Wandering MistModerator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@morashtak When comparing the difficulty of Classic WoW vs Retail WoW, the main difference is that in Classic WoW you are limited by what your character can do, whereas in Retail WoW you are limited by what you, the player can do. In Classic WoW, it doesn't matter how good you are as a player, if you try to fight more than 2 mobs your own level at the same time you will die. Your character is simply incapable of defeating multiple opponents solo.
In Retail WoW on the other hand, you are more limited by your skill as a player, since your character is practically a god that can kill 5-6 mobs no problem as long as you use your cooldowns properly. The result is that in Classic WoW the world is much more dangerous and you have to be a lot more careful, whereas in Retail WoW you are never really in danger unless you purposefully try to fight 10+ mobs at a time.
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T ElfMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I'm hoping for game play that is more character centered than player centered.
In Retail WoW on the other hand, you are more limited by your skill as a player, since your character is practically a god that can kill 5-6 mobs no problem as long as you use your cooldowns properly. The result is that in Classic WoW the world is much more dangerous and you have to be a lot more careful, whereas in Retail WoW you are never really in danger unless you purposefully try to fight 10+ mobs at a time.
In what regard is managing cooldowns a skill one has to master?
The only thing you really have to think about when creating a skillset in an MMO like WoW is in what order you want to use them but thats mostly just a one-time thing and after a few weeks of learning this once created combo there is not much skill into it
Managing cooldowns isnt exactly skillfull once you know your skills and their duration. I guess thats what a few people here also meant when they were talking about "skillfull gameplay"
In traditional HacknSlash you can put all your skill into a macro because there isnt any real skill but only a combo you loop
Classic WoW takes moer skill in that regard because you have to actually think about what you are going to do rather than how youre doing it as the how is more often than not just choosing one of a few loops to.. loop
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Wandering MistModerator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@Joseline I think it's safe to say that dps rotations in Retail WoW are far more involved than they are in Classic WoW. In Classic WoW most dps classes will use 2-3 abilities at the most. Just as an example, let's compare Frost mages from Classic WoW and Retail WoW. In Classic WoW the rotation is as follows:
Frostbolt -> Frostbolt -> Frostbolt until you either go oom or have too much threat, then get out your wand and shoot away.
Compare that to the Retail WoW Frost mage, which I can't be bother typing out so just refer to this guide:
There is no contest. That's why in Retail WoW you can have 2 players with the same gear using the same spec doing vastly different dps (sometimes up to 20% difference). In Classic WoW this difference is far less.And yes, knowing when to use your cooldowns is an important skill to master, particularly in mythic raiding. Using your big cooldowns at the right time and always having them synced up with you need them takes a lot of practice.
Is one harder than the other? Not really. I've said this before that comparing the difficulty of Classic WoW and Retail WoW is like comparing the difficulty between Chess and Starcraft2. Both present their own challenges to the player. Classic WoW challenges the player by giving them less tools to use and a generally weaker character, forcing you to think very carefully about each move you make. On the other hand, Retail WoW challenges the player by forcing them to learn to use a lot more tools in order to be effective.
Quests that have you helping someone build a "thing", and then not seeing that "thing" get built, even after 10 years. There is a Halfling in EQ2 that I helped find exhibits to put in his soon to be built museum way back in 2004, and 15 years later there is still no museum.
Daily quests, tasks or lockouts - or anything that makes players feel like they are missing out of they don't log in each day. I don't want the feeling of having to log in each and every day to any game, and that is all daily tasks actually seem to do. I'd be willing to accept a weekly count on things like this, as if I don't log in one or two days in a row I can easily make that up when I do get on.
The feeling of *having* to log in each day or you will fall behind leads to player burnout, so is bad for the games population in the long term.
I don't want to see any form of progression - other than PvP specific progression and contested fights - where another players actions can halt your progression for an extended period of time. This means that any contested kills needed for quests need to flag anyone involved in killing the encounter - even if they are not in the group or raid that gets loot from said encounter.
