Nameless figure. If AoC is going to label everyone as a hero for stepping through the portal I can accept it in that context - being a hero for stepping up to settle a new land.
Definitely don't like being labelled a (traditional) hero who is destined to fulfil some task or prophecy from the start.
I know this is an old thread, but this is among the most important questions in an MMORPG for me, so I wanted to answer to maybe inspire some more discussion.
Please don't make us "the hero", it doesn't make any sense and immediately ruins immersion, even if it's a more entertaining story off the bat. Not everyone can be "the hero", and in an MMORPG, making the Player Character "the hero" means that everyone is. In my opinion, every MMORPG which use "the hero" archetype for their story significantly hampers their multiplayer aspect. It's weird coming out of a single player story to jump into a multiplayer raid and the NPC's somehow trying to recognize each player as "the one and only hero of X".
As for being "a hero" this is much better, but I still feel like it limits player choice in a negative way. The way this game is shaping out seems to be all about player choice. Why not let us become a hero in a meaningful way? Perhaps during a siege a particular player or group of players contributed far above what everyone else did. Recognizing them as heroes of the battle is far more meaningful and takes into account player decision during game play. If everyone defending during a siege is rewarded as a hero (via title, loot, etc.) even if they contributed very little, then the feeling of being a hero is, in my opinion, unremarkable.
One of the things I'm most excited for with Ashes is the classic design philosophy of making the players the end game. In my opinion, the hero narrative is more of a theme park design which tends to detract from this players-as-the-end-game philosophy.
It depends on what role the NPCs fulfill in the story.
In the case of games like WoW, FFXIV etc where some of the NPCs are the actual main attraction for the story, then I'm fine being a soldier helping them out.
But in a game like Ashes where seemingly there are no story relevant NPCs (heroes, antagonists etc) it would just feel like everyone is just a no one.
Even in our real world, there are people who would be considered main characters. I don't know that it'll be the case in Ashes. It'll all be just: the story advanced thanks to a mob of people. Thumbs up and carry on.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
As a story narrative in an mmorpg, do you prefer your character to be the hero of the land, or a nameless figure who is part of the larger group?
Why not both?
I prefer to be a Gardener who happens to know some Cleric spells.
I do like it when NPCs know my name. I don't necessarily want to be known as The Savior. I'd probably prefer that NPCs speak my active title.
I also wish we could get to a StoryBricks level of AI, where individual NPCs would have their own feelings about your actions.
Yours truly greatly prefers coming up with my own backstory, then basing the RP on actual events. My character was an Admiral of the Empire, in Star Wars: Galaxies - not just because I *said* so, though; I'd been a prolific events-host for a period of time, and it fit both the type of events that yours truly was hosting, AND the specific theme of our guild. Before all of that, he was simply an Imperial pilot-turned-shipmaker and manufacturer - since I had him joined with the Imperial Navy in the game, and then also made and sold ship parts. Any RP backstory for my toons in other games have also followed a similar development format.
I can understand the "everyone's a hero" approach though, since our actions in AoC are weighted and have influence the world around us. If you really want to, you can probably RP a hermit or a remote farmer, given the tools and buildings and setup that we know of, thus far.
I think my own trials and errors playing D&D taught me that its often more important to focus on how to build a distinct character personality and know how to roleplay that rather than developing a detailed story background at the start. I think people get more of a sense of a character from how they react and evolve in-game rather than their history which can be harder to make relevant in the moment.
A healthy balance between knowing there are many, many players in each MMO and still giving an effort to stake your name at the higher rungs at the ladder is possible, I believe. Bearing fruit and being recognized for it, whether by guild or on a larger scale, makes one a "hero" in some aspect.
That being said, I retract that statement if the proposed "hero" does it for selfish reasons (cue corrupted mention here, lol.) I believe there is a difference between artificially/actively seeking to be the hero, and organically/passively becoming a head-runner for your guild/people along the way. I think that as long as one does what they can and strives to be better (whether it be at PvP, gathering, etc.) with their group's success in mind, instead of just their own narcissistic fulfillments, I'd say that is commendable and deserving.
