before the egg, but I can just as easily tell you the egg came first.
You seem to think that I said core gameplay is PvP. I did not. I said that new mobs are unlocked as Nodes are developed and redeveloped differently, therefore, there is no such thing as a "final lore boss" because the lore is not static and the lore and the mobs and mob bosses continue to change as we develop and re-develop nodes. And we have Monster Coin events and castle sieges in addition to all of the above. Leaders of Metropolises and castles are also lore bosses. It's not chicken v egg scenario at all.
You seem to think that I said core gameplay is PvP. I did not. I said that new mobs are unlocked as Nodes are developed and redeveloped differently, therefore, there is no such thing as a "final lore boss" because the lore is not static and the lore and the mobs and mob bosses continue to change as we develop and re-develop nodes. And we have Monster Coin events and castle sieges in addition to all of the above. Leaders of Metropolises and castles are also lore bosses. It's not chicken v egg scenario at all.
Thanks for the clarification. The way I read it came off as such Cheers.
@Atama this isnt specifically towards you, you were just the last one in the discussion of this specific line of dialogue.
open world pvp isnt really a bar brawl, that would imply that open world pvp occurs for no rational reason. caravans have specifics reasons for its pvp, sieges have multiple reasons for it to occur(want to replace that node with another node, to make your node the new economic center).
However to imply that there will be no overall strategy in how to set up those events, like ambushes(obviously not in sieges) and tactical placement of units. the big pvp events in the open world will require an entire set of skills including mechanics.
@Atama this isnt specifically towards you, you were just the last one in the discussion of this specific line of dialogue.
open world pvp isnt really a bar brawl, that would imply that open world pvp occurs for no rational reason. caravans have specifics reasons for its pvp, sieges have multiple reasons for it to occur(want to replace that node with another node, to make your node the new economic center).
However to imply that there will be no overall strategy in how to set up those events, like ambushes(obviously not in sieges) and tactical placement of units. the big pvp events in the open world will require an entire set of skills including mechanics.
Hey, bar brawls can have reasons too!
But if you don’t like that analogy, think of it more like a rumble between gangs. There’s a purpose, definitely, and there may be strategy too. But you’re not talking about “the best of the best” fighting, just two groups of people trying to kill each other. That’s what open world PvP tends to be like.
Compete about bosses? Do you mean one group fighting a boss while another group trains the healers? This does not work, the group fighting the boss will always be at a severe dissadvantage. All games that implemented this have failed badly. You dont compete for bosses you wipe the boss fighting group in cycles til one group gives up.
World Bosses failed in what MMORPG?? I remember clearly in WoW during vanilla and Tera online they were some of the best PvE content the game had to offer. Not to mention if you paid attention to what was discussed not all "raiding" content is going to be open world bosses. Some "raiding" will take place in deep dungeons and places that are not easily accessible.
Instanced PvP and PvE is where pussies go to hide.
Because others who don't agree with me are bad and stupid, and they don't play the game right. Now I'm gonna call them names so everyonewill know how much *better* I am than them.
No, because it's a fact. People want that safe place to hide and not be bothered as they level, as they gear up with raid gear and then once they've emerged as a max level juggernaut they want to now fight people once they've safely gotten everything to make them the strongest. This is a PvX game. Which means that you will have to deal with PvP and PvE at the same time at all times. Part of that raid encounter is also dealing with other players. Part of being in a dungeon and spot for farming is that someone else might want that spot and it may be contested.
All instances do is take away pvp and make it a PvE game. So it no longer stays PvX, it's all about turning pvp off. That's what instances are. I'm fine with some here or there, especially if it's the end result of a long quest which you more than likely had to do while the risk of other players were there. but to say that high end content should be instance is dumb. Instancing is the biggest pussy way out of PvP there is. That's not opinions, that's all fact. You're hiding in a zone specifically created for you or your group or your raid completely exempt from pvp? Yeah. That's not what this game is trying to be.
Its a "fact". No. I'm more interested in instance because it OFFERS a different experience. This whole pussy argument is as dumb. Everyone who wants group pvp is a pussy because they can't 1v1. 1v1 me bruh! I'll rek ur shit m8. Fuck you laggy asshole. Bet you cheated to beat me.
I like arena based PvP, but I sure hope the PvP still takes place in the same world.
I don't want players to be transferred to some other world where they do their PvP. I want PvP to take place in actual arenas in the game world where people can even buy tickets to sit and watch the matches.