In a game like Ashes, if a group of players *can* block the progression of another group of players simply by maintaining a lock down on one rare spawn encounter, they *will* do that. The developers need to be sure that doing that isn't an option.
If we have limited ability slots, I don't want to see buffs use those slots up at all. With only 10 active abilities, I want 10 abilities to use during combat, not 3 buffs to cast pre-combat, a recovery ability for after combat, a utility ability and then only having space for 5 combat abilities.
Another thing I don't want to see are near worthless crafted consumables. Make them expensive if you have to, but make them worth using.
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MeowsedMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
In reply to some other people's mention of daily quests, I think they're important to have in any MMO, and they're only problematic when they are done wrong.
Having a bazillion daily quests, half of which are mundane and boring, is just an abusive way to encourage players to spend way too much time on the game.
Dailies are supposed to have the exact opposite effect. You're supposed to feel rewarded even if you only have an hour or two to play. And they're supposed to limit how much progress you can make from grinding after the daily bonus is gone, so that players with more time don't get too far ahead. And to a lesser extent, they encourage players to try different content because there's usually a daily bonus for each one.
So I think the concept of dailies is still valuable. Weeklies are probably better though, at least for players with inconsistent schedules.
So I think the concept of dailies is still valuable. Weeklies are probably better though, at least for players with inconsistent schedules.
This is exactly why I don't want dailies.
Putting in a means to curb (though not halt) progression for power gamers is fine, just not at the expense of making people feel like they *need* to log in every day to keep up.
My understanding is that the servers for Ashes will go down for an hour or so each week (general maintenance and season changing iirc). To me, this would be the perfect time to reset a weekly count for lockouts and limited count quests.
I would much rather have a week to do one quest 7 times - or even 10 times - than one day to do one quest once. If I have a week, it is still limiting the power gamer, but it means that if a regular player can't (or doesn't want to) log on for a day or two, they are not penalized for it at all.
The power gamer may log in right after the server comes up and knock out all of their weekly quests in a few hours. This is fine for me, if that's what they want to do, they are welcome to it. The normal player though, the person working a 9 - 5, maybe with family commitments or such, then has the choice of doing a little bit each day, or maybe they can find one significant block of time during the week - any day that suits them - and either way they do it, they are able to keep up in terms of limited time questing. May be one night they do three or four, or may be they just do them all over the weekend, either way, it is still limiting how often these things can be done, but offers players a lot more freedom before they start missing out.
This allows players to not be penalized for taking their child to an activity, or take their significant other out for dinner and a show. Simple things like this keep players in a specific game much longer.
Sure, people that are away for a whole week will be missing out, but I personally think that's more than fair.
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Wandering MistModerator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@leonerdo The problem I have with dailies is they contribute to the skinner box that compels players to log on every day even when they don't enjoy what they are doing. In my experience, dailies are a punishment mechanic for NOT logging on every day, because if you don't do them every day you will fall behind. In the case of WoW dailies you feel forced to do the dailies purely for the rewards. This is especially true for mythic raiders who need the dailies in order to get enough AP for their raids.
I haven't met a single mythic raider who said they enjoyed doing dailies, but they all do them because they have to. It turns the game into a chore where you have to log on every day with a list of things to do, not because you want to do them, but because you HAVE to do them in order to do the one thing you enjoy doing (raiding).
FFXIV has a daily dungeon finder roulette that follows the same principle. The rewards it offers you are required to remain competitive at end-game which forces you to do it every day even when the daily content itself is very boring. The problem with FFXIV's dailies is that they are necessary for the functioning of the game, since players are required to do certain dungeons in order to progress through the story. If the dungeon finder roulette didn't exist, nobody would queue for a dungeon after they had done it once, and this would stall newer players from progressing through the story.
