The battle royal should be removed from Apocalypse

ArchivedUser

Remember when everyone was freaking out about the referral system?

Corruption system?

My.com?

This is the the flavor-of-the week "issue" for the community doom-sayers to grumble over. And by doing this, going off half-cocked, you blur up the discussion when a legitimate concern occurs because assholes like me roll up and go "remember when you all cried wolf?" 

ArchivedUser

Karthos said:

Remember when everyone was freaking out about the referral system?

Corruption system?

My.com?

This is the the flavor-of-the week "issue" for the community doom-sayers to grumble over. And by doing this, going off half-cocked, you blur up the discussion when a legitimate concern occurs because assholes like me roll up and go "remember when you all cried wolf?" 

pvp....though that's still something people cry about 'w'

ArchivedUser

Dygz said:

If people want to play the BR instead of the MMORPG, that is not a problem.

In the MMORPG, you don't really run dungeons just to run dungeons as in other MMORPGs. You run dungeons because the denizens of the dungeon are a threat to your node. So, most likely people will choose to defend their node over jumping into a BR session. Especially since a BR session only takes 20 minutes and can be done any time solo.

Ask someone who is currently playing the MMORPG to craft for you. Or wait for the person to craft whenever they are ready to craft. Pretty selfish to be expecting people to want to do what you want them to do whenever you want them to do it.
They might be choosing to escort a caravan or participate in a castle siege or gather some resources rather than dungeon delve or craft for you. Or they might choose to play the BR or play D&D or read a book.
Someone else choosing to play the BR instead of the MMORPG is not an issue.
It's an MMORPG - there will be plenty of other people for you to play with, but also...
Patience is a virtue.

They are going to be testing the mechanics of the BR, castle sieges and mob waves anyways. No reason not to package it for people who enjoy that as a separate game.
But has the bonus of giving the studio more money to develop the MMORPG.

You have the uncanny ability of missing the point... like every time. 

Let me use simple words: People will be playing a game other than this mmo we all paid for (not a mention of BR cash grab) to get rewards for this game (so much for pure sub-based game with cash shop). That separates the player base. That bad... 

I said that I don't have a problem with people playing BRs (or doing anything outside of this game using a simple assumption). I have a problem with this game deliberately separating their playerbase by dangling costumes and 'legendaries' in another game that they used our kickstarter money to fund even though it was never pitched. If they want to make a BR, it should have been with the profits from the completed mmo. I don't see why they are triple dipping. They have our sub, cash shop, and now the BR purchases. I don't know why they aren't putting the money from the monthly sales towards the damn game.

ArchivedUser

Loyheta said:

I have a problem with this game deliberately separating their playerbase by dangling costumes and 'legendaries' in another game that they used our kickstarter money to fund even though it was never pitched. If they want to make a BR, it should have been with the profits from the completed mmo. I don't see why they are triple dipping. They have our sub, cash shop, and now the BR purchases. I don't know why they aren't putting the money from the monthly sales towards the damn game.

Intrepid have made it their stance on NOT wanting a separated player base exceptionally clear, this has been their consistent defence against having separate RP servers.

Personally I'm still not convinced as to apocalypse continuing for ever post MMORPG release and would love to see a quote for it's expected continued existence.

ArchivedUser

Loyheta said:

You have the uncanny ability of missing the point... like every time. 

Let me use simple words: People will be playing a game other than this mmo we all paid for (not a mention of BR cash grab) to get rewards for this game (so much for pure sub-based game with cash shop). That separates the player base. That bad... 

I said that I don't have a problem with people playing BRs (or doing anything outside of this game using a simple assumption). I have a problem with this game deliberately separating their playerbase by dangling costumes and 'legendaries' in another game that they used our kickstarter money to fund even though it was never pitched. If they want to make a BR, it should have been with the profits from the completed mmo. I don't see why they are triple dipping. They have our sub, cash shop, and now the BR purchases. I don't know why they aren't putting the money from the monthly sales towards the damn game.

They are putting the money from the monthly sales towards the game.
Any more money they can get for work they are already doing means better assets more quickly.

The plan has always been for players to be able to play other Ashes of Creations games - besides just the MMORPG. 2 years ago, they were floating the idea of a MOBA. Easier and cheaper for them to just make the test environment into a BR and accept money from people who want to pay to play that.

They aren't really separating their playerbase. Rather they are incentivizing testers to test by offering rewards that can be used in the MMORPG - especially since it's BR gameplay. Earning points for rewards that can be used in the MMORPG will have me testing more sessions than if those rewards did not exist. I'm currently avoiding combat, but if kills are a weekly quest, I might actually engage in combat sometimes just to get that reward. That's not going to entice me to play Apocalypse instead of the MMORPG once the MMORPG launches because I want to play an MMORPG.

If I determine that the MMORPG is too PvP-centric, I might choose to play Apoc instead of the MMORPG and only visit the MMORPG to socialize. But, that really unites Ashes fans from multiple genres, rather than separating them.

I'll make this simple for you:
I don't really care what individual, subjective problems you perceive.
Objectively, this is not a problem. They have monetized testing for the MMORPG that they were going to be doing anyway.
If you want to complain about splitting the playerbase by creating the board game, that might have a bit more merit, but again, Steven was always planning on doing more with the franchise than just the MMORPG, so... really ain't no thing.