Whether by choice or not, and regardless the number of players per server, in all MMOs there are names that most know. The ones with such names normally either sought fame, or acquired it along their journey without actively trying. I think to each their own, but I'd rather strive for the larger group. If I increase my skills/leadership along the way so that I become a provider of top-tier impact in sieges, then so be it. If not, then it is all the same if my guild succeeds.
That being said, we all want something. . .
"It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other."
Definitely nameless bloke. This subject touch on why I would play solo in a MMO rather than play a single player game. I find being the centre of attention all the time or receiving special treatments annoying. If I'm the only one who can do something in the game story, because it was written so, it feels meaningless forgettable, no matter how difficult it was. In a mutiplayer world, all my choices, from picking a valueless flower to killing a mob, have some impact, they feel to have more weight.
Nameless figure - You make up your name by deeds within the world.
And story-wise or NPC wise, if there is no reputation system that can go up or down (meaning, for example, you help a tribe but the city folk hate you for it), then you're just "a person who decided to help someone in need", making it about "the thing" not "yourself".
I think the main issue of being a nameless nobody is what happens in-game after you have accomplished much.
You: I have travelled the entire world. Slayed dragons and elder gods. Brought low the tyrants and oppressors of the land. I've led armies into wars. I've built a trade empire. I've settled remote locations and raised metropolises.
NPC: Hi nameless adventurer, wanna help me kill these rats in my basement?
Being a nameless hero is fine, but the game would need to adapt to recognize you as the legend you become over time, otherwise it really feels like nothing you do matters to the non player denizens of the world.
I think the main issue of being a nameless nobody is what happens in-game after you have accomplished much.
You: I have travelled the entire world. Slayed dragons and elder gods. Brought low the tyrants and oppressors of the land. I've led armies into wars. I've built a trade empire. I've settled remote locations and raised metropolises.
NPC: Hi nameless adventurer, wanna help me kill these rats in my basement?
Being a nameless hero is fine, but the game would need to adapt to recognize you as the legend you become over time, otherwise it really feels like nothing you do matters to the non player denizens of the world.
All these impressive foes have respawned, so for the NPCs, nothing has changed...
I think the main issue of being a nameless nobody is what happens in-game after you have accomplished much.
You: I have travelled the entire world. Slayed dragons and elder gods. Brought low the tyrants and oppressors of the land. I've led armies into wars. I've built a trade empire. I've settled remote locations and raised metropolises.
NPC: Hi nameless adventurer, wanna help me kill these rats in my basement?
Being a nameless hero is fine, but the game would need to adapt to recognize you as the legend you become over time, otherwise it really feels like nothing you do matters to the non player denizens of the world.
You can also get around this problem by giving higher level quests low-level prerequisit quests.
Then it's more like, "oh yeah, you were the dude who helped me do ____".
Being a nameless hero is fine, but the game would need to adapt to recognize you as the legend you become over time, otherwise it really feels like nothing you do matters to the non player denizens of the world.
Oh, who cares what those rubes think?
Why should most NPCs know who you are? They get their news from what they think they understand from donkeys braying.
All kidding aside, your point has merit! It would make sense for the NPCs in your town to recognize you if you hold something like public office. Other games have done something similar.
“And when everyone’s super, nobody will be.” I understand the appeal of being the hero of an mmorpg, but when thousands of players are all the hero it just becomes boring and disheartening. Like in world of warcraft where everyone is the “champion” now and blizzard basically makes a single player story campaign to keep the player feeling like the hero. It’s like a sort of hero inflation. So I would much rather be the nameless figure, another person in the world than the hero.
“And when everyone’s super, nobody will be.” I understand the appeal of being the hero of an mmorpg, but when thousands of players are all the hero it just becomes boring and disheartening. Like in world of warcraft where everyone is the “champion” now and blizzard basically makes a single player story campaign to keep the player feeling like the hero. It’s like a sort of hero inflation. So I would much rather be the nameless figure, another person in the world than the hero.
I'd argue even then in WoW we sort of feel inconsequential. Yes we're actually the ones who killed X and Y, but the real story and the real interest revolves around the famous NPCs.