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Wandering MistModerator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
- Upgrade system. I dont want to see a number behind my weapon. This number behind a weapon never did anything good other than encouraging power creep and P2W-mechanics. Even if they stay away from the P2W thing Im afraid that there will be updates like "Oh we increased the max. upgradelevel from +7 to +9", do this 3 more times and the power creep cant be stopped anymore
I hope for a simple crafting path from common to legendary weapons with basic enchantments instead of weapon upgrades.There are other ways to increase a weapons streanght other than making it +15
- Easy raids and raids that demand too many players. I like challenging raids that you have to try over and over and over and over again until you finaly beat them. I dont like however raids that require you to get 50 people for a single run. Smaller guilds should be able to beat them as well
- No auto travel. Its poor game design if you have to walk for 30min straight to get from PointA to PointB. One of the major mistakes Bless made (well they made a lot of major mistakes..). More than 50% of bless's gameplay experience was walking from A to B. Autowalk was certainly needed in that case but it shouldve showed the Devs that theyre doing something wrong
- PvP zones that force you into PvP and cant be avoided. That was a thing in Cabal. Lv100+ maps were marked as war zones and players from 2 diffrent fractions could attack each other on sight. While this sounds like a fun thing to do it was annoying if youre leveling a twink in those areas and someone from the opposite fraction sees you. You either had to pray that its a nice guy who just passed by or youre dead and couldnt play the game until youre alone again
- power creep. Nuff said. This always happens in every game, never not seen it happen but one can hope
@Joseline Just returning to this point, while looking on the wiki I found the following article for systems that are designed to combat power creep:
In regards to the debate of skill in classic and retail.
Dont forget that people mostly didnt know how to play in the first place. It was a lot of exploration of mechanics.
The legendary nerf of warriors ehich were considered garbage at the time was a great example. It needed just one guy showing how absolutly broken it was.
Hunters are another example the autoattack mechanic was a lot more skillfull then people expected. The broad mass didnt understand even way into burning crusade that you have to play around auto attacks. (Which is completely dumbed down and trivialized by now) you had to time every skill in a way that it doesnt interfer with auto attacks. Move stop attack in tact to not miss an auto attack.
Its hard to retroactively say >>in general<< wether classic was more or less skillfull then retail. People just didnt explore it fully at the time and using only frostbolt could have been one of those things that were done just because it worked.
Hunters would be one example tho that needed far more skill in classic then in retail.
I can be a life fulfilling dream. - Zekece
I can be a life devouring nightmare. - Grisu#1819
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akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I definitely do not want to be leaving the pc running 24/7 to run an afk shop in Lineage 2 style.
Dunno how effective it will be, if they do actually implement it though.
Being honest here, I dont exactly understand how they combat power creep
When I read through the page I see a lot of "you have to invest in your weapons to keep it strong" but doesnt that just slow down the process? In the end players will have said EQ and new items will find their way into the game anyway
Is it about never allowing players to achieve acual "highest end" as they keep releasing new stuff before one gets to "highest end"? but wouldnt that be kind of frustrating too¿ Altough its an MMO there should be a point where you can say "I finished my EQ"
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MeowsedMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@wanderingmist FFXIV didn't require you to do all the dailies every day. The weekly cap on tomestones keeps that from being an issue. You can cap out by just doing like 2 roulettes (30-60 minutes total) a day, or just playing a bunch on the weekend. Of course you can still do the other roulettes for money, but I'm pretty sure you don't need much money to be competitive, unless you're tryna have multiple classes with raid-ready gear or something.
If anything I think FFXIV proves my point about how to do dailies correctly. They have weekly caps that prevent hard-core players from blasting through new content. And they have varied daily systems (including the weekly challenge log) that give the players options about what they want to do, without requiring you to do all of them if you didn't want to.
FFXIV lets you grind if you want, but it doesn't require you to. And it doesn't let you get way ahead if you do grind.
@Joseline I don't know how the posted article provides anything regarding power creep. They haven't definitively said it, but the way Ashes is presented in their long term goals (progressive content updates) power creep shouldn't ever(in the forseeable future of a few years) happen here in the first place.