I enjoy pvp however I do hope they instance some stuff or this will turn into the next Archeage where 2 zerg guilds control everything and everyone and if you want to fight a boss pay said zerg guild to do so if not then fight said boss till almost dead and said zerg guild will come in wipe you and kill off the boss and you just spend all that time for nothing. Zerg guilds ruin most mmorpgs so I am curious how they are going to handle guilds and alliances being you can control castles in AOC and are rewarded well for holding them or will it be like Archeage where they are all controlled by one guild lol
I enjoy pvp however I do hope they instance some stuff or this will turn into the next Archeage where 2 zerg guilds control everything and everyone and if you want to fight a boss pay said zerg guild to do so if not then fight said boss till almost dead and said zerg guild will come in wipe you and kill off the boss and you just spend all that time for nothing. Zerg guilds ruin most mmorpgs so I am curious how they are going to handle guilds and alliances being you can control castles in AOC and are rewarded well for holding them or will it be like Archeage where they are all controlled by one guild lol
Then you have never met a true determined zerg. We didnt have the money to fly all the way in WoW retail. And we still made the treck into the Hillsbrad Foothills, and we still marched our asses up there to fight some horlders! A true zerg-mob just needs two things: 1. Enough mass 2. Determination
Then you have never met a true determined zerg. We didnt have the money to fly all the way in WoW retail. And we still made the treck into the Hillsbrad Foothills, and we still marched our asses up there to fight some horlders! A true zerg-mob just needs two things: 1. Enough mass 2. Determination
@Damokles I agree that even without fast travel you can´t prevent people from gathering to make a zerg. But that needs determination and time. I think the idea in AoC is not to fully prevent a zerg. Its more to discourage from zerging and to prevent a perpetual zerg. (Sometimes i think zergs can be fun)
If you die during the zerg you respawn somewhere distant and have to walk a while to get back to that zerg without fast travel. Thats another level of determination needed to maintain a zerg for a long period of time.
Then you have never met a true determined zerg. We didnt have the money to fly all the way in WoW retail. And we still made the treck into the Hillsbrad Foothills, and we still marched our asses up there to fight some horlders! A true zerg-mob just needs two things: 1. Enough mass 2. Determination
@Damokles I agree that even without fast travel you can´t prevent people from gathering to make a zerg. But that needs determination and time. I think the idea in AoC is not to fully prevent a zerg. Its more to discourage from zerging and to prevent a perpetual zerg. (Sometimes i think zergs can be fun)
If you die during the zerg you respawn somewhere distant and have to walk a while to get back to that zerg without fast travel. Thats another level of determination needed to maintain a zerg for a long period of time.
Then you have never met a true determined zerg. We didnt have the money to fly all the way in WoW retail. And we still made the treck into the Hillsbrad Foothills, and we still marched our asses up there to fight some horlders! A true zerg-mob just needs two things: 1. Enough mass 2. Determination
What I meant and said is that the zergs with the magnitude (via rapid congregation) and frequency (with high mobility) that other games have will be virtually impossible. And then I said zergs are limited by how fast they can congregate and how fast they can travel, clearly understanding that they can still occur but would be highly limited in their effectiveness by those two things.
Sigh look, nobody is claiming that AoC will resolve every problem 100%. But they are aware of what makes some of the current popular mmos frustrating and have some plans and ideas to limit those things. Will this appeal to everyone? No. Will it be super effective? We'll see. But you are not proving anything but commenting "lol no they can't prevent that", it is not productive in any shape or form.
@NeuroGuy I dont know why you took me as an example, but here we go. I only said something about your comment because you said that zerging was "virtually impossible".
Zergs dont always rely on high mobility. We dont even know how long it would take from one smaller node (the staging point of an invasion of a zerg for example) to the next smaller enemy node. Shure, it would be nice to have flight paths or instant travel. Does it stop us? Hell no!
Another thing that you forgot to think about where ground mounts. They will cut the travel time in half, and if they dont have to protect a caravan, then they will be even faster.
Sigh look, nobody said that zergs where going to be easy. But you and many more people forget how fkn THICKHEADED AND IDIOTIC PEOPLE CAN BE! xD If they want to march into enemy territory in a big blob then they wont be stopped from things like distance. Mobmentality will always triumph.
I gave two good point in my older post: Enough mass and determination, which you didnt counter, but just wrote that my comment "is not productive". Nothing in these forums is "productive" because we can only speculate. We can only hope and help others find information about things, that they dont understand. Zergs arent about "productivity" and they arent "efficient" or "effective". They are a mentality. They are something that bored people will do.