You might as well just be their bodyguard and then fade into the dark as they take the spotlight.
That's also why I noted earlier, that a large part of what the directions should be, would rely on how the world reacts to you.
It's awesome to be a nobody and build your legacy, but someone at some point has to recognize that you're a badass.
I would hope that titles earned, such as "Slayer of xyz" earned from completing a raid or "King of abc" for holding a castle against X number of sieges, would alter the NPC's dialogue and the type of quests they offer you.
I've already outlined what I think of "the hero" narrative in MMORPG's, but it looks like I forgot to actually say what I prefer, haha.
I like it when players can make a name for themselves, whether hero, villain, or anything in between. A name that NPC's might recognize in the story, as long as there is meaningful choice and we're not railroaded into a specific type of name. But more importantly, I feel like players should be able to make a name for themselves among the community. Ex: "First person to smith this legendary sword," "First group to take down this boss," "that mayor who screwed everyone over," "the leader of such and such guild," etc.
Both. NPCs and in-game lore shouldn't treat you as The Special One, for obvious reasons. But if I'm a member of a raid who slays a massive dragon, you're damn right I want some recognition for that. That recognition doesn't need to come from any NPCs or anything though - MMORPGs allow you to write your own stories, so if there's some kind of system in place that allows others in the server to know my name (an NPC in the main cities in WoW would shout your name after turning in the head of Onyxia if I remember rightly), that's a great way to foster a more natural, community-based feeling of reputation etc. Anything where the NPCs have to spell out how amazing and heroic you are is just forced and ultimately meaningless because they'll say it to any number of other players.
This game is heavily based on how the enviroment changes and that is why i think that the alterations in the world should create the story. Imagine a change of a frist biome would cause global warming, frost dragons attacking, some resources would be scarce, and also it could spawn a main boss npc. someone who would try to freeze the world again or even someone who would set it on fire and you as a hero get to choose what you will do and who will you join. And the best thing is that this game is supposed to have changing enviroment so the story would actually leave impact on the world and ppl would try to change it back. Guilds wiuld wage wars lonely players would join pvp to grab loot or sabotage ppl. It creates such a various chain of events it would rakr forever to even play through all of them. I could drop some ideas later if someone is interested.
Comments
Well not exactly because you haven't killed anyone yet in Verra. Perhaps a chance to redeem yourself. Think Australia.
Formerly T-Elf
you mean free labour for the glorious empire
Definitely don't like being labelled a (traditional) hero who is destined to fulfil some task or prophecy from the start.
Gotta stay low key.
Please don't make us "the hero", it doesn't make any sense and immediately ruins immersion, even if it's a more entertaining story off the bat. Not everyone can be "the hero", and in an MMORPG, making the Player Character "the hero" means that everyone is. In my opinion, every MMORPG which use "the hero" archetype for their story significantly hampers their multiplayer aspect. It's weird coming out of a single player story to jump into a multiplayer raid and the NPC's somehow trying to recognize each player as "the one and only hero of X".
As for being "a hero" this is much better, but I still feel like it limits player choice in a negative way. The way this game is shaping out seems to be all about player choice. Why not let us become a hero in a meaningful way? Perhaps during a siege a particular player or group of players contributed far above what everyone else did. Recognizing them as heroes of the battle is far more meaningful and takes into account player decision during game play. If everyone defending during a siege is rewarded as a hero (via title, loot, etc.) even if they contributed very little, then the feeling of being a hero is, in my opinion, unremarkable.
One of the things I'm most excited for with Ashes is the classic design philosophy of making the players the end game. In my opinion, the hero narrative is more of a theme park design which tends to detract from this players-as-the-end-game philosophy.
In the case of games like WoW, FFXIV etc where some of the NPCs are the actual main attraction for the story, then I'm fine being a soldier helping them out.
But in a game like Ashes where seemingly there are no story relevant NPCs (heroes, antagonists etc) it would just feel like everyone is just a no one.
Even in our real world, there are people who would be considered main characters. I don't know that it'll be the case in Ashes. It'll all be just: the story advanced thanks to a mob of people. Thumbs up and carry on.