There (as I understand and guess from the information we have) won't be a level increase in the future. Content updates could provide new ressources to provide new stat combinations/stat weights for crafting,, without overwhelming the old items and that's basically it all you need to prevent power creep drivers.
Now that I wrote it I get the item sink link. You have to continually use materials to maintain your gear, but a long time ago it was said that those repairs will become more and more inefficent. I believe this wasn't rewoked. So at some point you will replace every piece of gear you have, even if it's with the same item, just freshly crafted. So you will never sit on the exact gear item forever. It doesn't prevent power creep, but the recycling will give you "new" gear with benefits (less repair costs) again, making it fresh and helpful without power creeping.
I can be a life fulfilling dream. - Zekece
I can be a life devouring nightmare. - Grisu#1819
Forced pets.
That you do better in combat with a pet, and cant choose to be stronger without pet. So if you don't like pets you are strongly disadvantaged. Or have a pet anyway and be annoyed.
Guns dont, fit in any medieval game. Cannon however can possible fit for sieges.
If I want to play with games i just play modern FPS instead.
Stress related quests,
have to do 1 quest each day for bigger reward at the end of the week, let people just do quest they haven't done or just appeared. The good if you dont have this people will associate the game with stress reliving fun instead of work, and be more enjoyable and can capture players for longer, and be more of a positive addiction. Instead of a negative one, which is detrimental to all parts of society.
Not something is annoyed but something is needed though I have no idea how to implement this, that players have to chat with each other, so the game doesn't seem dead. More fun when it is interactive, remember when I played my first MMO everyone was so talkative. Instead of dead silent.
A cosmetic skin, that makes it look better than it is, or worse for that matter.
Breaking the 4th wall.
If PvP is gonna be in a lot of areas around the world it is very annoying when you lose much of your items, or valuable items, + the travel time you got to do to get back to your location. So there need to be a balance. Or a proper balance.
1) Dailies - If there a ton of them and they are required for mainstream rewards. If they are extremely limited, do not coerce or artificially force daily logins, provide horizontal rewards, and are dynamic or varied (not the same each day) then it might be ok.
2) Holidays events - don't bring Christmas, Easter, and Halloween into a fantasy world. It's tacky.
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MeowsedMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@ravudha I get your point, but Halloween is objectively the most fun holiday, so I'm always down for a faux-Halloween event.
2) Holidays events - don't bring Christmas, Easter, and Halloween into a fantasy world. It's tacky.
I agree with this, though I do see one exception.
To me, if the developers have an in game lore reason for a holiday to exist, AND the games calendar aligns with our calendar, then events like this would be fine.
If an event is supposed to be yearly, then why have 5 in game years past since it was last celebrated? If an event is supposed to take place during a given season, why is it taking place in the 3rd month this time, while last time it was the 8th month?
I think it can be done tastefully if it's integrated with the lore properly; you might see subtle changes around town etc. But if there's quests involving candy I'm outta there.
Daily quests. I just don't enjoy them. We should play because we want to, not because the game forces us.
If I have 1 hour to play, I want to try a small dungeon, or gather some materials.
Otherwise if you have 1 hour of gameplay you just do what the game tells you to do, if you have 2, you still have to waste 1 hour doing a daily quest.
Dungeon finder > I don't enjoy it. It IS practical, but it does kill interaction. Yes, sometimes you just want to log in and do dungeons, but I hope they don't have it.
Higher levels > I don't enjoy content becoming irrelevant. Please add new content without increasing level. What is the reason to increase level? It brings nothing to the able. You can easily add new abilities without level. Or classes.
Anything that is time gated > I usually don't enjoy this. I remember GW2 having events that would last 1 week and you had to do all the achievements (if you wanted) or lose them forever. So for about a week, your GW2 experience would resume to a vicious circle of doing the same thing over and over until you got what you wanted, but without having a choice to stop doing it for a couple of days.
