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Should players be encouraged to improved?

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Comments

  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    LieutenantToast wrote: »
    GrimHarlequin wrote: »
    I would like to see instanced content have some sort of story mode where you don't really get gear rewards outside of very basic and common stuff, but where more casual players could still say they've seen the content and seen the quest/story chain for everything even if it involves easier or toned down mechanics, but you shouldn't be rewarded for something like that outside of "Yeah I got to see the end of X quest chain or story."

    This is an interesting "best of both worlds" approach - leave the content challenging for those who are willing and able (as I know many of you will be :wink:), but have an option for those who are looking for more of the story/lore elements!

    Eh, WoW have tried to do this on a number of occasions with mixed results. One of the reasons why the LFR system was introduced was because players complained that they were missing out on the story that was locked behind "difficult" raid content. They argued that they had just as much right to see all the lore and story content, regardless of their skill level.
    volunteer_moderator.gif
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    wanderingmist wrote: »
    LieutenantToast wrote: »
    GrimHarlequin wrote: »
    I would like to see instanced content have some sort of story mode where you don't really get gear rewards outside of very basic and common stuff, but where more casual players could still say they've seen the content and seen the quest/story chain for everything even if it involves easier or toned down mechanics, but you shouldn't be rewarded for something like that outside of "Yeah I got to see the end of X quest chain or story."

    This is an interesting "best of both worlds" approach - leave the content challenging for those who are willing and able (as I know many of you will be :wink:), but have an option for those who are looking for more of the story/lore elements!

    Eh, WoW have tried to do this on a number of occasions with mixed results. One of the reasons why the LFR system was introduced was because players complained that they were missing out on the story that was locked behind "difficult" raid content. They argued that they had just as much right to see all the lore and story content, regardless of their skill level.

    They could make it that the "story mode" is only accessible after a number of groups/teams already cleared the raid/dungeon.
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 2019
    Damokles wrote: »
    wanderingmist wrote: »
    LieutenantToast wrote: »
    GrimHarlequin wrote: »
    I would like to see instanced content have some sort of story mode where you don't really get gear rewards outside of very basic and common stuff, but where more casual players could still say they've seen the content and seen the quest/story chain for everything even if it involves easier or toned down mechanics, but you shouldn't be rewarded for something like that outside of "Yeah I got to see the end of X quest chain or story."

    This is an interesting "best of both worlds" approach - leave the content challenging for those who are willing and able (as I know many of you will be :wink:), but have an option for those who are looking for more of the story/lore elements!

    Eh, WoW have tried to do this on a number of occasions with mixed results. One of the reasons why the LFR system was introduced was because players complained that they were missing out on the story that was locked behind "difficult" raid content. They argued that they had just as much right to see all the lore and story content, regardless of their skill level.

    They could make it that the "story mode" is only accessible after a number of groups/teams already cleared the raid/dungeon.

    Call me an old-school elitist snob but I believe that you have to earn the right to see the end of a story. I always found it awkward (from a lore and character perspective) that your character was called a hero for doing things that are pretty easy. Whenever I was praised by the game for doing something that took literally no effort at all, it just felt fake and undeserved. There was always this kind of disconnect between what my character did and what I, the player, did.

    If my character slays a dragon that has been terrorising the land, and yet all I did as the player was press 2 buttons, it doesn't feel earned. It makes it very hard for me to get immersed into the game when stuff like that happens.
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  • FerrymanFerryman Member
    wanderingmist wrote: »
    Ferryman wrote: »
    wanderingmist wrote: »
    arzosah wrote: »
    A seemingly unkillable boss especially if it's a world boss can exist as a goal for players to strive for, every player wanting to be part of the group to finally take down this big baddie that has been crushing every group that attempts it.

    This reminds me of the "unkillable" crystal dragon kerafrym in everquest. The players were so determined to kill it that they brought 3 mega guilds together (nearly 200 players) to slay the dragon.

    This made me thought, that in op, where you thinking this matter from instanced or open world point of view or more like generally? Because in open world it will be easier to handle with bosses just with raising numbers of players involved, unless there is some kind of mechanics which prevents outnumbering, but I can not see this would everytime be the case.

