In-Game Quest Markers or Analog Navigation?

Which do you prefer? An in game quest marker immediately directing you to your destination, or would you rather be required to read the quest description to find your destination?

Personally I like to role play in my role playing games, so small quirks like reading the quest text really just help me immerse myself a bit more into my character, so if i had to say, id prefer relaxing and reading my quests rather than racing and following my quest markers.

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Damokles

Autumnleaf wrote: »

hand holding in general is pretty shit, I mean give the player a detailed description of where he has to go and it's enough for anyone with a speck of common sense "To the west in the forest there is a cave, go there and kill the goblins that have been attacking nearby villages" I mean with descriptions like this you cant go wrong as long as you have a compass.

Did you ever quest in Tirisglade in WoW Classic? There are 3 different murloc groups in close proximity, try to find one i dare you ;D
But seriously, i think the same way as you do. Most of the time, these things are pretty selfexplanatory, but many casuals dont want to really read the quest descriptions, which is a damn shame in my opinion....
Most MMORPG casuals seem to have forgotten that leveling is half the experience, all they want is to get max level and do the max level content.
I really hope, that AoC will be able to smack that out of their heads. We need to start taking our time with games again.

BeerBuddy

The problem I see with having to visit every NPC to find quests is that one might not have a quest for you the first five times you talk but then an unnoticed event occurs and now a key quest exists, hiding with that NPC. Chances are that you won't think to ask a sixth time. That's when everyone resorts to wiki and YouTube to find the location of the key NPC.

I also admit that I have troubles remembering text descriptions of locations for the four tasks that I've taken on, so there at least needs to be an in game mechanic to review a quest objective/directions if no map exists.

Personally, I'd like fog of war on the main map with key discoveries and with the ability to mark my own notes of where I think something might be. That and some mechanic for finding quests that doesn't require asking everyone repeatedly. I could live without markers with those features.

syl

In my opinion, the questing system should be centered at you figuring out where to go and what to do. The hard part of making such a system is the possibility of quest being too boring or too 'hard' (like - too cryptic or unable to figure out).
In my ideal MMO, I would want to see an analog mode. There should, however, be some safeguards or 'hints' when you don't know what to do. The one thing the MMO should avoid is themeparking and autopathing. You want to play the game yourself, not let the game play for you.

sivanna

As far as NPCs with quests it might be neat to have a town crier who points you to the direction of a quest giver. Something like “Bandits attacking travelers! Garrison leader seeking aide from all!” Then you know have an idea where to go and who to talk too. It would also be a fun way to broadcast player accomplishments. But there could also just be a notice board as well that can help players sort through node quests. I hope I don’t seee giant. ! Over anyone’s head...

tarros

My issue with analog specific games is that it takes up a lot of time to figure things out. I don't have the time I did when I was playing Morrowind. As much as I enjoyed it I just don't have that kind of time anymore. Even when I was playing Morrowind, some of those quests analog was just down right stupid.

I would like a hybrid of both analog without the hand holding but when you are in a very close proximity to the quest it does give you a marker. Also I do want these analog to have specific location names and generalized area description. If AoC can't come up with good analog for their quests that will actually be useful than "a rock in a forest" when there is like forest freaken EVERY where. yeah no give me quest markers.

Volgaire

Damokles wrote: »

Autumnleaf wrote: »

hand holding in general is pretty shit, I mean give the player a detailed description of where he has to go and it's enough for anyone with a speck of common sense "To the west in the forest there is a cave, go there and kill the goblins that have been attacking nearby villages" I mean with descriptions like this you cant go wrong as long as you have a compass.

Did you ever quest in Tirisglade in WoW Classic? There are 3 different murloc groups in close proximity, try to find one i dare you ;D
But seriously, i think the same way as you do. Most of the time, these things are pretty selfexplanatory, but many casuals dont want to really read the quest descriptions, which is a damn shame in my opinion....
Most MMORPG casuals seem to have forgotten that leveling is half the experience, all they want is to get max level and do the max level content.
I really hope, that AoC will be able to smack that out of their heads. We need to start taking our time with games again.

You mean get to max level, repeat the same stuff a few times, stop playing while waiting for new expansion, repeat.

Eh I really hope this game wont be a babysitter for the many babies that are mmo players.

LieutenantToast

noemad wrote: »

I'm a bit different. While I like finding the goal of the quest myself (analog) I don't like having to search for the actual quest-giver. I don't want to have to waste time talking to 37 NPCs only to find out only 3 of them have quests to do. There's only so much NPC banter I can take.

