Problems regarding "Open Beta"

ArchivedUser

This is just to voice my opinion regarding the announcement of the Apocalypse Open Beta taking place the 18th of December this year.

 

This announcement is a welcome one, but it comes with a problem. I think there have been some misconceptions and a lot of confusion for the people that do not spend too much time with following Ashes in the current state. Not everyone is quite clear about what Apocalypse is and that is why I think it is dangerous to put the open "beta" tag on the testing that will happen the 18th.

 

I can see how people that do not follow Ashes closely will go into this testing with the expectations of a Beta, a game this is almost done, but Ashes is not almost done. 

 

I believe people would be less critical and would receive the "Beta" better if it wasn't labelled as such. If it was labelled as an open Alpha then people’s expectations would be perhaps even be  exceeded, because Ashes is really a good looking game already, but the development is far from done and lots will change.

ArchivedUser

Well I do agree that the 'beta' part might be a problem however no matter what kind of testing you go into you should expect problems unless you just play too many steam early access games... 'w'

ArchivedUser

I'm afraid the announcement confused me. I'm an early founder/Settler, still waiting for an invite.

ArchivedUser

Apocalypse was a **** ass decision to try to clear up  the alpha state of game because they started with a battle royal for stress and server testing and people were wondering where the MMORPG is and why they've changed the game to a battle royal (they really weren't, seriously, people weren't confused then). So they created a brand new separate game mode that would persist outside of Ashes of Creation the MMORPG but also serve as a means to test and filter content into the MMORPG via putting it into this game mode...that is a test, but also an actual game. Clear as mud for ya? Good, because that's as clear as it gets. 

ArchivedUser

https://www.paradoxgaming.net/the-steven-answer

ArchivedUser

guys like you always say: It will get so much better! This is not representative!
Truth is: the game wont look much different from what it looks now. The game will launch soon - of course this game is almost done. So calling it Beta is fine

ArchivedUser

@McKnightrider It is not unclear for me, it is unclear for people that do not follow the game closely. But thanks for your point of view.

@matze It does not look like you are an Alpha Stress Tester. So I find it hard to believe that you have any idea how unstable, unpolished and bug filled the game is at the current point. And it is absolutely fine that it is, it is after all an Alpha.

But for people that expect the stability of a Beta, they might be dissapointed, because this game is far from done.

ArchivedUser

Hjerim said:

@McKnightrider It is not unclear for me, it is unclear for people that do not follow the game closely. But thanks for your point of view.

@matze It does not look like you are an Alpha Stress Tester. So I find it hard to believe that you have any idea how unstable, unpolished and bug filled the game is at the current point. And it is absolutely fine that it is, it is after all an Alpha.

But for people that expect the stability of a Beta, they might be dissapointed, because this game is far from done.

To be fair to @matze this game is currently as polished as Fallout 76, which is a full retail AAA release so . . . I mean his point of view is not very far off from the reality of the gaming industry

On a side note for the people that like comparing fortnite to this game, the REAL fortnite, has been a buggy mess that crashes frequently since its initial "BETA" release. As far as I am concerned, AoC is looking better than both fortnite and fallout 76.

ArchivedUser

I sort of wish that instead of calling it an Open Beta, they would have just called it, Apocalypse the Test

ArchivedUser

T-Elf said:

I sort of wish that instead of calling it an Open Beta, they would have just called it, Apocalypse the Test

@nagash
@UnknownSystemError

Can anyone link me something where IS states that Apocalypse is an "Open Beta" please? Because I thought it was just a renaming of what they were doing with part of the Alpha testing phase 1.

ArchivedUser

@whitedude31

right on the main page

and here : https://apocalypse.ashesofcreation.com/

ArchivedUser

@whitedude31 regarding your argument with Ashes appearing to look better or be of the same quality as Fallout 76 I sadly cannot follow. Fallout 76 is not in my eyes and hopefully not the majority of gamers, a representation of a standard AAA. (At least last time I saw it)

Anyway, the mail that Intrepid sent out yesterday actually addressed my concerns I voiced in this thread. I think they did a very good job explaining what the purpose of the testing is. I would rather have they called it Open Alpha, but I guess it is also hard to change things now that they are set in motion

ArchivedUser

My concern remains; having been burned by other investments, that Apocalypse becomes a salvage attempt when they fail to deliver upon their promise.

I recognize the need to test features of the game; but where there is smoke there is fire. 

This hints of a "plan B." built upon the popularity of battle royal games that is at the front of the industry presently.