@Damokles Again, you are responding as if I said zerging is impossible when I included the qualifier "as it is in other games" and go on to explain what I mean by that. I also understand zergs can still occur, as I explicitly stated.
In any case though, I don't know why you took my comment as a personal attack on yourself. I just said your comment to mine didn't reflect what I said and it was not productive. I have more unproductive posts than productive ones lol, no need to get upset. Cheers budd
Setting up a zerg to prevent a raid of 40 people from killing a boss in open world seems highly unlikely. In addition to the zerg having to gather and to travel there quickly enough, theyd need to be strong enough to beat the raid.
I hope there will be both instanced and open world hard PvE content because they offer a breeze of fresh air and freedom.
For PvP arenas I hope there will be an physical arena in the town outskirts that still is an instance and crossmatches you or your team with the arenas in other towns. When you find a match you walk physically into the arena, while still keeping the matches safe from interruptions. I base this opinion on getting actual server wide competition and leaderboards. Crossmatching towns because if you were on the other side of the map and your friend came online to PvP, an hour of travelling every time to a specific node would discourage the activity.
Caravans, sieges and other such activities they may have in mind make perfect sense to be located in the open world.
What I meant and said is that the zergs with the magnitude (via rapid congregation) and frequency (with high mobility) that other games have will be virtually impossible. And then I said zergs are limited by how fast they can congregate and how fast they can travel, clearly understanding that they can still occur but would be highly limited in their effectiveness by those two things.
Sigh look, nobody is claiming that AoC will resolve every problem 100%. But they are aware of what makes some of the current popular mmos frustrating and have some plans and ideas to limit those things. Will this appeal to everyone? No. Will it be super effective? We'll see. But you are not proving anything but commenting "lol no they can't prevent that", it is not productive in any shape or form.
No, it wouldn't. Castes (and other nodes) ain't going nowhere. They just come here at x, and smash. No mobility or fast travel needed, just pure numbers.
Caravans are same. They will definitely be slower than players, while moving on a know path, so they can just go here, kill and leave. Again no mobility needed.
Even those bosses will going to spawn in predetermined points at set time. If someone want to kill PvE players here with a zerg, they have more than enough time to walk here and slaughter them.
Though it's not very likely to happen with the current broken corruption system. Not cause it would be impossible, but cause there wouldn't be that much players, who would want to get corruption for no reward in exchange...
Caravans don't move on a known path and they don't embark at a known time.
Bosses don't spawn at predetermined spots at predetermined times.
Node sieges and castle sieges are objective based, so you can't just zerg them. But since the sieges happen at a set time, no telling whether the defenders or attackers will be the larger group during any specific siege.
Some of the best PvP i've experienced have been against Zerg Guilds. It is the pinnacle of the PvX experience when my twenty man raid group stomps two or three raids worth of Zerg people because most Zerg guilds lack skill and coordination. There is room for all kinds of PvP in Ashes or i wouldn't be here. I dont mind levelling in arenas but i do not level to top level to go into arenas. The notion chills me to the bone. The idea is to go up against vast challenges not be mollycuddled to death.
Another one of my favourite PvP battles was in a public dungeon where we fought players and NPCs ultimately killing the players and the NPCs together. These moments are rare but i live for challenges and do not want such aspects to be disabled.
I dont see a problem here......... Guild A goes in the dungeon to clear it, historical data suggests its a contested dungeon.. Guild A because their not a bunch of idiots post a 10 man screen at the front of the dungon... if someone attacks they will be informed and act accordingly...... Guild B attacks is ambused by 10 people they lose some folks along the way, guild A is alarmed and engages with the remainder of the attacking force......
Or maybe this opens a new business venture for some mercenary guilds to protect raids and caravans.....
Really dont see a problem here, sounds like everyone wants to play WOW....
Comments
I did not.
I said that new mobs are unlocked as Nodes are developed and redeveloped differently, therefore, there is no such thing as a "final lore boss" because the lore is not static and the lore and the mobs and mob bosses continue to change as we develop and re-develop nodes. And we have Monster Coin events and castle sieges in addition to all of the above. Leaders of Metropolises and castles are also lore bosses.
It's not chicken v egg scenario at all.
Cheers.
open world pvp isnt really a bar brawl, that would imply that open world pvp occurs for no rational reason. caravans have specifics reasons for its pvp, sieges have multiple reasons for it to occur(want to replace that node with another node, to make your node the new economic center).