This could certainly be a good compromise/blend of the two approaches, and personally I think I might enjoy this style the best! Excellent discussion topic, @mcjenkins - love seeing everyone's thoughts on where along the "convenience" spectrum they fall.

fstriker2

Nagash wrote: »

You know as long as its not as hard to find as mankrik's wife

The infamous hahahaha
I agree. As long as it's not ridiculously hard, analog all the way. One cool thing that could be done is that if the quest is given in a Scientific node, the quest info will be more specific, since that node has access to more information about the world thru the Library.

mozsta69

mcjenkins wrote: »

Which do you prefer? An in game quest marker immediately directing you to your destination, or would you rather be required to read the quest description to find your destination?

Personally I like to role play in my role playing games, so small quirks like reading the quest text really just help me immerse myself a bit more into my character, so if i had to say, id prefer relaxing and reading my quests rather than racing and following my quest markers.

Totally with you there. Quest markers dumb down the game incredibly. We all tend to just switch off and race from one question mark to the other.....i loved the old days when you had to 'find the cave to the east' and that was it.

Bloodless

I have read a lot of great comments here. I think it could be a lot of fun to have a hybrid system as well. I like the idea of having quest markers for areas that have previously been explored on your map (AKA not in the fog of war). However, these markers don't reveal the exact location but just the general vicinity of the target. This would allow players not to redundantly search the same areas that they've been to countless times before, yet they're still able to explore new areas and enjoy the journey.

As for quest-giving NPCs, I feel as though there should definitely be hints spread about the world but not markers until you come near an NPC. For example, if I'm on the other side of town, there may be a guard passing by that says something like, "That poor soul, if only he had listened to me when I said the mines are too dangerous to defend."

Then later you hear another guard say, "Roger was a good man, I'd bet the magistrate would be willing to pay anyone he can to bring him the head of that cave beast." Now you know that the magistrate has a new quest waiting for you. So when you go to visit the magistrate and enter the building he resides in, a quest marker will appear, I'm not really a fan of the "!" or "?" because it is too cartoony and breaks the immersion. I'd rather have an option to make it an aura or "!". The aura can be different colors, like yellow aura for a new quest/update quest, green aura for turning in a quest, blue aura to gather, and red aura for killing something.

Anyways, by looking at the many different ways that others have put in I think this is by far the best options presented. Please let me know what you think. Thanks!

Wandering Mist

I'm rather late to the party on this one, but I'd like to share a recent experience I had in FFXIV. For those who don't know, questing in FFXIV involves a lot of quest markers, both in the world and on the map/minimap. You are directed for every quest and only need to read the quest text if you are interested in the story itself. After awhile of playing I realised that while traversing the world, I hardly ever looked at my surroundings at all. My eyes were constantly glued to my map or minimap and I would go from point A to point B to point C very quickly.

I wanted to fix that, so I turned off the minimap and unbound the hotkey for the main map so that I couldn't use it. Immediately I saw a difference. Without the maps to draw my attention I spent a lot more time admiring the world and my surroundings, and I started learning my way around without the maps to guide me. For casual exploration it was great, but if I wanted to do any quests or meaningful leveling, it was a nightmare. For one thing, the quest text most of the time was very vague. You would be told which zone to go to but nothing more specific than that, meaning it was nearly impossible to find the exact place you needed to go.

On top of that one of the main ways of leveling apart from the quests is the fate system. Fates are world events that spawn randomly and only show up on the map and minimap. Without those tools you had no idea where the fates were unless you happened to stumble upon them while exploring.

Simply put, leveling in FFXIV without the map or minimap is impossible, because the game is designed to be played with those functions. Now I'm all for Ashes of Creation's approach of not hand-holding players with quest markers, but if that's the case then you need to give us the tools to complete the tasks without them. For example, if you have quest text that says "Travel East of here to reach your next destination" that information is useless to you unless you know which way is East. If you plan on having quest text like that, you need to supply players with a compass for navigation.

Tatiana

morashtak wrote: »

If the clues in the quest log are clear enough then analog is fine - Give me "South of that place, west of the other place" and I'll do a grid search to find it.

If it's only "South of the chain of mountains that run east to west the length of the continent" then screw it, give me a marker because no one has time for that.

This.

Atama

Another game that seemed to go overboard with quest markers is BDO. When I played it, it was like a huge glowing neon path not only told me where to go but where to walk. I think I remember that I could even have it automatically make me run there too. It gets to a point where I feel like I don’t even need to play the game at times, just watch as my character does stuff (until combat at least).

