about those 'oversized swords'

leameseleamese Member, Braver of Worlds
Intrepid isn't a fan of such oversized swords, i still it is a missed opportunity.
An oversized sword can be nice and fun to work with.

it's big and heavy. So attacking would be very slow and powerfull. abilities might need longer time to cast and special abilities and effects can be made for those items.

"strong and big" doesn't mean heavy. With today's tech, specicial and rare metals are used to create ultra light but ultra strong materials. That's a candidate for a legendary sword. Think about aluminium, titanium, niobium and many more light but strong metals.

Maybe to yield such a weapon you need certain level or stats. I do see them having a place in MMO's.

Just my taughts. What do you think?
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Comments

  • JoselineJoseline Member
    I dont think they were talking about greatswords when talking about "oversized weapons" but about one handed swords with the size of a greatsword
  • leonerdoleonerdo Member, Settler
    I agree with Intrepid's notion that the giant swords in some MMOs can be too extreme and immersion breaking. But I also think big swords are cool. I mean, who doesn't like big-ass swords? So your idea for rare/legendary items, that maybe are a bit bigger than normal because of advanced materials (or magic or whatever) is an enticing idea.

    Big swords shouldn't be the norm, but I think there's room to push that envelope for exceptional weapons.
  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Leader of Men
    Not gonna happen. tumblr_otbtb2lwcF1smaam3o1_r1_500.gif
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  • AzathothAzathoth Member, Braver of Worlds
    An axe would make more sense to me, but I'm glad weapons like the ones above won't be seen (supposedly).
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    +1 Skull & Crown metal coin
  • noemadnoemad Member
    Not gonna happen. tumblr_otbtb2lwcF1smaam3o1_r1_500.gif

    Man I hope not.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds
    No.

    Big swords are good.

    Ridiculously huge swords that look like they weigh 3 times as much as the wielder are dumb.

    “But magic....” No. :unamused:
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  • DamoklesDamokles Member
    The problem with oversized swords is that most of the time they end up being semi paddles xD
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  • S3V3NTHS3V3NTH Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited June 4
    leamese wrote: »
    Intrepid isn't a fan of such oversized swords, i still it is a missed opportunity.
    An oversized sword can be nice and fun to work with.

    it's big and heavy. So attacking would be very slow and powerfull. abilities might need longer time to cast and special abilities and effects can be made for those items.

    "strong and big" doesn't mean heavy. With today's tech, specicial and rare metals are used to create ultra light but ultra strong materials. That's a candidate for a legendary sword. Think about aluminium, titanium, niobium and many more light but strong metals.

    Maybe to yield such a weapon you need certain level or stats. I do see them having a place in MMO's.

    Just my taughts. What do you think?

    I was actually thinking the same thing when I watched the live stream. I understand not wanting to put it in the game but it is a missed opportunity; and the excuse that it breaks immersion is "BS" to me. You can have magic, magical flying mounts, orcs, and elves but you can't rock a over sized sword because it breaks immersion and isn't realistic? There are tons of things in game that break immersion, just look at catfall boots. Why cant I apply that same magic to a half ton body slitter?
    Not gonna happen. tumblr_otbtb2lwcF1smaam3o1_r1_500.gif

    I am not saying this should happen but how are they going to stop people from make dwarfed size characters and wielding a great sword that is already in game. Unless they force all weapons to scale to the character's size or add some type of limit system that will not allow characters of smaller sizes to wield specific sized weapons, this could totally be a thing. As another example, say I am that dwarfed sized character and I kill a corrupted person 3 times my height on a bounty and loot there gear. As a result, I am able to gain the great sword that person was wielding, if they force the sword to scale to my size, would that not break immersion as well or will i look like the above :smile: ?
  • AzathothAzathoth Member, Braver of Worlds
    I think in some regards, being a Western MMO, this is an opportunity to not look like an Eastern MMO as not implementing over sized swords is easy to do. There will likely be a variety of weapons, some more common than not, unrepresented in Ashes. That's okay, not every possible weapon needs to be in the game. As a Castlevania fan I think having whips would be nice, but I don't expect to see them.