    The method of hand-holding might well change depending on the content that is being focused on, but the intent is the same. And as sad as it is, I hate to admit that from a business standpoint, hand-holding and artificially helping the players makes sense. When faced with a seemingly insurmountable challenge, players are more likely to quit than try to overcome the challenge the way it was originally intended.

    I can easily agree with that business point of view and I think your concern here is valid. If the raids are facerolls, that is not good either and people who focus on raiding will run out of content pretty fast. Same goes with extremely hard content as well and it can push people away to do something more satisfying. So I guess devs needs to aim somewhere between. I hope they won't hand hold too much and at the start not at all. They should give players some time to figure out the problem and later nerf the content if it turns to be too hard. That is the best solution imo.

    However, should all raids to be designed to clear by everyone? Straight away I think not, but prehaps later..
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • LyiatLyiat Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ferryman wrote: »
    wanderingmist wrote: »
    Ferryman wrote: »
    wanderingmist wrote: »
    arzosah wrote: »
    A seemingly unkillable boss especially if it's a world boss can exist as a goal for players to strive for, every player wanting to be part of the group to finally take down this big baddie that has been crushing every group that attempts it.

    This reminds me of the "unkillable" crystal dragon kerafrym in everquest. The players were so determined to kill it that they brought 3 mega guilds together (nearly 200 players) to slay the dragon.

    This made me thought, that in op, where you thinking this matter from instanced or open world point of view or more like generally? Because in open world it will be easier to handle with bosses just with raising numbers of players involved, unless there is some kind of mechanics which prevents outnumbering, but I can not see this would everytime be the case.

    The method of hand-holding might well change depending on the content that is being focused on, but the intent is the same. And as sad as it is, I hate to admit that from a business standpoint, hand-holding and artificially helping the players makes sense. When faced with a seemingly insurmountable challenge, players are more likely to quit than try to overcome the challenge the way it was originally intended.

    I can easily agree with that business point of view and I think your concern here is valid. If the raids are facerolls, that is not good either and people who focus on raiding will run out of content pretty fast. Same goes with extremely hard content as well and it can push people away to do something more satisfying. So I guess devs needs to aim somewhere between. I hope they won't hand hold too much and at the start not at all. They should give players some time to figure out the problem and later nerf the content if it turns to be too hard. That is the best solution imo.

    However, should all raids to be designed to clear by everyone? Straight away I think not, but prehaps later..

    Steven has gone on record to say that he desires some of the higher end raid-content to only have clear percents in the single digits.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Lyiat wrote: »
    Ferryman wrote: »
    wanderingmist wrote: »
    Ferryman wrote: »
    wanderingmist wrote: »
    arzosah wrote: »
    A seemingly unkillable boss especially if it's a world boss can exist as a goal for players to strive for, every player wanting to be part of the group to finally take down this big baddie that has been crushing every group that attempts it.

    This reminds me of the "unkillable" crystal dragon kerafrym in everquest. The players were so determined to kill it that they brought 3 mega guilds together (nearly 200 players) to slay the dragon.

    This made me thought, that in op, where you thinking this matter from instanced or open world point of view or more like generally? Because in open world it will be easier to handle with bosses just with raising numbers of players involved, unless there is some kind of mechanics which prevents outnumbering, but I can not see this would everytime be the case.

    The method of hand-holding might well change depending on the content that is being focused on, but the intent is the same. And as sad as it is, I hate to admit that from a business standpoint, hand-holding and artificially helping the players makes sense. When faced with a seemingly insurmountable challenge, players are more likely to quit than try to overcome the challenge the way it was originally intended.

    I can easily agree with that business point of view and I think your concern here is valid. If the raids are facerolls, that is not good either and people who focus on raiding will run out of content pretty fast. Same goes with extremely hard content as well and it can push people away to do something more satisfying. So I guess devs needs to aim somewhere between. I hope they won't hand hold too much and at the start not at all. They should give players some time to figure out the problem and later nerf the content if it turns to be too hard. That is the best solution imo.