Admittedly, I have not yet had the opportunity to test the MMO side of the game; but that's just it.  This feature, does a poor job of managing expectations.

It feels like resources in conflict rather than heading down a coherent path.  So I will wait and see; but I have my reservations. 

ArchivedUser

TBH @Hjerim I have not opened the main page of website for nearly 6 months XD I just have the forum page bookmarked lol

ArchivedUser

"Open Alpha Test" is more accurate sounding for this current stage of the game actually.

ArchivedUser

As an Ashes fanboy and hype train conductor, this APOC announcement really brought me back to planet Earth. 

After many let downs in the gaming industry as of late, I have to say the team in the last live stream looked concerned talking about all this. Then to see the pricing pop up on my.com webpage when it hasn't even been released on the official AOC page was a concern. 
Like it was mentioned, those looking from the outside will be a bit confused. 
All the signs of "plan B" are there in APOC. Even as someone who has tested, I have to say all this makes my stomach upset. 

However, I refuse to give up hope until the MMO is in my hands. 

ArchivedUser

Wait a second , i am new here . I assume when they say open beta that all progress is going to stay ? Or we will have a wipe before launch ?

ArchivedUser

Card1nal said:

Wait a second , i am new here . I assume when they say open beta that all progress is going to stay ? Or we will have a wipe before launch ?

The Apocalypse is a separate testing experience. The only thing gained by participating in it are cosmetics that will transfer over to the mmo game. The mmo testing that will occur next year will have multiple wipes and phases, and there is a final wipe before launch guaranteed. There is no p2w advantage by being in a testing phase. Everything will be wiped and people start fresh. The combat in Apocalypse will be different that the eventual hybrid combat that the mmo will adopt. Just because you manage to reach level 50 in a "season" of APOC does not mean you will start the mmo at the end of next year with a max level character. The exp levels in APOC denote progress, not power. Your APOC character may visually transfer over once all the bells and whistles from the character creator are implemented, but it would be just that, the visual.

ArchivedUser

I'm personally confused why everyone is confused.....didn't we all just get an email explaining exactly what apocalypse is and why it exists? I'm assuming that email is what triggered all of these new accounts to come forth with concerns.....which are answered in that email lol?

ArchivedUser

Side confusion note:

Do we still have to register for this Apocalyptic Beta .. if we already have an account apologies this is not superclear to me and thank you for any help / reply / advice.

Belisar

ArchivedUser

@B3lisarius you can try and register and if it says that the username or mail is already registered, then you are atleast certain.

@R41D3NZ it was explained in the mail what is wanted from the test, but it still says it is an Open Beta which is confusing, because in reality we are in Alpha, and will stay in Alpha until 2019 third quarter.

The problem is that it is not clear for new people that do not follow every news update that it is actually "Alpha" testing that they are gonna do on December 18th.

The decision about buying or ignoring the game is most likely for many people dependent on their experience with this open "Beta".

This is a problem because people expect Beta testing quality, but in reality they are getting the stability, bugs and polish of an Alpha.

ArchivedUser

Alpha testing and Beta testing no longer have any standard meanings or expectations.
Pre-alpha testing and Early Access frequently are what would have been considered Beta testing in the past.
And games continually update past the feature locks that would have signified a Beta 10 years ago.
These days Beta testing just means a significantly wider level of Early Access than Alpha testing.

ArchivedUser

Is there going to be and e mail sent for invite to this? Also when will be able to download the game?

ArchivedUser

Teldar said:

Is there going to be and e mail sent for invite to this? Also when will be able to download the game?

There should be e-mails going out as for when it will depend on whether or not you are a backer as for the download itself you will be able to download the Apocalypse testing phase on the 18th of December.

ArchivedUser

It is open beta of the Apoc BR mode.

ArchivedUser

They should use the phrase public testing instead of open beta. "Open beta" raised even more confusion than before. Yes, they can say that it's because Apoc is almost ready but let's face the truth, does the Apoc game looks even close to being a beta game? I don't think so, it looks more like a tech demo than a beta build to me (look at all those placeholders).

Players are already used to the term "beta" that means "game is almost ready, everything is polished, we just need to do some fine tuning."

ArchivedUser

Jahlon said:

It is open beta of the Apoc BR mode.

Jahlon is correct.  What Intrepid is advertising is not inaccurate.  Apocalypse is a separate thing done in parallel and in support of Ashes of Creation, but isn't the same game.