I just hope, that they wont make it too easy...
That was the reason for WoW demise.
Making the game easier is fine. WoW's problem was they made things really easy in wrath and then immediately made things a lot harder in Cata. Anyone who hadn't played during TBC wasn't prepared (pun intended) for the sudden increase in difficulty.
I would like it to be easy enough to be accessible to a large, diverse player base. But I definitely personally feel more accomplished when things actually take a little effort.
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SolunaMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I really hope Ashes will somehow prevent players from skipping whole parts of a dungeon.. I´m not sure if that´s possible at all but what I´ve experienced in many mmorpgs I´ve played was that players always go the easy way when doing dungeons. In Guild Wars 2 for example every Arah run (lvl 80 dungeon) was: Someone just pulls all of the mobs, runs through half of the dungeon, dies somewhere to reset all the mobs and the rest of the group just follows.. That´s rlly not what I´d like to see anymore in any upcoming mmorpg.. I rlly like it when all kind of content is challenging but also rewarding!
I just hope they don't start making content easier like ESO did with Craglorn or like WoW has done with raiding in general.
I agree that I don't want NPC dailies because we should be getting plenty of static quests from players and cities for materials to help with expanding or to help with supplies. Since we'll have "busy quests" that we can engage in from everything to help the local inn stock food to helping cities gather materials for building and upgrading I don't see NPC dailies as really having a place.
Lack of solo or small group content later in game. There should always be something to do if you can't get a full group or raid together even at high levels.
Empty cities. I know they are already planning that nodes degrade if people don't keep them up, but I hope it is fast enough that a city doesn't just hang around as a ghost town too long.
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akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Do not want to see a highly limited/restricted inventory vs a subscribed inventory size
Bots
Need to have a second account to play
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Homogenization.
All the classes need to be different. In the glory days of MMO's and RPG's all the classes were different and had different rolls. Now they are all the same.
Scaling.
I didn't invest countless hours leveling and working to become a badass just to have level 1 rat in the starter zone give me a challenge.(One of the many reasons I uninstalled GW2 after a week)
Easy mode dungeons.
Time was you had to pick your path carefully. Now round everything up AOE it down and Snoopy happy dance cause everyone got a trophy epic.
Everything being tied down.
I personally would like to see a random 30% of mobs not be tied to one point. If you run past stuff and pull it some of them should follow you till someone dies. (Pick one you or them) Everything resetting takes danger out of the world. We all do it now in current games because we know there is no consequence for running through the woods.
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
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GodbrithilMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Alpha One
I absolutely don't like it when mmorpg's timers are built in to limit dungeon access. In addition, I find the casualization, i.e. the simplifications with the coming time always incredibly terrible... As soon as a few players complain when it gets too hard, the big garden shears come and make everything suitable for kindergarten.
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OrcLuckMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited June 2019
I hope faction grinding isn't done through boring quest grinds. I want either a dungeon or a series of dungeons to defeat to get a reward, or a series of conveys guarded.
I want either pvp or pve, to progress me, and I want it to be a fun activity you'd WANT to do anyway.
You should want to join a faction because its too fun not to.
Comments
In Retail WoW on the other hand, you are more limited by your skill as a player, since your character is practically a god that can kill 5-6 mobs no problem as long as you use your cooldowns properly. The result is that in Classic WoW the world is much more dangerous and you have to be a lot more careful, whereas in Retail WoW you are never really in danger unless you purposefully try to fight 10+ mobs at a time.
Formerly T-Elf
The only thing you really have to think about when creating a skillset in an MMO like WoW is in what order you want to use them but thats mostly just a one-time thing and after a few weeks of learning this once created combo there is not much skill into it
Managing cooldowns isnt exactly skillfull once you know your skills and their duration. I guess thats what a few people here also meant when they were talking about "skillfull gameplay"
In traditional HacknSlash you can put all your skill into a macro because there isnt any real skill but only a combo you loop
Classic WoW takes moer skill in that regard because you have to actually think about what you are going to do rather than how youre doing it as the how is more often than not just choosing one of a few loops to.. loop
Frostbolt -> Frostbolt -> Frostbolt until you either go oom or have too much threat, then get out your wand and shoot away.