    However, should all raids to be designed to clear by everyone? Straight away I think not, but prehaps later..

    Steven has gone on record to say that he desires some of the higher end raid-content to only have clear percents in the single digits.

    he also said he thought arch ages raid were hard :wink:
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • LyiatLyiat Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Nagash wrote: »
    Lyiat wrote: »
    Ferryman wrote: »
    wanderingmist wrote: »
    Ferryman wrote: »
    wanderingmist wrote: »
    arzosah wrote: »
    A seemingly unkillable boss especially if it's a world boss can exist as a goal for players to strive for, every player wanting to be part of the group to finally take down this big baddie that has been crushing every group that attempts it.

    This reminds me of the "unkillable" crystal dragon kerafrym in everquest. The players were so determined to kill it that they brought 3 mega guilds together (nearly 200 players) to slay the dragon.

    This made me thought, that in op, where you thinking this matter from instanced or open world point of view or more like generally? Because in open world it will be easier to handle with bosses just with raising numbers of players involved, unless there is some kind of mechanics which prevents outnumbering, but I can not see this would everytime be the case.

    The method of hand-holding might well change depending on the content that is being focused on, but the intent is the same. And as sad as it is, I hate to admit that from a business standpoint, hand-holding and artificially helping the players makes sense. When faced with a seemingly insurmountable challenge, players are more likely to quit than try to overcome the challenge the way it was originally intended.

    I can easily agree with that business point of view and I think your concern here is valid. If the raids are facerolls, that is not good either and people who focus on raiding will run out of content pretty fast. Same goes with extremely hard content as well and it can push people away to do something more satisfying. So I guess devs needs to aim somewhere between. I hope they won't hand hold too much and at the start not at all. They should give players some time to figure out the problem and later nerf the content if it turns to be too hard. That is the best solution imo.

    However, should all raids to be designed to clear by everyone? Straight away I think not, but prehaps later..

    Steven has gone on record to say that he desires some of the higher end raid-content to only have clear percents in the single digits.

    he also said he thought arch ages raid were hard :wink:

    Did you even try Serpentus? My guild never managed to even get that on grind.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Lyiat wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    Lyiat wrote: »
    Ferryman wrote: »
    wanderingmist wrote: »
    Ferryman wrote: »
    wanderingmist wrote: »
    arzosah wrote: »
    A seemingly unkillable boss especially if it's a world boss can exist as a goal for players to strive for, every player wanting to be part of the group to finally take down this big baddie that has been crushing every group that attempts it.

    This reminds me of the "unkillable" crystal dragon kerafrym in everquest. The players were so determined to kill it that they brought 3 mega guilds together (nearly 200 players) to slay the dragon.

    This made me thought, that in op, where you thinking this matter from instanced or open world point of view or more like generally? Because in open world it will be easier to handle with bosses just with raising numbers of players involved, unless there is some kind of mechanics which prevents outnumbering, but I can not see this would everytime be the case.

    The method of hand-holding might well change depending on the content that is being focused on, but the intent is the same. And as sad as it is, I hate to admit that from a business standpoint, hand-holding and artificially helping the players makes sense. When faced with a seemingly insurmountable challenge, players are more likely to quit than try to overcome the challenge the way it was originally intended.

    I can easily agree with that business point of view and I think your concern here is valid. If the raids are facerolls, that is not good either and people who focus on raiding will run out of content pretty fast. Same goes with extremely hard content as well and it can push people away to do something more satisfying. So I guess devs needs to aim somewhere between. I hope they won't hand hold too much and at the start not at all. They should give players some time to figure out the problem and later nerf the content if it turns to be too hard. That is the best solution imo.

    However, should all raids to be designed to clear by everyone? Straight away I think not, but prehaps later..

    Steven has gone on record to say that he desires some of the higher end raid-content to only have clear percents in the single digits.

    he also said he thought arch ages raid were hard :wink:

    Did you even try Serpentus? My guild never managed to even get that on grind.

    I cleared every raid in arch age and I dont have much to say about them
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
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