However to imply that there will be no overall strategy in how to set up those events, like ambushes(obviously not in sieges) and tactical placement of units. the big pvp events in the open world will require an entire set of skills including mechanics.
But if you don’t like that analogy, think of it more like a rumble between gangs. There’s a purpose, definitely, and there may be strategy too. But you’re not talking about “the best of the best” fighting, just two groups of people trying to kill each other. That’s what open world PvP tends to be like.
You even commented on the discussion: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/40985/no-fast-travel-weight-limits-and-blank-maps/p1
We didnt have the money to fly all the way in WoW retail. And we still made the treck into the Hillsbrad Foothills, and we still marched our asses up there to fight some horlders!
A true zerg-mob just needs two things:
1. Enough mass
2. Determination
I think the idea in AoC is not to fully prevent a zerg. Its more to discourage from zerging and to prevent a perpetual zerg. (Sometimes i think zergs can be fun)
If you die during the zerg you respawn somewhere distant and have to walk a while to get back to that zerg without fast travel. Thats another level of determination needed to maintain a zerg for a long period of time.
Hmm I take the time to carefully word myself so I'm not misunderstood and yet here we are...
What I meant and said is that the zergs with the magnitude (via rapid congregation) and frequency (with high mobility) that other games have will be virtually impossible. And then I said zergs are limited by how fast they can congregate and how fast they can travel, clearly understanding that they can still occur but would be highly limited in their effectiveness by those two things.
Sigh look, nobody is claiming that AoC will resolve every problem 100%. But they are aware of what makes some of the current popular mmos frustrating and have some plans and ideas to limit those things. Will this appeal to everyone? No. Will it be super effective? We'll see. But you are not proving anything but commenting "lol no they can't prevent that", it is not productive in any shape or form.
I dont know why you took me as an example, but here we go.
I only said something about your comment because you said that zerging was "virtually impossible".
Zergs dont always rely on high mobility. We dont even know how long it would take from one smaller node (the staging point of an invasion of a zerg for example) to the next smaller enemy node. Shure, it would be nice to have flight paths or instant travel. Does it stop us? Hell no!
Another thing that you forgot to think about where ground mounts. They will cut the travel time in half, and if they dont have to protect a caravan, then they will be even faster.
Sigh look, nobody said that zergs where going to be easy. But you and many more people forget how fkn THICKHEADED AND IDIOTIC PEOPLE CAN BE! xD
If they want to march into enemy territory in a big blob then they wont be stopped from things like distance. Mobmentality will always triumph.
I gave two good point in my older post: Enough mass and determination, which you didnt counter, but just wrote that my comment "is not productive". Nothing in these forums is "productive" because we can only speculate. We can only hope and help others find information about things, that they dont understand.
Zergs arent about "productivity" and they arent "efficient" or "effective". They are a mentality. They are something that bored people will do.
Dont take the high road with me.
Again, you are responding as if I said zerging is impossible when I included the qualifier "as it is in other games" and go on to explain what I mean by that. I also understand zergs can still occur, as I explicitly stated.
In any case though, I don't know why you took my comment as a personal attack on yourself. I just said your comment to mine didn't reflect what I said and it was not productive. I have more unproductive posts than productive ones lol, no need to get upset. Cheers budd
I hope there will be both instanced and open world hard PvE content because they offer a breeze of fresh air and freedom.
For PvP arenas I hope there will be an physical arena in the town outskirts that still is an instance and crossmatches you or your team with the arenas in other towns.
When you find a match you walk physically into the arena, while still keeping the matches safe from interruptions.
I base this opinion on getting actual server wide competition and leaderboards.
Crossmatching towns because if you were on the other side of the map and your friend came online to PvP, an hour of travelling every time to a specific node would discourage the activity.
Caravans, sieges and other such activities they may have in mind make perfect sense to be located in the open world.
Bosses don't spawn at predetermined spots at predetermined times.
Node sieges and castle sieges are objective based, so you can't just zerg them.
But since the sieges happen at a set time, no telling whether the defenders or attackers will be the larger group during any specific siege.
No Corruption for sieges or caravan raids.
Another one of my favourite PvP battles was in a public dungeon where we fought players and NPCs ultimately killing the players and the NPCs together. These moments are rare but i live for challenges and do not want such aspects to be disabled.
Or maybe this opens a new business venture for some mercenary guilds to protect raids and caravans.....
Really dont see a problem here, sounds like everyone wants to play WOW....