Compare that to the Retail WoW Frost mage, which I can't be bother typing out so just refer to this guide:
https://www.wowhead.com/frost-mage-rotation-guide
There is no contest. That's why in Retail WoW you can have 2 players with the same gear using the same spec doing vastly different dps (sometimes up to 20% difference). In Classic WoW this difference is far less.And yes, knowing when to use your cooldowns is an important skill to master, particularly in mythic raiding. Using your big cooldowns at the right time and always having them synced up with you need them takes a lot of practice.
Is one harder than the other? Not really. I've said this before that comparing the difficulty of Classic WoW and Retail WoW is like comparing the difficulty between Chess and Starcraft2. Both present their own challenges to the player. Classic WoW challenges the player by giving them less tools to use and a generally weaker character, forcing you to think very carefully about each move you make. On the other hand, Retail WoW challenges the player by forcing them to learn to use a lot more tools in order to be effective.
Quests that have you helping someone build a "thing", and then not seeing that "thing" get built, even after 10 years. There is a Halfling in EQ2 that I helped find exhibits to put in his soon to be built museum way back in 2004, and 15 years later there is still no museum.
Daily quests, tasks or lockouts - or anything that makes players feel like they are missing out of they don't log in each day. I don't want the feeling of having to log in each and every day to any game, and that is all daily tasks actually seem to do. I'd be willing to accept a weekly count on things like this, as if I don't log in one or two days in a row I can easily make that up when I do get on.
The feeling of *having* to log in each day or you will fall behind leads to player burnout, so is bad for the games population in the long term.
I don't want to see any form of progression - other than PvP specific progression and contested fights - where another players actions can halt your progression for an extended period of time. This means that any contested kills needed for quests need to flag anyone involved in killing the encounter - even if they are not in the group or raid that gets loot from said encounter.
In a game like Ashes, if a group of players *can* block the progression of another group of players simply by maintaining a lock down on one rare spawn encounter, they *will* do that. The developers need to be sure that doing that isn't an option.
If we have limited ability slots, I don't want to see buffs use those slots up at all. With only 10 active abilities, I want 10 abilities to use during combat, not 3 buffs to cast pre-combat, a recovery ability for after combat, a utility ability and then only having space for 5 combat abilities.
Another thing I don't want to see are near worthless crafted consumables. Make them expensive if you have to, but make them worth using.
Having a bazillion daily quests, half of which are mundane and boring, is just an abusive way to encourage players to spend way too much time on the game.
Dailies are supposed to have the exact opposite effect. You're supposed to feel rewarded even if you only have an hour or two to play. And they're supposed to limit how much progress you can make from grinding after the daily bonus is gone, so that players with more time don't get too far ahead. And to a lesser extent, they encourage players to try different content because there's usually a daily bonus for each one.
So I think the concept of dailies is still valuable. Weeklies are probably better though, at least for players with inconsistent schedules.
Putting in a means to curb (though not halt) progression for power gamers is fine, just not at the expense of making people feel like they *need* to log in every day to keep up.
My understanding is that the servers for Ashes will go down for an hour or so each week (general maintenance and season changing iirc). To me, this would be the perfect time to reset a weekly count for lockouts and limited count quests.
I would much rather have a week to do one quest 7 times - or even 10 times - than one day to do one quest once. If I have a week, it is still limiting the power gamer, but it means that if a regular player can't (or doesn't want to) log on for a day or two, they are not penalized for it at all.
