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Cartography as an Artisan Class

Cartography


A hypothetical new artisan class.


Information about one surrounding is always valuable. This class takes this concept to its end conclusion. Cartography.


The world is unknown to players as they first enter. Those who have an adventuring spirit and wish to discover every nook and cranny of their world will be able to have a class that synergies well with that.


The new world is constantly in flux, with nodes developing (and de-leveling during wars), trade routes, resources specific spots, topographical maps for warfare, dungeon maps, and more this artisan class will be your guiding hand in telling you where to head to.


Skills

  • Creating general maps of surrounding (higher the level the more detail/larger on the map)

  • Shows caravan routes (and maybe which routes have high raiding to avoid)

  • Shows specific resource spots

  • Draw maps regarding dungeons

  • *From youtube* Treasure maps (if treasure maps are encrypted cartographers are able to decrypt it)

  • Warfare cartography: Can link (in guild chat or something) a map that cartographers can draw on (in-game) so to direct the flow of their guild in battles. Maybe even be able to show “waypoints”.

  • And more!


Where the original discussion was had.


#011 Ashes of Creation Discussion Round

https://youtu.be/ZaZ-93K84_4?list=UUa8p_tU0dJ37CCE0R0OX3wQ&t=1161



Thoughts on such a artisan class?


«1

Comments

  • This was a very interesting discussion but my thought is would there be enough for it to justify being a part of the artisan system. Perhaps it could be a separate skill line similar to how sailing ships will be handled with its own skills to choose from and specialize in.

    There might be specializations that allow the cartographer to make detailed maps of battlefields, another for oceans, resource, even dungeons, and ruins. If each of these was a specialization within a skill tree with enough points to only focus on one.   
  • Varkun said:
    This was a very interesting discussion but my thought is would there be enough for it to justify being a part of the artisan system. Perhaps it could be a separate skill line similar to how sailing ships will be handled with its own skills to choose from and specialize in.

    There might be specializations that allow the cartographer to make detailed maps of battlefields, another for oceans, resource, even dungeons, and ruins. If each of these was a specialization within a skill tree with enough points to only focus on one.   
    If they put some thought into it, i can see it having as wide and deep a system as any of the other artisan classes. Like you said specializations is one route, where depending on the type of cartographer you want to be you could spec further into that tree. 

    I'd be interested in any other ideas that could be added to it to make it a more fleshed out artisan class. 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited December 2018
    It would be really interesting in my opinion to include cartography as a artisan class.
    Maybe make it something more like a "Scribe", and make it a sub-profession tree.
    Scribes could make maps, magically binding contracts(player created quests?!?) or enchantments and runes, which you could use to create barriers etc.

    Maybe give them the ability to identify objects? (which would open another can of worms = unidentified objects could be interesting ;D)
  • Damokles said:
    It would be really interesting in my opinion to include cartography as a artisan class.
    Maybe make it something more like a "Scribe", and make it a sub-profession tree.
    Scribes could make maps, magically binding contracts(player created quests?!?) or enchantments and runes, which you could use to create barriers etc.

    Maybe give them the ability to identify objects? (which would open another can of worms = unidentified objects could be interesting ;D)
    Oh scribe as the umbrella and cartography focus is just one specialization that's interesting. 

    The contract aspect would  be interesting to see used in-game, i'd love to see some iteration of that. 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited December 2018

    I like this idea.

    Higher levels of Cartography could allow the mapmaker to include more information on the map.  This information could be revealed by mouse-over showing such things as:

    Areas of enchantment on the map

    Details of the mobs located on the map

    Information about the towns...mayor, guilds, buildings

    Information about buildings and their contents, spells, history, NPC locations and what the NPC does....

    I am sure the reader will think of many more possibilities.

    What would also be interesting is that the mapmaker could embue magic into the map.  For example, if the one looking at it was an enemy (guild, city, etc.) then the magic would not work or might show locations incorrectly.  While if the user of the map was a friend, it would show more.  Maybe some things on the map would only show up if the user had completed some quest (or a task for the cartographer) or reached a certain level.

    Maybe the mapmaker could put other spells on it, so that the map would self-destruct if opened in an enemy city, or if the bearer killed a guild member of the cartographer, or after two weeks.