ArchivedUser

Megs said:

Loyheta said:

I have a problem with this game deliberately separating their playerbase by dangling costumes and 'legendaries' in another game that they used our kickstarter money to fund even though it was never pitched. If they want to make a BR, it should have been with the profits from the completed mmo. I don't see why they are triple dipping. They have our sub, cash shop, and now the BR purchases. I don't know why they aren't putting the money from the monthly sales towards the damn game.

Intrepid have made it their stance on NOT wanting a separated player base exceptionally clear, this has been their consistent defence against having separate RP servers.

Personally I'm still not convinced as to apocalypse continuing for ever post MMORPG release and would love to see a quote for it's expected continued existence.

You can take a stance and say you don't want to separate the player base, but an MMORPG and battle royal are as different as you get with games. I don't have a quote since I'm on my phone but they are 100%making apocalypse it's own standalone game independent of AoC. And it'll continue existing after AoC launches. 

People who want to play a BR are not the same people who want to play a MMORPG. it's not gonna be a gateway game mode that filters people into an MMORPG. 

ArchivedUser

@McKnightrider
Thanks for clarifying the continuation of apoc. 

It would be easy to argue that a lot of players who'd play the BR would also like to play the MMORPG, regardless of differing game styles.

And that those who play MMOs for the crafting and those who only play for the RP, or just the In-game puzzles or adventuring or just the 'money making' are also playing very different styles of game, however Intrepid wouldn't think of making niche games for them - their financial incentive is not immediately obvious.

So those who love BR, who otherwise would HAVE to own the ashes mmo, now have the choice not to.

That's how I view it as splitting the community.

ArchivedUser

Atama said:

And IS better make it so there's no disincentive to avoid the BR.  If they declare the BR an important part of the game and gate content or advancement behind it to force people into it and justify its existence, I will declare this game a garbage sham and Steven a shyster.  Including a BR in this game permanently is like finding out your favorite athlete is a sex offender.  You don't feel good about being a fan despite the fact that being a scumbag doesn't do anything to diminish the athletic accomplishments.

Here I thought I was the master of analogies but I must tip my hat to you sir. Between this and your meatloaf cake post you're on fire. 🔥🔥🔥

ArchivedUser

I don't think this BR was really necessary. Pantheon Rise of the Fallen doesn't have a BR and they seem to be doing fine. No MMORPG I've ever played had a BR. I hope this isn't a new trend.

ArchivedUser

I think they could have got the same results if they started with the Castle Siege testing instead of BR, and it would have force more people into a smaller area from the beginning, so it would have stressed the server and client more.  With the BR everyone is spread out until the storm closes in, and by that point there's only a handful of people left in the match

ArchivedUser

So, they would have had to wait 3 extra months to gather the data they want?
And have fans wait 3 extra months?
What's the point in that?

ArchivedUser

danjohnson3141 said:

I don't think this BR was really necessary. Pantheon Rise of the Fallen doesn't have a BR and they seem to be doing fine. No MMORPG I've ever played had a BR. I hope this isn't a new trend.

Pantheon doesn't have pvp or action combat. They have gone old school tab targeting and are using Unity instead of UE4. Totally different concepts towards combat. This testing phase was needed to get the hybrid combat they plan for Ashes right. The main failure of mmos that have had pvp is when it was added after launch and they tried to pigeonhole it into existing systems. With Apocalypse we will get the large scale groups of people in one area spamming abilities thing tweaked and handled before launch. If you manage to get huge groups of people on the server doing what was envisioned months before, launch will have fewer problems. No, "oops, everyone tried to log on, and the servers had never seen that before, so please wait in this queue for the next 10 hours while we trickle you into the game you are paying a sub for."

ArchivedUser

@Megs
They have decided to have Apocalypse as a "standalone" f2p br. However it is not truly standalone since you can unlock around 20 cosmetics per season as a free player or have to dish out 10 bucks (not expensive but still asking for money to unlock something through a different game for your mmo) to unlock around 70 cosmetics per season for the mmo. I'm not saying people shouldn't play BRs I'm saying IS shouldn't be rewarding people for not playing their mmo. They are doing monthly sales and kickstarter and summer sale and yet they put money towards this game which will not have any mechanics in the live mmo. No mention of this in their kickstarter. I find it dishonest and I do not believe they randomly decided to go with a BR to test action combat when there are half a dozen different pvp game types they could have tested and been relevant to the mmo.

If you need a source about them going through with the BR it is on their more recent (as of the time of this post) livestream. 

ArchivedUser

And dygz we funded a kickstarter for their mmorpg... not for their company and their side projects. Mobas were a previous fad which is probably why they were bouncing the idea around. If this BR had no rewards for the mmo I would have no objection about it other than questioning why they are using fund gathered for the mmo on side projects. So again.. you are missing the point.

"If I determine that the MMORPG is too PvP-centric, I might choose to play Apoc instead of the MMORPG and only visit the MMORPG to socialize. But, that really unites Ashes fans from multiple genres, rather than separating them."

Wait.. if a PvX mmo is too pvp focused you are going to play an exclusively pvp game? I'm am so confused.

ArchivedUser

Apocalypse isn't a "side project". It's the test environment for the MMORPG.
Which is why the rewards for Apoc can be used in the MMORPG.

Apocalypse has three modes: BR (PvP); Siege (PvP) and Horde (PvE-only).

You are very confused. True.

ArchivedUser

I am reminded of Radical Heights trying to play this Battle Royale thing.  It feels so clunky.  I hope the main game isn't like this.

ArchivedUser

Well, yeah, again...
This is an alpha test environment with a BR mode, so...
The launch of the MMORPG should not be like this.