The power gamer may log in right after the server comes up and knock out all of their weekly quests in a few hours. This is fine for me, if that's what they want to do, they are welcome to it. The normal player though, the person working a 9 - 5, maybe with family commitments or such, then has the choice of doing a little bit each day, or maybe they can find one significant block of time during the week - any day that suits them - and either way they do it, they are able to keep up in terms of limited time questing. May be one night they do three or four, or may be they just do them all over the weekend, either way, it is still limiting how often these things can be done, but offers players a lot more freedom before they start missing out.
This allows players to not be penalized for taking their child to an activity, or take their significant other out for dinner and a show. Simple things like this keep players in a specific game much longer.
Sure, people that are away for a whole week will be missing out, but I personally think that's more than fair.
I haven't met a single mythic raider who said they enjoyed doing dailies, but they all do them because they have to. It turns the game into a chore where you have to log on every day with a list of things to do, not because you want to do them, but because you HAVE to do them in order to do the one thing you enjoy doing (raiding).
FFXIV has a daily dungeon finder roulette that follows the same principle. The rewards it offers you are required to remain competitive at end-game which forces you to do it every day even when the daily content itself is very boring. The problem with FFXIV's dailies is that they are necessary for the functioning of the game, since players are required to do certain dungeons in order to progress through the story. If the dungeon finder roulette didn't exist, nobody would queue for a dungeon after they had done it once, and this would stall newer players from progressing through the story.
@Joseline Just returning to this point, while looking on the wiki I found the following article for systems that are designed to combat power creep:
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Item_sinks
Dunno how effective it will be, if they do actually implement it though.
Dont forget that people mostly didnt know how to play in the first place. It was a lot of exploration of mechanics.
The legendary nerf of warriors ehich were considered garbage at the time was a great example. It needed just one guy showing how absolutly broken it was.
Hunters are another example the autoattack mechanic was a lot more skillfull then people expected. The broad mass didnt understand even way into burning crusade that you have to play around auto attacks. (Which is completely dumbed down and trivialized by now) you had to time every skill in a way that it doesnt interfer with auto attacks. Move stop attack in tact to not miss an auto attack.
Its hard to retroactively say >>in general<< wether classic was more or less skillfull then retail. People just didnt explore it fully at the time and using only frostbolt could have been one of those things that were done just because it worked.
Hunters would be one example tho that needed far more skill in classic then in retail.
I can be a life devouring nightmare. - Grisu#1819
Being honest here, I dont exactly understand how they combat power creep
When I read through the page I see a lot of "you have to invest in your weapons to keep it strong" but doesnt that just slow down the process? In the end players will have said EQ and new items will find their way into the game anyway
Is it about never allowing players to achieve acual "highest end" as they keep releasing new stuff before one gets to "highest end"? but wouldnt that be kind of frustrating too¿ Altough its an MMO there should be a point where you can say "I finished my EQ"
If anything I think FFXIV proves my point about how to do dailies correctly. They have weekly caps that prevent hard-core players from blasting through new content. And they have varied daily systems (including the weekly challenge log) that give the players options about what they want to do, without requiring you to do all of them if you didn't want to.
FFXIV lets you grind if you want, but it doesn't require you to. And it doesn't let you get way ahead if you do grind.
There (as I understand and guess from the information we have) won't be a level increase in the future. Content updates could provide new ressources to provide new stat combinations/stat weights for crafting,, without overwhelming the old items and that's basically it all you need to prevent power creep drivers.
Now that I wrote it I get the item sink link. You have to continually use materials to maintain your gear, but a long time ago it was said that those repairs will become more and more inefficent. I believe this wasn't rewoked. So at some point you will replace every piece of gear you have, even if it's with the same item, just freshly crafted. So you will never sit on the exact gear item forever. It doesn't prevent power creep, but the recycling will give you "new" gear with benefits (less repair costs) again, making it fresh and helpful without power creeping.
I can be a life devouring nightmare. - Grisu#1819
That you do better in combat with a pet, and cant choose to be stronger without pet. So if you don't like pets you are strongly disadvantaged. Or have a pet anyway and be annoyed.