    I think that there are all kinds of interesting possibilities, good idea!

    All the best, TT

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited December 2018
    Maybe they can make the map something you can equip ;D 
    Then we could have a "main map", where you can see the roads and cities (which everyone has) and then we have the crafted maps, where you can see more details (higher level maps give more details), which would fill in the blank spaces.
  • I definitely like the idea of cartographer as an artisan class or something similar, I think it would be nice if players could only see the map that they have explored and players who explored more (have filled out map) can sell theirs to others 'w'
  • I would find it funny if people could make false maps or treasure maps. Would add an interesting spin on a Guild War and sending out Scouts.
  • If the game intends to have player initiated quests, there could be cartographer quests like this:

     - get quest from mapmaker NPC, get box from NPC

    - go bury box of something up in some wilderness, make a map where it is

     - Give map to NPC

     - Player 2 gets quest from NPC and map, recovers something from wilderness, gets to keep it

     - Cartographer player gets reward from NPC.

    Certainly the quest could be more interesting than that, but having multiple players involved in both setting up and solving quests could go all kinds of ways.


  • Abasole said:
    I would find it funny if people could make false maps or treasure maps. Would add an interesting spin on a Guild War and sending out Scouts.
    I doubt it, it's an easy way for corrupted players to lure others into getting killed.
  • Abasole said:
    I would find it funny if people could make false maps or treasure maps. Would add an interesting spin on a Guild War and sending out Scouts.
    I doubt it, it's an easy way for corrupted players to lure others into getting killed.
    Yes but its a theme park world and a PvX. As a Roleplayer it would be a classic game if i could be lured into traps and even overcome some of these traps. I can appreciate most people aren't RP and would only consider it griefing though.
  • Such an evil mapmaker might also quickly gain a bad reputation.  I think both Autumn and Abasole are right...it would be an interesting twist.
  • Abasole said:
    Abasole said:
    I would find it funny if people could make false maps or treasure maps. Would add an interesting spin on a Guild War and sending out Scouts.
    I doubt it, it's an easy way for corrupted players to lure others into getting killed.
    Yes but its a theme park world and a PvX. As a Roleplayer it would be a classic game if i could be lured into traps and even overcome some of these traps. I can appreciate most people aren't RP and would only consider it griefing though.
    Well Corruption is a punishment system, I don't think Intrepid will do anything to give them opportunities to kill more and while bounty hunters can see where corrupted players are they aren't infinite either 'w'

    I personally don't mind getting ambushed or vice-versa (more likely I would be ambushing :3) but it's guaranteed to spark outrage from a good portion of the players.
  • Abasole said:
    Abasole said:
    I would find it funny if people could make false maps or treasure maps. Would add an interesting spin on a Guild War and sending out Scouts.
    I doubt it, it's an easy way for corrupted players to lure others into getting killed.
    Yes but its a theme park world and a PvX. As a Roleplayer it would be a classic game if i could be lured into traps and even overcome some of these traps. I can appreciate most people aren't RP and would only consider it griefing though.
    Well Corruption is a punishment system, I don't think Intrepid will do anything to give them opportunities to kill more and while bounty hunters can see where corrupted players are they aren't infinite either 'w'

    I personally don't mind getting ambushed or vice-versa (more likely I would be ambushing :3) but it's guaranteed to spark outrage from a good portion of the players.
    Yeah i'm still getting my head around the corruption system because i love to world PvP and it seems the corruption system will get in the way of pure world PvP. When i mentioned the potential for a 1200 verses 1200 fight in open world because someone was killed and more people turn up from both sides of the Alliance i was told expectations were too high and that PvP will have cooldowns. This shattered my idea of PvX but i recovered from the disappointment.