    Avoiding typical Anime tropes will help them keep an artistic aesthetic separate from current MMO's. This is, as always, just an opinion.
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    +1 Skull & Crown metal coin
  • amuriaamuria Member
    edited June 4
    Depending on what is seen as oversized I wouldn't write very large swords of the picture.
    A Zweihänder can go up to 213cm (84 inches) weighing up to 3.2kg(7.1 pounds) while the human size was declining from 173cm (68.27 inches) to 167cm (65.75 inches).
    To give better help to imagine that the sword is around 23-27% taller than you if you lived in that timeframe (1500-1700).
    This is of course also a bit questionable since Wikipedia isn't the most credible source but I won't do extensive research for a forum thread so this will suffice. It should be noted since there was only the up to range given the % will be smaller if you find the average Zweihänder size have fun searching.

    Point is swords can be fairly big in real-life AOC is very high fantasy so swords might be huge enough for people hoping for them to be happy and not too oversized for people disliking the aesthetic to hate it too much. I wouldn't lock it down to anime fairly sure other genres have similar to the same flaws.
  • DamoklesDamokles Member
    edited June 4
    @amuria
    I think they dont complain about large swords but over oversized swords.

    The difference is easy:

    Normal large sword:
    GZNOtTBQ7U.jpg

    Oversized Sword:
    afe9fbd63321f5607f7294fbc4865d5500858174.jpg
    10096.jpg
    ec7bbbfc3b3e662e9e5fd10ceac147b1de5a2a78.jpg


    One is still wieldable with experience, while the other weighs as much as the wielder or even more xD
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  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Leader of Men
    edited June 4
    @uniquelyd
    I am not saying this should happen but how are they going to stop people from make dwarfed size characters and wielding a great sword that is already in game. Unless they force all weapons to scale to the character's size or add some type of limit system that will not allow characters of smaller sizes to wield specific sized weapons, this could totally be a thing. As another example, say I am that dwarfed sized character and I kill a corrupted person 3 times my height on a bounty and loot there gear. As a result, I am able to gain the great sword that person was wielding, if they force the sword to scale to my size, would that not break immersion as well or will i look like the above :smile: ? [/quote]

    They have already said that armor will change to conform to your race. Loot orc armor as a dwarf, equip it and it will become the dwarven equivalent. So it will indeed change shape and size. They did this for various reasons, mainly the clipping issues of trying to match the various armor types to the various body styles. Not a big stretch that a dwarf character wielding an orcish greatsword will find himself holding a toothpick when he waves it around. What a cute little chibi you will be.
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  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited June 4
    It's an art choice.

    Intrepid is going for a Western Fantasy look, and the big "Buster" swords are very much an Asian art style.

    And honestly, this is reason enough for me.

    That's what they mean by "immersion breaking". It's jarring to the established art style. It's jarring to the established physics. It jarring to the established aesthetic.

    If someone is not going to play this game because they can't swing a 500lb piece of metal around, then they probably would nit-pick other reasons not to play regardless.

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  • flatlineflatline Member, Founder
    noemad wrote: »
    Not gonna happen. tumblr_otbtb2lwcF1smaam3o1_r1_500.gif

    Man I hope not.

    Dont tease me with a good time
  • RavudhaRavudha Member
    edited June 5
    For me, if I can clearly see my weapon, and it looks awesome, and in a crowd of players, the scene of them in armour with all their weapons is visually stunning, then it's a non-issue.

    Comes down to the aesthetics. You can simulate weapon swing speed etc. with regular big weapons.

  • vanqorvanqor Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited June 5
    I was incredibly happy when I learned this game would have no anime-looking, oversized weapons. The market is already flooded with these types of games. I understand a lot of people like it, but I don't, and I'm happy Ashes follows the "Western style".

    In context of this I also hope the are careful with the use of glowing effects, so that characters don't look like a bunch og christmas trees bunched together. They have said powerful weapons and legendary artifacts in particular will have glowing effects, but fingers crossed they manage to make them look special without overdoing it.
  • aundrewaundrew Member
    After the latest stream I grow increasingly concerned that weapons armor will be so gaudy as to make nothing seem legendary. Progression and displaying that matters. Seeing other players in epic gear, makes other players aspire to do what is required to get there. If everyone has great cosmetic legendary looking gear, it detracts from the sense of accomplishment and even glory! Of the feats required to get great gear. .. my opinion.
  • DamoklesDamokles Member
    @aundrew
    I just hope that the weapons and armour that they showed us will be mostly epic weapons and rare to epic armour tbh xD
    It is easy to create simple weapons etc, and they most likely want to show off the higher tiered items.
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  • leameseleamese Member, Braver of Worlds
    The weapons the made do look amazing. The one staff from the Dev Diaries series, And the "ice/blue" variant from what they showed in the stream has my liking :)
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder
    Maybe it's just because I've studied the physics behind huge weapons but there is no amount of "it's magic" that can convince me that a person can wield a huge weapons.