Guns dont, fit in any medieval game. Cannon however can possible fit for sieges.
If I want to play with games i just play modern FPS instead.
Stress related quests,
have to do 1 quest each day for bigger reward at the end of the week, let people just do quest they haven't done or just appeared. The good if you dont have this people will associate the game with stress reliving fun instead of work, and be more enjoyable and can capture players for longer, and be more of a positive addiction. Instead of a negative one, which is detrimental to all parts of society.
Not something is annoyed but something is needed though I have no idea how to implement this, that players have to chat with each other, so the game doesn't seem dead. More fun when it is interactive, remember when I played my first MMO everyone was so talkative. Instead of dead silent.
A cosmetic skin, that makes it look better than it is, or worse for that matter.
Breaking the 4th wall.
If PvP is gonna be in a lot of areas around the world it is very annoying when you lose much of your items, or valuable items, + the travel time you got to do to get back to your location. So there need to be a balance. Or a proper balance.
1) Dailies - If there a ton of them and they are required for mainstream rewards. If they are extremely limited, do not coerce or artificially force daily logins, provide horizontal rewards, and are dynamic or varied (not the same each day) then it might be ok.
2) Holidays events - don't bring Christmas, Easter, and Halloween into a fantasy world. It's tacky.
To me, if the developers have an in game lore reason for a holiday to exist, AND the games calendar aligns with our calendar, then events like this would be fine.
If an event is supposed to be yearly, then why have 5 in game years past since it was last celebrated? If an event is supposed to take place during a given season, why is it taking place in the 3rd month this time, while last time it was the 8th month?
If I have 1 hour to play, I want to try a small dungeon, or gather some materials.
Otherwise if you have 1 hour of gameplay you just do what the game tells you to do, if you have 2, you still have to waste 1 hour doing a daily quest.
Dungeon finder > I don't enjoy it. It IS practical, but it does kill interaction. Yes, sometimes you just want to log in and do dungeons, but I hope they don't have it.
Higher levels > I don't enjoy content becoming irrelevant. Please add new content without increasing level. What is the reason to increase level? It brings nothing to the able. You can easily add new abilities without level. Or classes.
Anything that is time gated > I usually don't enjoy this. I remember GW2 having events that would last 1 week and you had to do all the achievements (if you wanted) or lose them forever. So for about a week, your GW2 experience would resume to a vicious circle of doing the same thing over and over until you got what you wanted, but without having a choice to stop doing it for a couple of days.
I would like it to be easy enough to be accessible to a large, diverse player base. But I definitely personally feel more accomplished when things actually take a little effort.
I agree that I don't want NPC dailies because we should be getting plenty of static quests from players and cities for materials to help with expanding or to help with supplies. Since we'll have "busy quests" that we can engage in from everything to help the local inn stock food to helping cities gather materials for building and upgrading I don't see NPC dailies as really having a place.
Lack of solo or small group content later in game. There should always be something to do if you can't get a full group or raid together even at high levels.
Empty cities. I know they are already planning that nodes degrade if people don't keep them up, but I hope it is fast enough that a city doesn't just hang around as a ghost town too long.
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All the classes need to be different. In the glory days of MMO's and RPG's all the classes were different and had different rolls. Now they are all the same.
Scaling.
I didn't invest countless hours leveling and working to become a badass just to have level 1 rat in the starter zone give me a challenge.(One of the many reasons I uninstalled GW2 after a week)
Easy mode dungeons.
Time was you had to pick your path carefully. Now round everything up AOE it down and Snoopy happy dance cause everyone got a trophy epic.
Everything being tied down.
I personally would like to see a random 30% of mobs not be tied to one point. If you run past stuff and pull it some of them should follow you till someone dies. (Pick one you or them) Everything resetting takes danger out of the world. We all do it now in current games because we know there is no consequence for running through the woods.
I want either pvp or pve, to progress me, and I want it to be a fun activity you'd WANT to do anyway.
You should want to join a faction because its too fun not to.