    I try not to speculate around PvP at the moment but i do try to liven the potential for world PvP up where i can. I understand that Honour is key to Steven's plan and i do believe that grief maps won't be a thing but i do like to speculate sometimes lol
  • Abasole said:
    Abasole said:
    Abasole said:
    I would find it funny if people could make false maps or treasure maps. Would add an interesting spin on a Guild War and sending out Scouts.
    I doubt it, it's an easy way for corrupted players to lure others into getting killed.
    Yes but its a theme park world and a PvX. As a Roleplayer it would be a classic game if i could be lured into traps and even overcome some of these traps. I can appreciate most people aren't RP and would only consider it griefing though.
    Well Corruption is a punishment system, I don't think Intrepid will do anything to give them opportunities to kill more and while bounty hunters can see where corrupted players are they aren't infinite either 'w'

    I personally don't mind getting ambushed or vice-versa (more likely I would be ambushing :3) but it's guaranteed to spark outrage from a good portion of the players.
    Yeah i'm still getting my head around the corruption system because i love to world PvP and it seems the corruption system will get in the way of pure world PvP. When i mentioned the potential for a 1200 verses 1200 fight in open world because someone was killed and more people turn up from both sides of the Alliance i was told expectations were too high and that PvP will have cooldowns. This shattered my idea of PvX but i recovered from the disappointment.

    I try not to speculate around PvP at the moment but i do try to liven the potential for world PvP up where i can. I understand that Honour is key to Steven's plan and i do believe that grief maps won't be a thing but i do like to speculate sometimes lol
    Eh there are no factions here so 'both sides of the alliance" don't really exist 'w'
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited December 2018
    Eh there are no factions here so 'both sides of the alliance" don't really exist 'w'
    Guilds can ally with 3 other Guilds and a max guild size is 300 people. In a Guild War you may in reality be fighting 4 guilds which should be a part of open world instead they say it isn't which completely negates the point of open world PvP. There will be little need for so many to be allied together because they can never all fight together. This says to me that PvX is a con term because there is no X. It'll all be regulated.
  • Abasole said:
    Eh there are no factions here so 'both sides of the alliance" don't really exist 'w'
    Guilds can ally with 3 other Guilds and a max guild size is 300 people. In a Guild War you may in reality be fighting 4 guilds which should be a part of open world instead they say it isn't which completely negates the point of open world PvP. There will be little need for so many to be allied together because they can never all fight together. This says to me that PvX is a con term because there is no X. It'll all be regulated.
    Ah guilds are different, I thought you meant factions like in wow the horde and alliance 'w' about the pvx I'm pretty sure it means that the game will focus on both pve and pvp not one exclusively, I think that open world pvp is sufficient since most people don't really mind not being able to engage in some kind of 500vs500 fight 'w'

    Also most of the big pvp will probably take place during node sieges :3
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited December 2018
    Ah guilds are different, I thought you meant factions like in wow the horde and alliance 'w' about the pvx I'm pretty sure it means that the game will focus on both pve and pvp not one exclusively, I think that open world pvp is sufficient since most people don't really mind not being able to engage in some kind of 500vs500 fight 'w'

    Also most of the big pvp will probably take place during node sieges :3
    I come from Open World PvP games and such fights occurred a lot during Guild Wars. We would Kill on sight and it would always escalate from a skirmish into an actual battle. Steven has said we may get 500 combatants or more but its not clear yet what the engine or MMO spine can achieve. As i say i'm not focussing on the PvP at the moment because of its limitations. The Developers are anti zerg but fighting agaisnt Zergs can be very rewarding. I don't want to dowse my enthusiasm for the game entirely but i hate instanced PvP.

    I ran a Bounty Hunter/Mercenary Guild in Age of Conan and will most likely get my open world kicks being a Bounty Hunter in Ashes.
  • What we need to do in the beta (or if we can arrange it with enough people in alpha) is get 2000+ people in a massive battle with fireworks from the mages and everything we can think of just to see if the servers hold :D
  • Abasole said:
    Ah guilds are different, I thought you meant factions like in wow the horde and alliance 'w' about the pvx I'm pretty sure it means that the game will focus on both pve and pvp not one exclusively, I think that open world pvp is sufficient since most people don't really mind not being able to engage in some kind of 500vs500 fight 'w'

    Also most of the big pvp will probably take place during node sieges :3
    I come from Open World PvP games and such fights occurred a lot during Guild Wars. We would Kill on sight and it would always escalate from a skirmish into an actual battle. Steven has said we may get 500 combatants or more but its not clear yet what the engine or MMO spine can achieve. As i say i'm not focussing on the PvP at the moment because of its limitations. The Developers are anti zerg but fighting agaisnt Zergs can be very rewarding. I don't want to dowse my enthusiasm for the game entirely but i hate instanced PvP.