As to whether or not Apocalypse looks like a beta build...  Sure it does.  A beta build of a piece of garbage.  The BR game is a lazy joke.  I was fine with it when it was just a quick-and-dirty platform for testing some systems that the MMORPG will use (game physics, launcher, server infrastructure) but they should be ashamed if they're trying to pass this off as an actual product.

It's almost like someone is starting up a bakery specializing in fancy cakes.  They start making meatloaf in the cake pans and assure everyone eating the meatloaf and vomiting that they are only testing the integrity of the pans.  Then they take a total 180 degree turn and declare, well we're already making this meatloaf, let's put it on the menu.  It might not mean that the cake is going to be bad, it might be the best cake ever, but your bakery is going to get a reputation as a place that serves awful food long before people actually get to taste anything good.

By the way, for anyone wondering, I’m still looking forward to that fancy cake.  I still have faith that it’ll be fantastic.

ArchivedUser

@Teldar remember to sign up on the website too. Most people which have been signed up have recieved mail already as far as I understand.

@Jahlon and @Atama you are absolutely right. Intrepid is following the rulebook and have explained the difference between the two and made it somewhat clear that the it is a Beta for Apocalypse and not the MMO. I believe most of us here on the forums are aware of this. I think my "complain" is that there have happend too big changes too quickly which have caused this misunderstanding for some of the more casual players... and of course the term "Beta" used about Alpha progress.

@Atama I understand your point and feel somewhat the same way, but the "Meatloaf" is not for sale in this metaphor. The "Meatloaf" is free of charge.

You can buy stuff in Apocalypse, but as far is I understand, the items you unlock will later be available in the MMO itself. I might have misunderstood something in regards to this, I am not quite sure?

ArchivedUser

Hjerim said:

@Atama I understand your point and feel somewhat the same way, but the "Meatloaf" is not for sale in this metaphor. The "Meatloaf" is free of charge. 

You can buy stuff in Apocalypse, but as far is I understand, the items you unlock will later be available in the MMO itself. I might have misunderstood something in regards to this, I am not quite sure?

The beta is of course free.  I suspect (I don’t know for sure) that you’ll need an active AoC account to play it after launch just like the MMORPG, so at that point it’s not free.

Or in my analogy you could say that everyone buying a cake is handed a meatloaf as a freebie, a meatloaf that might make them lose their appetite even if they don’t eat it.

I am still a fan of IS but I think this is another mistake, like the summer sale that included one or more items promised to be exclusive in the Kickstarter.  Nobody is perfect but I think it’s good to call them out if they’re doing something that seems wrong.

ArchivedUser

Atama said:

Hjerim said:

@Atama I understand your point and feel somewhat the same way, but the "Meatloaf" is not for sale in this metaphor. The "Meatloaf" is free of charge. 

You can buy stuff in Apocalypse, but as far is I understand, the items you unlock will later be available in the MMO itself. I might have misunderstood something in regards to this, I am not quite sure?

The beta is of course free.  I suspect (I don’t know for sure) that you’ll need an active AoC account to play it after launch just like the MMORPG, so at that point it’s not free.

Or in my analogy you could say that everyone buying a cake is handed a meatloaf as a freebie, a meatloaf that might make them lose their appetite even if they don’t eat it.

I am still a fan of IS but I think this is another mistake, like the summer sale that included one or more items promised to be exclusive in the Kickstarter.  Nobody is perfect but I think it’s good to call them out if they’re doing something that seems wrong.

Pretty sure summer backing had their own items and that the kickstarter exclusive goals (the ks armor, fx, etc) will not be given to them either ?

ArchivedUser

AutumnLeaf said:

Atama said:

Hjerim said:

@Atama I understand your point and feel somewhat the same way, but the "Meatloaf" is not for sale in this metaphor. The "Meatloaf" is free of charge. 

You can buy stuff in Apocalypse, but as far is I understand, the items you unlock will later be available in the MMO itself. I might have misunderstood something in regards to this, I am not quite sure?

The beta is of course free.  I suspect (I don’t know for sure) that you’ll need an active AoC account to play it after launch just like the MMORPG, so at that point it’s not free.

Or in my analogy you could say that everyone buying a cake is handed a meatloaf as a freebie, a meatloaf that might make them lose their appetite even if they don’t eat it.

I am still a fan of IS but I think this is another mistake, like the summer sale that included one or more items promised to be exclusive in the Kickstarter.  Nobody is perfect but I think it’s good to call them out if they’re doing something that seems wrong.

Pretty sure summer backing had their own items and that the kickstarter exclusive goals (the ks armor, fx, etc) will not be given to them either ?

Lifetime subscription was.