    As an example.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds
    Maybe it's just because I've studied the physics behind huge weapons but there is no amount of "it's magic" that can convince me that a person can wield a huge weapons.



    As an example.
    If magic is able to give the weapon some kind of antigravity capability, or give assistance in carrying it like telekinesis, then that necessarily changes the physics of the situation.

    But that’s a lot of explanation needed to explain something that in the end just looks stupid anyway. This isn’t an Asian MMO, don’t copy Asian MMOs.

    I assume we won’t have tiny girls in skimpy maid outfits with cat ears carrying giant weapons either.
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  • It wouldnt be the end of the world if there was one skin in the game for a big 2h sword.
    Why rage?
  • BraneGamesBraneGames Member, Braver of Worlds
    For me, so long as it makes sense I don't mind. If there are any particular races that from a lore perspective are able to wield big greatswords, then I see no issue with it. However, I would want those weapons scaled down if used by other races.

    So long as they are not ridiculously big and somewhat of a category for themselves (i.e rare) then it's fine, I just personally don't want to see the game turning into an Asian MMO shitfest with a tonne of unrealistic armor sets and weapons (within reason of course cause we are talking about a fantasy MMO)
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited June 6
    I don't think you need anti-grav or any fancy spells, you just need the materials, materials we don't have available in our world. If a weapon's usability comes down to its weight and balance then all you need is a material that is strong and light, similar to how mithril is described in Lotr. If you had the materials you needed to make a large but light blade with a heavier hilt and counterweight then in a fantasy setting, most of these weapons should be feasible to some degree.

    GZNOtTBQ7U.jpg

    If this weapon was used, then I'd think you could make a sword with the same blade but broader using a lighter material and you would end up with a similar weapon. It should feel the same to swing because the weight and balance are the same.

  • DamoklesDamokles Member
    @mcstackerson
    Do you know why no one in LotR made a giant weapon out of mithril? Not because it is too rare (yes it is rare but not that rare actually xD), no the reason was that a large weapon with light weight is useless. Yes you have reach, but the actual strongpoint of a zweihänder for example was that it could overpower and simply break other weapons (pikes) through its own weight.
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  • grisugrisu Member
    What physical law goes into effect when a...let's guess.. 5 ton dragon hit's you with his paw and prevents you from being instantly smushed in your armor and or thrown across the land ?
    I will never understand such reasons. Oversized swords won't be in the game for given reasons, I respect that. Do we really have to pul out long shot reasons for it?
    I can be a life fulfilling dream. Grisu
    I can be a life devouring nightmare. Zekece#1819
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited June 6
    @damokles
    My argument is the weight would be the same, you would just have a fatter blade. You would have the same force as the weight and length of the blade would be the same.
    I was using mithril as an example of a material that is not found in our world, one that is stronger than the metals we use but lighter. I also disagree, I'm pretty sure the reason we didn't see large weapons in Lotr is either an aesthetic choice or just tolken didn't think of it.
  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Leader of Men
    If the shitstorm that was the concept art for Stuffertons was any indication, they are not going to make anything that is too out there. We have earlier quotes of "no over-sized weapons" and the "realistic feeling." With all the other times the company has stepped on its own dick through unforced errors, why would they give fodder to the bleating masses.
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  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Braver of Worlds
    Yes, we know their chosen aesthetic but if you are going to make an argument I disagree with, why wouldn't I try to present my counter-argument. I'm not trying to change ashes, just saying I disagree with your argument.
  • JokucJokuc Member
    edited June 6
    I like oversized swords, the argument that they ruin immersion seems like bullshit to me as a regular swordsman can use super strength, fire attacks and all that magic shit anyway so why wouldn't he be able to swing a huge sword? But whatever, it's not like Steven is going to change his opinion anyway.
    it's not like I want a hug or anything, b-baka!
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