    I ran a Bounty Hunter/Mercenary Guild in Age of Conan and will most likely get my open world kicks being a Bounty Hunter in Ashes.
    Oh well we will have to wait and see, I am not a fan of instanced pvp either but I'll roll with what I get from the devs 'w' 
  • I like this forum post  :D:D
  • Oh well we will have to wait and see, I am not a fan of instanced pvp either but I'll roll with what I get from the devs 'w' 
    Yeah the cool thing is there will only be one set of Armour to obtain. No PvE armour and PvP armour. Just PvX Armour (Yeah i said the dreaded PvX tag).
  • Abasole said:
    Oh well we will have to wait and see, I am not a fan of instanced pvp either but I'll roll with what I get from the devs 'w' 
    Yeah the cool thing is there will only be one set of Armour to obtain. No PvE armour and PvP armour. Just PvX Armour (Yeah i said the dreaded PvX tag).
    I really like that too, farming separate gear is annoying and divides the community in a way 'w'
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited December 2018
    Abasole said:
    Ah guilds are different, I thought you meant factions like in wow the horde and alliance 'w' about the pvx I'm pretty sure it means that the game will focus on both pve and pvp not one exclusively, I think that open world pvp is sufficient since most people don't really mind not being able to engage in some kind of 500vs500 fight 'w'

    Also most of the big pvp will probably take place during node sieges :3
    I come from Open World PvP games and such fights occurred a lot during Guild Wars. We would Kill on sight and it would always escalate from a skirmish into an actual battle. Steven has said we may get 500 combatants or more but its not clear yet what the engine or MMO spine can achieve. As i say i'm not focussing on the PvP at the moment because of its limitations. The Developers are anti zerg but fighting agaisnt Zergs can be very rewarding. I don't want to dowse my enthusiasm for the game entirely but i hate instanced PvP.

    I ran a Bounty Hunter/Mercenary Guild in Age of Conan and will most likely get my open world kicks being a Bounty Hunter in Ashes.
    Guilds can declare war on each other..just as the mayors of nodes can TMK.
    Corruption does not apply in this circumstance.
    You are a target of opportunity if you are legitimate enemies.
    But there are rules on declaring guilds wars that are seperate fro the node.
    You can not flag on fellow citizens for starters.

    Cannot flag on Party Members, Raid Members, Guild Members, Alliance Members
    https://aocwiki.net/PvP#Open_World

  • Guilds can declare war on each other..just as the mayors of nodes can TMK.
    Corruption does not apply in this circumstance.
    You are a target of opportunity if you are legitimate enemies.
    But there are rules on declaring guilds wars that are seperate fro the node.
    You can not flag on fellow citizens for starters.

    Cannot flag on Party Members, Raid Members, Guild Members, Alliance Members
    https://aocwiki.net/PvP#Open_World

    Yes but it doesn't get around the limitations of the system. Though Steven has said they will work to maximise potentials which i wait to see. The issue isn't so much as who i can and can't fight its the numbers that would be in a potential fight. We'll see what the final iteration brings.
  • *grabs the derailed post and drags it back to the proper discussion*

    Sea Charts. Ocean Currents, Shoals, Reefs, Sea Monster territory. Knowing where such things are can make or destroy one's ship and having routes planned out to take advantage of the currents can make up for wind blowing in the wrong direction.

    Afterall, going into "Uncharted Territory" was a thing of fear in the dark ages.
  • *grabs the derailed post and drags it back to the proper discussion*

    Sea Charts. Ocean Currents, Shoals, Reefs, Sea Monster territory. Knowing where such things are can make or destroy one's ship and having routes planned out to take advantage of the currents can make up for wind blowing in the wrong direction.

    Afterall, going into "Uncharted Territory" was a thing of fear in the dark ages.
    *Grabs the rails of the post and throws them into the sea*

    So.... unicorns ? 
  • I do hope that we will have ocean currents and prevailing (seasonal) wind patterns.  Water flowing downhill in rivers is pretty common in games, so ocean currents ought to be as well, and would certainly enhance the valye of a cartographer.
  • It got derailed because we didn't have an honest Cartographer. If only we were in game already :P
  • TauTau said:
    Water flowing downhill in rivers is pretty common in games, 

    Now i want a upwards flowing river ingame.... :)
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