One of the many irritating things about that game.

Viymjr

I think it could get frustrating quickly if you cant find something. So maybe analogue as default with a reveal/marker option in the quest tracker so if you really cant find something, or just too stoned/drunk/stupid to work it out for yourself

Wandering Mist

atama wrote: »

Another game that seemed to go overboard with quest markers is BDO. When I played it, it was like a huge glowing neon path not only told me where to go but where to walk. I think I remember that I could even have it automatically make me run there too. It gets to a point where I feel like I don’t even need to play the game at times, just watch as my character does stuff (until combat at least).

One of the many irritating things about that game.

That is a very common trope of Asian mmorpgs, and I never understood it. I'm glad it's something that never took hold in Western-developed mmorpgs.

Amist

They could perhaps make it so that once you've completed the quest once, the quest markers will appear. It'll make it so that going on alts won't be as tideous

caedwyn

jahlon wrote: »

I love having to find it, as long as they aren't over the top dickish with hiding things.

like pathfinder: kingmaker quests sometimes were just SO hard to find ... outright vague
but still, i liked the game tho.

i personally think :
1: they should provide ENOUGH information and update the quest.
2: for some quests, a vicinity quest mark wouldn't be bad
3: quest GIVERS should be made obvious really, i hate to start chatting with EVERY npc and getting repeated dialogues in the hope of finally one of them giving me a quest...

[Deleted User]

I would prefer to have to read the quest and work out where to go....

Except for all of those days when my brain damage means that I know exactly what that sentence I read said, but my brain just fails to process what it MEANS.
So I have to go to the sausage (Tower) and put the gazelle (hat) on the brazier (guard)???!?

Or those days when I can work out exactly what that sentence said, but can't hold the information from the previous sentence in my head.:

So I have to go to the tower and put the hat on the guard.
Wait... what tower, ah.
Above the pit of dispair to the west of village there is a tower.
Ok, got you. tower above pit, west of the village.
Wait... what did I need to do?

On days like that I'd love to have arrows.

Why not have the option of both?

Devil's advocate against the choice option : folks with similar issues to myself have a lot more to contend with than difficulties in games, and anyone struggling to comprehend /remember a quest doesn't find that they can't proceed any further. They aren' locked out of that content... because all they have to do is work around it, by simply ASKING ANYONE for help - guildy, friendy, random passing stranger.
Work arounds that work are awesome.

StreetCornerPoet

megs wrote: »

I would prefer to have to read the quest and work out where to go....

Except for all of those days when my brain damage means that I know exactly what that sentence I read said, but my brain just fails to process what it MEANS.
So I have to go to the sausage (Tower) and put the gazelle (hat) on the brazier (guard)???!?

Or those days when I can work out exactly what that sentence said, but can't hold the information from the previous sentence in my head.:

So I have to go to the tower and put the hat on the guard.
Wait... what tower, ah.
Above the pit of dispair to the west of village there is a tower.
Ok, got you. tower above pit, west of the village.
Wait... what did I need to do?

On days like that I'd love to have arrows.

Why not have the option of both?

Devil's advocate against the choice option : folks with similar issues to myself have a lot more to contend with than difficulties in games, and anyone struggling to comprehend /remember a quest doesn't find that they can't proceed any further. They aren' locked out of that content... because all they have to do is work around it, by simply ASKING ANYONE for help - guildy, friendy, random passing stranger.
Work arounds that work are awesome.

The only problem with both is that the majority of gamers will always take the easier path. People like to say they want something bare boned or they want to figure things out, but if given the tools to make it easier they will use said tools and only a few dedicated people will use it the harder way, which puts them at a disadvantage getting to a quest spot late or if they are in a group and the majority of the group is using the arrows and in game easier quest guide you are then forced to play along.

Its kind of like how a ton of people in surveys will say they like their coffee black but everyone knows the majority are ordering lattes or frappuccinos or whatever other special sugary coffee they like.

Customers rarely actually say what they want because they are worried about appearances but survey answers and actual purchase/game activity differ from the "on paper" results. So you really just have to have one or the other.

insomnia

I just recall what a pain it was at times, trying to figure out, where to go with your quests, in vanilla WoW.

I recall they said that quests givers wouldn't have a quest marker, which will just make it a pain, to try and find quests, especialy in the bigger/biggest cities, as someone else also pointet out. I might remember wrong though

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