I prefer to be a Gardener who happens to know some Cleric spells.
I do like it when NPCs know my name. I don't necessarily want to be known as The Savior. I'd probably prefer that NPCs speak my active title.
I also wish we could get to a StoryBricks level of AI, where individual NPCs would have their own feelings about your actions.
I can understand the "everyone's a hero" approach though, since our actions in AoC are weighted and have influence the world around us. If you really want to, you can probably RP a hermit or a remote farmer, given the tools and buildings and setup that we know of, thus far.
A healthy balance between knowing there are many, many players in each MMO and still giving an effort to stake your name at the higher rungs at the ladder is possible, I believe. Bearing fruit and being recognized for it, whether by guild or on a larger scale, makes one a "hero" in some aspect.
That being said, I retract that statement if the proposed "hero" does it for selfish reasons (cue corrupted mention here, lol.) I believe there is a difference between artificially/actively seeking to be the hero, and organically/passively becoming a head-runner for your guild/people along the way. I think that as long as one does what they can and strives to be better (whether it be at PvP, gathering, etc.) with their group's success in mind, instead of just their own narcissistic fulfillments, I'd say that is commendable and deserving.
Whether by choice or not, and regardless the number of players per server, in all MMOs there are names that most know. The ones with such names normally either sought fame, or acquired it along their journey without actively trying. I think to each their own, but I'd rather strive for the larger group. If I increase my skills/leadership along the way so that I become a provider of top-tier impact in sieges, then so be it. If not, then it is all the same if my guild succeeds.
That being said, we all want something. . .
Rise from the Ashes
And story-wise or NPC wise, if there is no reputation system that can go up or down (meaning, for example, you help a tribe but the city folk hate you for it), then you're just "a person who decided to help someone in need", making it about "the thing" not "yourself".
^^^^ Pretty much!
Your actions dictate whether you are a hero or a nameless farmer.
NPCs ain't gonna fight the corruption, we will.
You:
I have travelled the entire world. Slayed dragons and elder gods. Brought low the tyrants and oppressors of the land. I've led armies into wars. I've built a trade empire. I've settled remote locations and raised metropolises.
NPC:
Hi nameless adventurer, wanna help me kill these rats in my basement?
Being a nameless hero is fine, but the game would need to adapt to recognize you as the legend you become over time, otherwise it really feels like nothing you do matters to the non player denizens of the world.
All these impressive foes have respawned, so for the NPCs, nothing has changed...
You can also get around this problem by giving higher level quests low-level prerequisit quests.
Then it's more like, "oh yeah, you were the dude who helped me do ____".
Oh, who cares what those rubes think?
Why should most NPCs know who you are? They get their news from what they think they understand from donkeys braying.
All kidding aside, your point has merit! It would make sense for the NPCs in your town to recognize you if you hold something like public office. Other games have done something similar.
ᚺᛖᚨᚱᚦ ᛟᚠᚦᛖ ᛊᚺᚨᛞᛟᚹ ᛁᛗᛁᚱ
I'd argue even then in WoW we sort of feel inconsequential. Yes we're actually the ones who killed X and Y, but the real story and the real interest revolves around the famous NPCs.
You might as well just be their bodyguard and then fade into the dark as they take the spotlight.
That's also why I noted earlier, that a large part of what the directions should be, would rely on how the world reacts to you.
It's awesome to be a nobody and build your legacy, but someone at some point has to recognize that you're a badass.
I would hope that titles earned, such as "Slayer of xyz" earned from completing a raid or "King of abc" for holding a castle against X number of sieges, would alter the NPC's dialogue and the type of quests they offer you.
I like it when players can make a name for themselves, whether hero, villain, or anything in between. A name that NPC's might recognize in the story, as long as there is meaningful choice and we're not railroaded into a specific type of name. But more importantly, I feel like players should be able to make a name for themselves among the community. Ex: "First person to smith this legendary sword," "First group to take down this boss," "that mayor who screwed everyone over," "the leader of such and such guild," etc.
So that everyone else knows how speshul i r.